10 % e85 mixed with 93 octane

[ka-t 300]

I was wandering if you mixed say 10% e85 with 93 octane that has less than 10% would that like raise your octane rating ? or could you put 20% with it to make a difference ?

[eazye2000]

Just noticed you live not that far from me.

Anyways. I think you would have to do some math to figure out what percentage it really is of ethanol. If that's what you're ultimately looking for. Or are you looking for the total octane rating?All I know, is that the more Ethanol you put into your fuel, the richer you have to run your car since the AFR's are different between Ethanol, and Gasoline. It really helps to have a wideband that has a Lambda setting. Everything on Lambda is 1 for perfect stoich. Just shy a hair either way for preferred AFR's for Turbo/NA.

I don't know if I answered your question. I've already started drinking and it's not even 5pm...

Ok, looked at your question again. I think E85 Ethanol, is 108 octane out of the pump. So 10% Ethanol to 90% 93 fuel would net you almost 95 octane. (1 gallon E85 to 9 gallons of 93 octane)If you ran 50% E85 with 50% of 93 Gasoline, you would get almost 101 octane Gas-o-hol. (I think Gasohol is the correct term when at 50/50 mixture)But when you start to increase the percentage of Ethanol, you have to increase your fuel delivery. It takes more Ethanol per combustion cycle to create a more stoich mixture.

If someone can help me, I would really appreciate it. I hope I answered your question for you.But is it cost effective? I have no idea. I used to buy gallons of Toulene and Denatured Alcohol to make my own octane boosters. Cost me like 80 dollars for 10 gallons of 110 unleaded basically. Not worth the hassle.

Edit:So I read your question again. lolWhen they put Ethanol into our gasoline, the end result is 93 octane (I'm using 93 for my base). That means the gasoline could have been 87 in the beginning. When you add Ethanol, or E85 to an already established number (octane), you effectively increase the octane rating a slight bit.

There, hope that makes sense.

[GTR PrYdE]

Like Eazy said, you'd have to richen it up, why not make the switch to E85?

If it's not practical, I don't know that it'd be worth it, since you'd have to push the car to see if it works, and with such crappy knock control our ecu's have, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so.

[ka-t 300]

Just noticed you live not that far from me.

Anyways. I think you would have to do some math to figure out what percentage it really is of ethanol. If that's what you're ultimately looking for. Or are you looking for the total octane rating?All I know, is that the more Ethanol you put into your fuel, the richer you have to run your car since the AFR's are different between Ethanol, and Gasoline. It really helps to have a wideband that has a Lambda setting. Everything on Lambda is 1 for perfect stoich. Just shy a hair either way for preferred AFR's for Turbo/NA.

I don't know if I answered your question. I've already started drinking and it's not even 5pm...

Ok, looked at your question again. I think E85 Ethanol, is 108 octane out of the pump. So 10% Ethanol to 90% 93 fuel would net you almost 95 octane. (1 gallon E85 to 9 gallons of 93 octane)If you ran 50% E85 with 50% of 93 Gasoline, you would get almost 101 octane Gas-o-hol. (I think Gasohol is the correct term when at 50/50 mixture)But when you start to increase the percentage of Ethanol, you have to increase your fuel delivery. It takes more Ethanol per combustion cycle to create a more stoich mixture.

If someone can help me, I would really appreciate it. I hope I answered your question for you.But is it cost effective? I have no idea. I used to buy gallons of Toulene and Denatured Alcohol to make my own octane boosters. Cost me like 80 dollars for 10 gallons of 110 unleaded basically. Not worth the hassle.

Edit:So I read your question again. lolWhen they put Ethanol into our gasoline, the end result is 93 octane (I'm using 93 for my base). That means the gasoline could have been 87 in the beginning. When you add Ethanol, or E85 to an already established number (octane), you effectively increase the octane rating a slight bit.

There, hope that makes sense.

LOL yeah we live like 50 miles apart. any way it was just a thought. sounds like water meth inj. is the way to go then, i was just tryin to get around buying it and then the hassell of installing it. thought i would just use somthing like that insted of buying 100 octane . but as you say sounds like its not cost effective.

[eazye2000]

Not cost effective, and tuning for it isn't super easy, but do-able.

Also, when the bastards add ethanol to our fuel and make it '93' octane, they don't tell you that your vehicle/motor requires more fuel to make the mixture stoich.This is why alot of 2-strokes have been blowing up around the country. They are sensitive to air/fuel ratio's. It may be 93 octane, but the alcohol/ethanol requires a bit more fuel to burn stoich. Therefore the stock/gasoline settings are leaning it out, making it hot, and poppin' them. This was happening alot in New England with the snowmobiles. Some say the concentration of ethanol was higher in the fuel shipped to the north east, but that's speculation.

That's all I got.

[WDRacing]

The most effective way to add octane to your pump gas is by using toluene as an additive. That's what they use from the "factory" to raise it. It can be found at ACE Hardware and paint stores. Toluene adding won't jack up your AFR's. It's not cheap however...

The most cost effective way to kill knock is with water injection. A very small nozzle triggered by a Hobbs switch will kill any knock you currently have or allow you to add a few degree's of timing or boost.

Switching to E85 just isn't that viable for 90% of the country.

Another thing people rarely take advantage of is propane. I've been doing some decent research on how best to incorporate propane as a sub-injection for 3-4 years now. Propane has a minimum octane of 110 and when it flows from the tank it "boils" like nitrous and turns to a gas. The gas is not quite a cold as nitrous, but it's damn cold. So you get a cooling effect on the entire intake manifold as well as the added 110 octane. It also completely burns during combustion and when mixed and compressed with the air fuel mix it allows for a far more complete burn of the pump gas. This increases the power output and reduces emission output. It's an effective way to reduce carbon emissions in fleet vehicles and works so well that it almost eliminates the blow by factor that turns our oil to crap. It's an awesome chemical that is rarely used.

The results I've seen when data logged have allowed for not only increased boost but also increased timing while showing zero knock count. When using just a single nozzle setup a tank the size of a normal grill version lasts 2 months. That's $24 for 2 months of high octane capability. Hard to argue against all that

I suppose Eric or I will have to be the guinea pig as usual...lol.

[eazye2000]

I suppose Eric or I will have to be the guinea pig as usual...lol.

Yessir. Already dabbling in it as we speak!

Ok, imagine your gas grill and the regulator that plugs onto the tank. 99.9% of homeowner grill regulators are preset for 1 psi of pressure or less. And they aren't variable. The knob on the tank wouldn't suffice for such a small change especially at 1 psi of flow.

That said, me and my buddy with a '95 F-350 with the 7.3L PowerStroke have been playing with the propane. Particularly because propane has been proven time and time again with the diesels. Being new to propane injection, we have been playing around with his truck.

Ace Hardware, (or maybe other stores), sell a 20lb propane cylinder regulator that allows a max of 10psi of flow, and the regulator is adjustable with a knob. It's particularly used for large shop heaters, or furnace's that require a larger amount of flow/pressure to operate. Needless to say, we acquired this device..

Ran a tube through the firewall to the filter tube just in front of the turbo. Meanwhile the 20LB cylinder is chilling in the backseat just behind the center console. (it's not illegal in FL to ride with 20LB or less compressed cylinders inside your vehicle, thank god)

Anyways, with this rig setup at cruising speed, the diesel makes 4-6psi of boost. The propane injection causes a crap ton lower EGT's too. Wide open throttle there is a big difference. It helps his truck is a 6 speed so we can feel the little differences in power. It's not a speed demon, but it pulls nasty hard.

Ok. Now with all that said, the ideal setup would to get a solenoid to put inline and activate it with a hobbs/pressure switch. This is something we don't have at this point, and because of this, we will not be putting a 20LB cylinder in my car.. lol What sucks, is that a nitrous solenoid will not flow enough I don't think. I have some air brake solenoids off the garbage trucks that I work on, so that might be an option soon.

Sorry for the speech. If anyone wants pictures of details, I'll snap some. I will definitely log the project if it's crossed over to the KA.

[WDRacing]

Just use nitrous solenoids and nitrous nozzles so you can tune it via jet size. You could never run your BOV vented again...lol.

[eazye2000]

Damn, I didn't think about venting the BOV.. lol See this is why we started with the diesel..

I'm going to check the local craigslist for some NO2 parts. Someone has to have something laying around. I really need to delete my A/C, and P/S if I'm going to be throwing more crap into the engine bay.. ugh.

[ka-t 300]

You 2 are cracking me up lol . I would put the 20 lb. tank in the trunk it would make a good tracktion weight . thats what they do on fork lifts, and it would even the the front and rear weight back out from adding the turbo stuff in the front of the car!!!! Souds like you have some thing going though. (Propane injection ) sounds pretty good to me!!!! . Figuire out a way to put the propane in a nitrous bottle and and no one will know. or just paint the 20 lb. bottle blue and put a nitrous lable on it !!!!! I can see that we could have a lot of fun with this..

[WDRacing]

Propane can only go into a certified propane bottle as per federal law

Trunk mounting is the only real way to do something like this. Use 2 solenoids, 1 wet nitrous nozzle so you can have 2 tunable jets and 2 hobbs switches to activate the solenoids and you have a decent 2 stage propane injection set up.

The motor this is being used on has to have NO vacuum leaks as a leak will result in propane escaping under the hood, which is obviously a bad thing

[eazye2000]

Leaky couplers, and a vented BOV would definitely be bad news.

When I get my new setup buttoned up, I will be heading over to see Mr Enthalpy himself to do a gasoline tune, and an E85 tune. After that, I will be looking at putting the propane injection onto the car. If I don't get the stuff on my car first, propane will be the next project to fiddle around with.