100 Octane Fuel

[VimyJ]

I just saw a report on PBS from the German car show "Auto Motor and Sport TV" about 100 octane fuel being developed for mass distribution in the German market.

Fast Facts:

3- 5% increase in torque especially in the low end (attention J30 lovers)

13% more expensive than regular premium

Based on F1 fuel technology

Power results from less friction due to higher anti knock and lower engine temperatures

Much less engine wear

[PalmerWMD]

Wow!

Talk about some "hi-chem"

Fred...:ylsuper

[agentxx39]

i use sunoco 94 is that good

[Q45tech]

Pure ethanol is 112 octane, pure MTBE is 109-111 octane..........average gasoline with out blending is around 85 on a good day.................10% oxygenates makes it 87.5

In theory you can have any octane you want, you just have to pay for the components.........the refinery cost between 87 and 92 is about 3.8 cents per gallon......even the delivered cost to a station is less than 10 cents difference.

Since the US volume of premium used is only around 15% compared to 85% for 87-89..........the incentive for stations to stock premium [pay for extra tanks] is the extra [20 cents -10 cent margin] per gallon charged to the public .

Generally the higher the octane the lower the BTU per gallon there fore the worse the mileage.......except that you can run a higher compression ratio which improves engine efficiency so under most conditions the decreased mileage is not noticed.

[bgilly]

Higher octane won't do anything for you unless you need it to reduce detonation, because that's all its good for. If you can get away with running 87 octane, you should. You'll make more power because it burns sooner. Running too high an octane will just reduce power for the same reason, it burns later in the combustion cycle. The only perk to high octane at most gas stations like Chevron is that they add more cleansing agents.

[maxnix]

Oh and as an additional note, I noticed that Costco adds detergent to their gasolines the other day. A notice also said that fuel delivery was constantly monitored and the pump filters were replaced when delivery rate was affected. Didn't quite explain how the filters also removed water from gasoline.

I found this somewhat comforting after a post in the G35 forum about a fuel pump that was totally destroyed by filling the car while the tanker truck was discharging into the underground storage tanks, disturbing an evidently large build-up of dirt and debris.

[VimyJ]

Higher octane won't do anything for you unless you need it to reduce detonation, because that's all its good for. If you can get away with running 87 octane, you should. You'll make more power because it burns sooner. Running too high an octane will just reduce power for the same reason, it burns later in the combustion cycle. The only perk to high octane at most gas stations like Chevron is that they add more cleansing agents.

As I understand the concept, higher octane allows for greater compression and lower burn temperatures which allows engine timing to be optimized. The engine runs cooler especially under high load and high rev conditions. This is a good thing. Also, especially for the J, is increased torque in the low rpms.

The two oil companies shown developing "Premium Plus" in the article were BP and Shell.

The representitives said that the fuel also allowed for better cold (not up to operating temp) engine performance. This struck me as odd but then I remembered something my brother told me. He lived in Germany for a couple of years. He told me that there is a strict law against idling IC engines. One cold morning, he started his car and then started scrapping the frost off the windshield. An old guy was walking by and yelled at him to shut the car off! And drivethrus? faaggedaboudit! Get in and go, I guess.

[bgilly]

It allows for greater compression, because without the higher octane detonation would occur. I don't know about the running cooler part though. If there is better cold start performance that is not because of the octane, possibly the other chemicals/additives they use.

[Q45tech]

The problem is what was the reference fuel used to derive the timing curves.......sure you can shift the curve up and down [via adjusting CAS] but the slope shape of the curve is built in - calculated from rules and sensor inputs.

Pump displayed octane is fairly meaningless since it is the average of two different tests [the Research Test is almost worthless on modern high compression engines] and guess which test the refiners attempt to increase because you can make this number higher CHEAPER.

A point of MOTOR OCTANE cost 2 to 3 times more to increase vs a point of Research OCTANE.

Without a lab you don't know what is better, some 91 octanes may react better with your car than some 93 octanes and the converse may be true.

The differences in regular vs premium conventional gasoline are very small as to the BTU per gallon on the order of 1-1.5-2%.Reformulated and oxygenated are where the real lower numbers are 5-7%.

By the way factory engineers optimize the HP peak rpm [ignition advance and fuel injector timing] and hold these values constant to redline..........the engine gets richer and richer and richer from HP peak to redline [as the air flow diminishes] the timing gets under and under and under advanced due to richer mixture.

Once JWT removes half the oem safety factor to gain what ever torque and HP numbers they get, the program continues to lean fuel and advance timing all the way to redline.........This is why the JWT ecu feels more powerful and keeps feeling powerful all the way to fuel cut off.From HP peak to redline 2 more degrees of progressive advance [over and above how much was added at HP peak] and an additional 5>8>10% less injection time is needed to squeeze out the max gain.

All this assumes that the gasoline you buy today is the same as the gasoline that was used to calculate the numbers 13 to 8 years ago.

[EWT]

Some 76 stations around here already sell 100 octane out of the pump. I usually run a 50/50 mix of it and 91 octane in my boost increased Supra. You might get a slight performance increase in a stock Q out here since the alternative is 91 octane oxygenated swill, but it wouldn't be worth the $2 a gallon extra cost. If you have 92/93 octane available, it's very unlikely you'll gain any power with it.

[Q45tech]

Just try all the 93 -91 octanes assuming you live in an area where there are two tank farms otherwise the octane is probably the same base product..[plus whatever if any detergents the tank truck adds on the fill up leaving the terminal].........only the chemist at the tank farm knows for sure what's what and where which refinery it came from. They could care less as its all supposedly the same product but they may known which is worse than the others but it varies by day.........the garbage gets mixed with the better stuff in hopes that it all turns out ok.

Luckily most engines are pretty tolerant!

[Chally]

Quote » The two oil companies shown developing "Premium Plus" in the article were BP and Shell. [/quote]Funny you should say that, here in Australia, Shell & BP are selling 98 octane fuel. The BP seems to be the better of the 2, & it is a must in the Q. Compared to the 95 octane premium fuel, it leaves it for dead.BP's 98 octane is called Ultima & Shell's is called Optimax. If you check the Aussie fuel sites, you can get some technical bull & you, q45tech, may be able to make some sense of it.

[Q45tech]

Because it cost almost one penny per gallon to haul 5,000 gallons [in a tank truck] of gasoline 20 miles in normal traffic, you can be assured that almost all stations get their gasoline from the closest tank farm.

Count the number of tanks at the typical farm with 3 grades plus diesel and 3 aviations and boat fuel, plus kerosene..............its easy to see that not anyone [any NAME brand] has their own tranks. Lots of smaller tanks that hold the secret ingredents [detergents] but they sell those to other brands if they run out the day before the slug arrives [these additives usually come via train tank cars from refineery or other manufacturer.

If the additives cost $2.50 per gallon [delivered to tank farm] and you use 1/2 percent it adds 1.25 cents per gallon to the marketed bulk gasoline............to make the wonder gasoline.

Whereas adding a $5 bottle [12 oz] of techron to 20 gallons in your tank adds 25 cents per gallon.

I really would like to see a REAL ULTRA product but there are no tanks to hold it anywhere in the local distribution channel even if they made it.

No wonder real racing gasoline cost $4-6 gallon and you have to pick up your own 55 gallon drum at the supplier.

[Chally]

We have had an overhaul in fuel quality here, and our Diesel is now "World Standard". As for the Ultra fuels, they are 10c per Litre dearer, that's about 40c per US gallon.They are different fuels here, as the sulphar content has been reduced to nearly zero%, under 5ppm, whereas the standard fuel & premium are still up to & over 500ppm.

I'll try & do more research about what they do, from some insiders I know.

We have 2 companies that make fuel. Caltex & Shell, & they are in Sydney.