A friend is buying a 50 gallon drum of 109 octane racing fuel that he uses in his Porsche. We only have 91 octane available at the pump so he mixes it at about 1/3 109 octane 2/3 91 octane. I want to run some of this through my Q ('94) . Has anyone ran anything this high through their Q? Any comments on what would be a good mix ratio? Any thoughts on what 109 would do unmixed? Not going to blow off a head or something am I?
Thoughts?
109 Octane fuel
Re: 109 Octane fuel (qsiguy)
Higher octane than required generally doesn't make any improvement.
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heywier427
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Re: 109 Octane fuel (qsiguy)
my father buys sunoco 114 and 116 to sell out of his gastation i run the 114 when i go to the track it makes a hell of a difference. it pulls harder and runs cooler than 91or 93 but i am running it straight 5 gals at a time. i wouldnt worry about the heads. mines cracked due to over torqe and the silicon holds just fine
Re: 109 Octane fuel (qsiguy)
I can tell a difference between 87 and 91 so I'm sure 109 will be very nice. I'll run some and see how it goes.
I love the smell of racing fuel in the morning.
I love the smell of racing fuel in the morning.
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elwesso
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Re: (DJ E-Bam)
We can make an ECU program to run on high octane...
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BlackBirdVQ
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Re: (elwesso)
Its most likely LEADED gasoline which will kill your cats... at the same time it will gum up your injectors. Feel free to use it on rare occassions, but I wouldn't wanna run anything more than 104 unleaded (as high as they go) too frequently. It will do more harm than good.
C16 is the best stuff you can get... I used to run that on my SR20 when pushing 26psi on a stock bottom end in my G20.
Overall you will not see any gains from using any high octane gasoline, engine will run the same as it would on 93 octane gas. Only time you see gains is when you use piss poor gasoline and switch to 93 octane. Most cars are optimized from the factory to run on specific grade of fuel- our Qs are designed to run on 93 octane. So they tune the ECU with a mild tune just in case some poor idiot wants to pour 87 in the tank, that it doesn't detonate itself into pieces. If you use 100 octane gas or anything above 93 octane pretty much, you are wasting your $$$. Only way to take advantage of higher octane gasoline is when your engine is extenssively modified to require higher grade gasoline due to its tune or compression ratio. If you run boost, the cooler burning gasoline higher octane prevents detonation, as heat is what causes detonation in the 1st place. Highly advanced ignition timing will also require higher octane gasoline, as are lean burning engines. Like I said- higher the octane- the cooler the burn is. I witnessed that with VP C16 Race gasoline my EGTs on my SR20 where quite a bit lower at 22psi than they originally where with "regular" 93 octane Mobil gasoline.
I also found out that ALOT of BP stations around here sell 87 octane gas under the 93 pumps... I can tell right off the bat by looking at my EGT, and A/F as to what kinda crap the gas station tries to sell. I do not buy gas from any stations but my local Mobils, as I found out all BPs in this area sell junk gas- and some Shells do the same thing. I'm not the one to go out and test the gasolines knock threshold and rate its octane- but I know exacly how my car behaves with NON-93 octane fuel, and I have my trusty gauges and butt dyno to prove my point.
C16 is the best stuff you can get... I used to run that on my SR20 when pushing 26psi on a stock bottom end in my G20.
Overall you will not see any gains from using any high octane gasoline, engine will run the same as it would on 93 octane gas. Only time you see gains is when you use piss poor gasoline and switch to 93 octane. Most cars are optimized from the factory to run on specific grade of fuel- our Qs are designed to run on 93 octane. So they tune the ECU with a mild tune just in case some poor idiot wants to pour 87 in the tank, that it doesn't detonate itself into pieces. If you use 100 octane gas or anything above 93 octane pretty much, you are wasting your $$$. Only way to take advantage of higher octane gasoline is when your engine is extenssively modified to require higher grade gasoline due to its tune or compression ratio. If you run boost, the cooler burning gasoline higher octane prevents detonation, as heat is what causes detonation in the 1st place. Highly advanced ignition timing will also require higher octane gasoline, as are lean burning engines. Like I said- higher the octane- the cooler the burn is. I witnessed that with VP C16 Race gasoline my EGTs on my SR20 where quite a bit lower at 22psi than they originally where with "regular" 93 octane Mobil gasoline.
I also found out that ALOT of BP stations around here sell 87 octane gas under the 93 pumps... I can tell right off the bat by looking at my EGT, and A/F as to what kinda crap the gas station tries to sell. I do not buy gas from any stations but my local Mobils, as I found out all BPs in this area sell junk gas- and some Shells do the same thing. I'm not the one to go out and test the gasolines knock threshold and rate its octane- but I know exacly how my car behaves with NON-93 octane fuel, and I have my trusty gauges and butt dyno to prove my point.
This 109 octane is unleaded. They said it was their highest unleaded fuel. Not worried about the cats. Also not planning on running this stuff much at $6+ per gallon. Just wanted to give it a try. What do you guys know about adding octane booster to 91? That stuffs supposed to increase your octane # by 1 if I remember right. Is this a safe way to increase your # if 93 isn't available?
Re: (qsiguy)
Quite a few people here use the octane booster - I keep a few bottles in my trunk in case I end up somewhere with only 87 or 89. Here in Kato I can't usually find anything better than 91, but it seems to be ok.
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elwesso
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Re: (nchopp)
Octane booster is useless... It would take mayn bottles (5+) on one tankful to move itup just one point.
Re: 109 Octane fuel (MattB)
On a trip from Atl to NY, I filled up with Sunoco 94 somewhere in NJ and I felt a very noticeable difference. The Q was pulling like it had never pulled before and the engine felt like it was running under higher compression.MattB wrote:Higher octane than required generally doesn't make any improvement.
Too bad we can't get that stuff here in GA.
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Q45tech
- Moderator
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Re: 109 Octane fuel (DrewQ45)
"It would take mayn bottles (5+) on one tankful to move itup just one point."
Each point they refer to on the bottle is 0.1 octane point it would take 10 bottles for 1.0 point of octane increase.
The problem with oxygenates is that they [alone are already 109-114] thus they allow garbage gasoline to show up as 91 octane on the pump.What they never tell you is the BTU factor [heat creating energy]per gallon decreases by 3-5%............so while the octane might be ok the engine puts out 3-5% less real HP/torque and under light loads gets 3-5% lower MPG than non oxygenated fuels.............the above doesn't even consider any water that might get mix into oxygenated fuels.
Study phase separation: in a 10% ethanol blend up to 3.8 teaspoons [vs 0.15 teaspoons for pure 100% gasoline] of water can be contained in GALLON mixture at 60F. As the temperature goes down from 60F less water can stay in suspension.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/f...s.pdf
Each point they refer to on the bottle is 0.1 octane point it would take 10 bottles for 1.0 point of octane increase.
The problem with oxygenates is that they [alone are already 109-114] thus they allow garbage gasoline to show up as 91 octane on the pump.What they never tell you is the BTU factor [heat creating energy]per gallon decreases by 3-5%............so while the octane might be ok the engine puts out 3-5% less real HP/torque and under light loads gets 3-5% lower MPG than non oxygenated fuels.............the above doesn't even consider any water that might get mix into oxygenated fuels.
Study phase separation: in a 10% ethanol blend up to 3.8 teaspoons [vs 0.15 teaspoons for pure 100% gasoline] of water can be contained in GALLON mixture at 60F. As the temperature goes down from 60F less water can stay in suspension.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/f...s.pdf
One option for everyone no matter where you are is the airports. Standard aviation fuel is 100 octane "low lead" they call it 100LL. Cost ranges greatly but it's good fuel. The airport might make you put it in a can as they may not allow you to drive your car to the pump and the nozzle won't fit into the "flapper" hole anyway.
Here's a link to check avgas fuel prices around the country, just enter your CITY, ST and it'll pull up a list of matching airports. Check the 100LL checkbox.
http://www.airnav.com/fuel/local.html
Modified by qsiguy at 12:30 PM 12/15/2005
Here's a link to check avgas fuel prices around the country, just enter your CITY, ST and it'll pull up a list of matching airports. Check the 100LL checkbox.
http://www.airnav.com/fuel/local.html
Modified by qsiguy at 12:30 PM 12/15/2005
Re:
From Federal Trade Commission website:http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline...e.htm
The Low-Down on High Octane GasolineAre you tempted to buy a high octane gasoline for your car because you want to improve its performance? If so, take note: the recommended gasoline for most cars is regular octane. In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner's manual.
The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars.
Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money, too. Premium gas costs 15 to 20 cents per gallon more than regular. That can add up to $100 or more a year in extra costs. Studies indicate that altogether, drivers may be spending hundreds of millions of dollars each year for higher octane gas than they need.
What are octane ratings?Octane ratings measure a gasoline's ability to resist engine knock, a rattling or pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel-air mixture in one or more cylinders. Most gas stations offer three octane grades: regular (usually 87 octane), mid-grade (usually 89 octane) and premium (usually 92 or 93). The ratings must be posted on bright yellow stickers on each gasoline pump.
What's the right octane level for your car?Check your owner's manual to determine the right octane level for your car. Regular octane is recommended for most cars. However, some cars with high compression engines, like sports cars and certain luxury cars, need mid-grade or premium gasoline to prevent knock.
How can you tell if you're using the right octane level? Listen to your car's engine. If it doesn't knock when you use the recommended octane, you're using the right grade of gasoline.
Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.
Should you ever switch to a higher octane gasoline?A few car engines may knock or ping - even if you use the recommended octane. If this happens, try switching to the next highest octane grade. In many cases, switching to the mid-grade or premium-grade gasoline will eliminate the knock. If the knocking or pinging continues after one or two fill-ups, you may need a tune-up or some other repair. After that work is done, go back to the lowest octane grade at which your engine runs without knocking.
Is knocking harmful?Occasional light knocking or pinging won't harm your engine, and doesn't indicate a need for higher octane. But don't ignore severe knocking. A heavy or persistent knock can lead to engine damage.
Is all "premium" or "regular" gasoline the same?The octane rating of gasoline marked "premium" or "regular" is not consistent across the country. One state may require a minimum octane rating of 92 for all premium gasoline, while another may allow 90 octane to be called premium. To make sure you know what you're buying, check the octane rating on the yellow sticker on the gas pump instead of relying on the name "premium" or "regular."
For More InformationIf you're concerned about the accuracy of an octane label - or if you don't see a yellow octane sticker on a gasoline pump, write: Consumer Response Center, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, DC 20580.
The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit http://www.ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, identity theft and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
The Low-Down on High Octane GasolineAre you tempted to buy a high octane gasoline for your car because you want to improve its performance? If so, take note: the recommended gasoline for most cars is regular octane. In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner's manual.
The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars.
Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money, too. Premium gas costs 15 to 20 cents per gallon more than regular. That can add up to $100 or more a year in extra costs. Studies indicate that altogether, drivers may be spending hundreds of millions of dollars each year for higher octane gas than they need.
What are octane ratings?Octane ratings measure a gasoline's ability to resist engine knock, a rattling or pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel-air mixture in one or more cylinders. Most gas stations offer three octane grades: regular (usually 87 octane), mid-grade (usually 89 octane) and premium (usually 92 or 93). The ratings must be posted on bright yellow stickers on each gasoline pump.
What's the right octane level for your car?Check your owner's manual to determine the right octane level for your car. Regular octane is recommended for most cars. However, some cars with high compression engines, like sports cars and certain luxury cars, need mid-grade or premium gasoline to prevent knock.
How can you tell if you're using the right octane level? Listen to your car's engine. If it doesn't knock when you use the recommended octane, you're using the right grade of gasoline.
Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.
Should you ever switch to a higher octane gasoline?A few car engines may knock or ping - even if you use the recommended octane. If this happens, try switching to the next highest octane grade. In many cases, switching to the mid-grade or premium-grade gasoline will eliminate the knock. If the knocking or pinging continues after one or two fill-ups, you may need a tune-up or some other repair. After that work is done, go back to the lowest octane grade at which your engine runs without knocking.
Is knocking harmful?Occasional light knocking or pinging won't harm your engine, and doesn't indicate a need for higher octane. But don't ignore severe knocking. A heavy or persistent knock can lead to engine damage.
Is all "premium" or "regular" gasoline the same?The octane rating of gasoline marked "premium" or "regular" is not consistent across the country. One state may require a minimum octane rating of 92 for all premium gasoline, while another may allow 90 octane to be called premium. To make sure you know what you're buying, check the octane rating on the yellow sticker on the gas pump instead of relying on the name "premium" or "regular."
For More InformationIf you're concerned about the accuracy of an octane label - or if you don't see a yellow octane sticker on a gasoline pump, write: Consumer Response Center, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, DC 20580.
The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit http://www.ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, identity theft and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
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BadQ45t
- Posts: 3255
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'84 Nissan 300ZX (Original Owner)
'16 Mercedes Benz S550e V8 Power & 35 MPG - Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
the real caveat is to buy EXACTLY what the manu tells you to for your car. For example our Q's say Premium Unleaded Only, this is not because Nissan has stock in Standard Oil and Shell, it is because these are higher compressions engines and are not designed to run on them.
Now my wife's Sentra runs great on 87 and that is all it ever gets. Same thing with my new 05' X-Terra, in fact the service manager at the local Nissan dealer (who does know more than the average dealer I have spoken to) is totally designed for low-grade, Nissan specifically cranked up the engine size to 4.0 with only 265 horse (but lots of torque) so you would run it nicely on regular. Total waste to go any higher in either car. Now, my 84' 300ZX non-turbo was designed to run on what was unleaded in the day, but if I put anything lower than 89' it pings (only 158k on the odo, so some of the Q and J owners have more miles) and it runs better on super for whatever reason. There is a lot of debate about this subject on Z31.com, which is the best info site for Z31 (84-89 Z's) and many say they run better on lower grade, but not mine.
Overall I agree totoally with this, if you car rusn fine on low grade do it. But if it says Premium, pump the good stuff or buy a different car.
Now my wife's Sentra runs great on 87 and that is all it ever gets. Same thing with my new 05' X-Terra, in fact the service manager at the local Nissan dealer (who does know more than the average dealer I have spoken to) is totally designed for low-grade, Nissan specifically cranked up the engine size to 4.0 with only 265 horse (but lots of torque) so you would run it nicely on regular. Total waste to go any higher in either car. Now, my 84' 300ZX non-turbo was designed to run on what was unleaded in the day, but if I put anything lower than 89' it pings (only 158k on the odo, so some of the Q and J owners have more miles) and it runs better on super for whatever reason. There is a lot of debate about this subject on Z31.com, which is the best info site for Z31 (84-89 Z's) and many say they run better on lower grade, but not mine.
Overall I agree totoally with this, if you car rusn fine on low grade do it. But if it says Premium, pump the good stuff or buy a different car.
Re: (BadQ45t)
For a long time my wife ran the Q on 87 octane to save a buck or two when gas prices went up. After doing some work on it w/ on of my friends who races a boosted MR2, he started talking about effects it has on the motor. Now at first I hated the Q because every part cost a crap load and the motor looked like the inside of a laptop(all smooshed in there) After doing some work with my friend he started telling me about the potential this vehicle has. We were getting ready to sell it, but now I'm keeping this ride and gonna bring it back to life. WHOA off on a tangent............but yeah nothing but 92 at the pump and I throw in a octane boost every now and again. There is a pump in Honolulu at a 76 that has 101 at the pump. I just can't see driving 30 min to battle traffic for a tank.
Well, what do they mean by "Premium Unleaded" then? Some places have 93 as premium but where I am I can only get 91. Do they specify the octane number for the recommended premium? I get a slight ping using 91 ocassionally. I know this may indicate other issues but it's ever so slight and most people with me can't even hear it but my ears are good I guess. I don't hear it when I go higher octane like 91 mixed with 5 gallons or so of 109 octane. I imagine it would to fine with 93 but I can't get that anywhere near me that I know of.
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Q45tech
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Re: (qsiguy)
Yes Nissan wimped out by not defining the gasoline other than unleaded Premium and RON 95.
"Should have said the Q engine was designed to use a Special Lab Grade of Japanese gasoline......................our US testing in 1989 showed us it functioned tolerablely without much pinging but as always up to owner to search out and find acceptable gasoline or have some made to spec.
We think the injectors can last 70k but that why we have provided a warranty just in case we are wrong.
Our V8 technology is new to us [our engineers are bright and hardworking]but we have copied the world's best [right or wrong] [Mercedes chain guides] and tried a few tricks no one else had the guts to try.........why we are able to bring the highest NA torque per liter in a production engine to market in the new Q..............................we hope it works and last long enough for you to buy another Q..........anyway we'll have a new design in 1994 and 1997 and 2002.
Sayonara" and rots of ruck with our product
"Should have said the Q engine was designed to use a Special Lab Grade of Japanese gasoline......................our US testing in 1989 showed us it functioned tolerablely without much pinging but as always up to owner to search out and find acceptable gasoline or have some made to spec.
We think the injectors can last 70k but that why we have provided a warranty just in case we are wrong.
Our V8 technology is new to us [our engineers are bright and hardworking]but we have copied the world's best [right or wrong] [Mercedes chain guides] and tried a few tricks no one else had the guts to try.........why we are able to bring the highest NA torque per liter in a production engine to market in the new Q..............................we hope it works and last long enough for you to buy another Q..........anyway we'll have a new design in 1994 and 1997 and 2002.
Sayonara" and rots of ruck with our product