07' M45, 22,000mi = Oil Consumption Test

[M4T5]

A few days ago my wife got into our M45 to go to the store. I was in the garage when she went to start it up. (Keep in mind it was sitting for almost 2 days).When it started, blue smoke engulfed the garage and smelled horrible. My wife shut it off and called a wrecker to tow it in to Infiniti. (Her Choice). I told her she could just drive it in, but she refused.The car barley has 22K on it. I checked the oil almost 2 months back and noted the oil level was a tad below the high dot. I checked it before the wrecker picked it up, and it was a tad above the low dot. I've never owned a vehicle that was under 100,000mi that burned oil.

The techs changed the oil & filter and tagged the filler cap, dip stick, and drain plug to start a 1,000mi interval oil consumption test.

My service adviser said the tech believes it is burning too much oil. They also let it sit for two days before restarting it. The tech confirmed it expelled excessive blue smoke from the exhaust upon start up.

My questions are:

1. What are the requirements to fail this oil consumption test???

2. If it does not fail this test, what manufacture states exhausting blue smoke out the exhaust pipes and using 2-3 qts of oil between 3,750-4,000mi oil change intervals is normal? I say NONE! Not a vehicle with very low mileage and still within the manufacture's factory warranty!

3. What can I do if the dealer tells me my car "burns oil" (What a joke!) within Infiniti's recommended specs??

I find this very embarrassing to say the least. I honestly feel I chose the wrong manufacturer to buy from at this point. The car is great and all, but if it cannot be dependable or not go without having major mechanical failures before it reaches the manufacturer's factory warranty period, then a vehicle in my opinion is not worthy to be sold to any consumer!I say this because I am not the only one with this issue with the older and newer body style M45 or an Infiniti that uses the 4.5L engine.

Why didn't they correct the 4.5L engine's oil consumption issues after 2004??Ifiniti obviously knew there was a problem with their 4.5L engine using excessive amounts of oil between oil changes before bringing back the newer M45. WHY DIDN'T THEY CORRECT THIS!!!!!!!! Even if they drop a new engine in my car, I cannot and will not find myself satisfied with Infiniti's products anymore. If they refuse replacement, then my attitude will only get worse from there with Infiniti reps and their consumer customer service dept.

THIS IS MY FIRST & LAST INFINITI PRODUCT.........

J

[tigerclaws1318]

What I did is record videos of the vehicle starting up and just show it to the dealer how much smoke is coming out the exhaust. They said a puff of smoke is normal but I'll prove to them its not no tiny puff. I get a cloud of blue smoke everytime I start my car.

[M4T5]

Mine will puff a few seconds if it only sits for 8 hours. If you let it sit for a day or even two, it will engulf my garage with smoke.

Even a puff of blue is NOT NORMAL by any circumstances! This is once again just an Infiniti cop out!This is there reasoning to screw the customer and save money! They WILL BE REPLACING MY F*CKING ENGINE! I'm tired of these big companies screwing the little people!The hell with Infiniti!

J

[tigerclaws1318]

http://s139.photobucket.com/al...3.flv

This is how much smoke comes out after 12 hours of sitting. Does yours look like this?

[New2Import]

What I did is record videos of the vehicle starting up and just show it to the dealer how much smoke is coming out the exhaust. They said a puff of smoke is normal but I'll prove to them its not no tiny puff. I get a cloud of blue smoke everytime I start my car.

Thats what Im doing. Im also pissed. I think the problem lies in the PCV system putting oil in the intake. I could be wrong but something is wrong.

http://s139.photobucket.com/al...3.flv

This is how much smoke comes out after 12 hours of sitting. Does yours look like this?

MIne is like that.

[M45Runner]

Well, mine did that once after sitting for 2 days and have not done it since - Have had it sit for 3-4 days at times and still not doing it. So, I am not sure what caused it to puff blue smoke that time.

Also, I have been checking oil levels and it has been fairly consistant - after 3k miles, the oil level are the same - at lease I can not visually tell there is a difference from the mark on the dip stick.

But, the general accepted rule (I am not saying it is right) is: If the engine consumes less than 1 qt per 1000 miles, it is acceptable. So, I don't know if Infiniti is willing to do anything if the consumption rate is lower than that.

Good luck though.

[M4T5]

Well, mine did that once after sitting for 2 days and have not done it since - Have had it sit for 3-4 days at times and still not doing it. So, I am not sure what caused it to puff blue smoke that time.

Also, I have been checking oil levels and it has been fairly consistant - after 3k miles, the oil level are the same - at lease I can not visually tell there is a difference from the mark on the dip stick.

But, the general accepted rule (I am not saying it is right) is: If the engine consumes less than 1 qt per 1000 miles, it is acceptable. So, I don't know if Infiniti is willing to do anything if the consumption rate is lower than that.

Good luck though.

My oil level drops. Consuming close or just less than a quart per 1,000mi is UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!I didn't remember reading this in the owners manual! Maybe you or Infiniti could point this note or caption in the owners manual for me.I will have to call bulls*** on them and their poor quality workmanship.

Blue smoke upon start up only is due to bad valve seals!! Consistent blue smoke during normal engine operation is the piston rings!!

Think about it for a second. If the blue smoking upon start up increases over longer sitting times, that means the oil is leaking "DOWN" into the combustion chamber. The only thing above the combustion chamber is the heads, spark plugs and valves.The longer it sits, the more oil that will leak past the valve seals into the combustion chamber. More oil=More blue smoke.

The oil cannot leak "UPWARDS" through the piston rings. In theory at least. But then again with this engine, who knows........

J

[M4T5]

http://s139.photobucket.com/al...3.flv

This is how much smoke comes out after 12 hours of sitting. Does yours look like this?

Mine is like that as well. It emits A LOT more if it sits for more than 24hrs. With my garage door up, it still filled the entire garage and lingered for 10-15min.

Infiniti better fix my car correctly! It should NOT smoke at ALL!!!!!

J

[New2Import]

Well mine doesnt do it all the time either. It might even do it after a couple of hrs of sitting and sometimes it doesnt. Its not suppose to either way. My level want drop til around 1700 miles and Im at 800 of my oil test.

[tigerclaws1318]

My car hasn't been started up in the past 48 hours and it was a gorgeous 80 degree weather so I decided to take my camera out and record another video. It doesn't seem like much smoke came out this time but there are times where it was a huge cloud of smoke just from sitting overnight.

http://s139.photobucket.com/al...0.flv

[M4T5]

I'm not sure about yours, but mine will puff blue smoke every time it sets for more than 6-8hrs.

I really don't think Infiniti knows what to replace obviously if they replace the long block assembly for this issue when it is very apparent that the issue evolves around the heads or emissions control system that has to do with the PCV valve system.I only know of factory and aftermarket turbo or supercharged engines that pull oil from the PCV system into the intake manifold, thus causing oil consumption.Though they do not smoke upon start-up.I'm 95% certain this issue has to do with a fault in the heads and not with the piston rings.I wish someone else with extensive engine knowledge would chime in on this issue.

J

[New2Import]

I'm not sure about yours, but mine will puff blue smoke every time it sets for more than 6-8hrs.

I really don't think Infiniti knows what to replace obviously if they replace the long block assembly for this issue when it is very apparent that the issue evolves around the heads or emissions control system that has to do with the PCV valve system.I only know of factory and aftermarket turbo or supercharged engines that pull oil from the PCV system into the intake manifold, thus causing oil consumption.Though they do not smoke upon start-up.I'm 95% certain this issue has to do with a fault in the heads and not with the piston rings.I wish someone else with extensive engine knowledge would chime in on this issue.

J

They dont smoke because they put in line oil separators in the PCV system. I had to do that on my 383 SS NA. The compression is so high it pulls oil. And yes on start up it would smoke. Well I installed the oil separator and no more blue smoke. When I pat the gas you can see the air and oil mixture go through the separator. At WOT its just air. It idles better and drives better now. You can actually see the oil consumption now in the separator. I have to drain it ever 500-1000 miles depending on how hard I drive.I think with this engine being so high compression it is doing this. Its not no rings. If it was it would smoke all the time. It could be valve seals and thats something else to look at. If you go back and smell on start up the smoke smells of emissions. After my test depending on the outcome I will be install a separator.

[M4T5]

You said you did install a separator. What did you install it on if it is not on your M45?Your post is a bit confusing I guess.

J

[fiveliterbeater]

3. What can I do if the dealer tells me my car "burns oil" (What a joke!) within Infiniti's recommended specs??

I find this very embarrassing to say the least. I honestly feel I chose the wrong manufacturer to buy from at this point.

Why didn't they correct the 4.5L engine's oil consumption issues after 2004??Ifiniti obviously knew there was a problem with their 4.5L engine using excessive amounts of oil between oil changes before bringing back the newer M45. WHY DIDN'T THEY CORRECT THIS!!!!!!!! THIS IS MY FIRST & LAST INFINITI PRODUCT.........

dam brother, i can feel your frustration through your posts; i just wanna say that all they are going to do is replace your motor under warranty like they did for me. mine was replaced do to excessive oil consumption. i as well thought that this problem would have been fixed by infiniti but guess not.

[New2Import]

You said you did install a separator. What did you install it on if it is not on your M45?Your post is a bit confusing I guess.

J

On my SS. When they replace my engine on the M Im installing one on the M.

dam brother, i can feel your frustration through your posts; i just wanna say that all they are going to do is replace your motor under warranty like they did for me. mine was replaced do to excessive oil consumption. i as well thought that this problem would have been fixed by infiniti but guess not.

Are you having any problems out of the new engine? How many miles since the swap?

[ken in az]

I wonder if switching to a thicker oil could reduces the consumption issue.

Has anyone ever tried switching to 10-40 oil as a fix?

[fiveliterbeater]

Are you having any problems out of the new engine? How many miles since the swap?

i have 13k miles on the new motor since the swap and everything is running good.

[New2Import]

Well, mine did that once after sitting for 2 days and have not done it since - Have had it sit for 3-4 days at times and still not doing it. So, I am not sure what caused it to puff blue smoke that time.

Also, I have been checking oil levels and it has been fairly consistant - after 3k miles, the oil level are the same - at lease I can not visually tell there is a difference from the mark on the dip stick.

But, the general accepted rule (I am not saying it is right) is: If the engine consumes less than 1 qt per 1000 miles, it is acceptable. So, I don't know if Infiniti is willing to do anything if the consumption rate is lower than that.

Good luck though.

I went in for my first 1K and my stick barely showed any consumption but it really doesnt show til around 1500 miles. I told the tech about the blue smoke and he said that was only on the 35s...well I pulled out my camera showed them the videos I have taken and that got the big dogs involved and the ears are raise about this situation. He got on the phone with a engineer. Im forwarding the videos (if I can get them to down load...takes forever). Manager told me we had to finish the test but something will be done about the matter. I guess it helps to have Nissan Headquarters only a few blocks away.

[M4T5]

Keep me up to date, because I may need these guys names and contact numbers to get head way with mine.

Either way, the techs seen the blue smoke my car emits when it starts. So that's already noted. To me, the test will be just a waste of time. I will not stand for my car smoking when started. Not with just 22,000 miles on the odometer.That's a lack of engine quality that only leads to a lack in reliability and longevity!Infiniti...get a clue! Your engines are poorly built! There are no other excuses!

J

[New2Import]

Calm down. The tech I talked to says it has to be valve seals thats bad. Well see from the out come what it is.

[M4T5]

Calm down. The tech I talked to says it has to be valve seals thats bad. Well see from the out come what it is.

There is nothing to really be calm about to be honest. This is not just a random occurrence. It seems to be becoming a common problem with the M45 engines once again. When you have a service record showing head or long block assembly replacement, it lowers your resale value to a consumer or possible buyer.This is not what I would have expected from a luxury branded vehicle.I was having better luck with your common domestic and foreign vehicles when it came to ride quality and reliability. The only downfall was the exterior and interior styling.At this point I now could care less about the luxury features and styling my M45 has.

By the way, I already diagnosed it being possibly the valve guides and seals.This is common knowledge learned many years ago.I already posted that in an above post in this thread.The thing about it is, maybe Infiniti techs are not experienced enough to replace just the heads alone.This may be why Infiniti has them replace the entire long block assembly.

I'm just very discouraged with Infiniti at this point of ownership (Which has only been a few months).

J

[ken in az]

M4T5 - the new trend is to replace a defective unit with a new unit, albeit a transmission or engine.

What happens - under warranty that is - an engine consumes too much oil. The tech diagnoses it, the manufacturer covers it under warranty, and the fix is to replace the engine with a new one. The old engine is sent back to the manufacturer where it undergoes further diagnostics to determine the true cause and or failure and incorporate this knowledge into the new engines in the future hopefully to make the new engines better.

at least that's what's supposed to happen. Kinda like Six Sigma only japan style. They do this with the transmissions as well, if it doesn't work, and the cause of the problem is not easily fixed, time for a new trans and the old one is shipped back to the manufacturer.

Oh yeah, if durring the inspection by the manufacturer determines it to be the consumers fault, guess what, that consumer has to front the bill - ouch

[fiveliterbeater]

There is nothing to really be calm about to be honest. This is not just a random occurrence. It seems to be becoming a common problem with the M45 engines once again. At this point I now could care less about the luxury features and styling my M45 has.

I'm just very discouraged with Infiniti at this point of ownership (Which has only been a few months).

J

.....hey bud, i think New2import is right; i think you are taking this situation a little too serious. YES it sux that our cars have this flaw, but again, it's not the end of the world and besides, your acting as if you just blew 100+ plus thousand dollars on an exotic car that you were planning on keeping the rest of your life. cars aren't meant to be kept forever otherwise car manufacturers would go out of buisness. our situation is kinda like the situation the 98-01 BMW M5's went through with their VANOS failure. and their situation was one that BMW said they would'nt even consider fixing. and for about the price of 2 M45's you can buy 1 BMW M5. i'd be even more pissed if i had spent 80-85k on a car only to know that a few years later the car would give me major problems. i'm not going to go into details but if you do a GOOGLE search on VANOS failure, read some of the horror stories M5 owners went through.

i think you have a right to be mad, but be glad that Infiniti is listening and taking action to help us out. again, my long block assembly was replaced under warranty due to excessive oil consumption, and my new motor has 13k on it with no problems.


Modified by fiveliterbeater at 1:41 PM 4/22/2009

[New2Import]

How low on the dip stick was your oil after the 3K test fiveliterbeater? Mine will right below the first hole after 1500 miles.

[fiveliterbeater]

How low on the dip stick was your oil after the 3K test fiveliterbeater? Mine will right below the first hole after 1500 miles.

mine was just a little worse; it was about 2 mm above the halfway point, but i couldn't make it in untill my car hit the 1700 mile mark to get it checked.

[New2Import]

I let mine sit for 2 days and went to start up. No smoke. This is very weird....

[ken in az]

Mine has 45k mi on him right now and I regularly flog him when I drive.

What are your guys' driving habits/style? I've always found that if you run these nissan engines hard, they like you better in the long run. It's the engines that are babied that I've seen problems. Running them hard gets the rings out of the groove, babying tends to let the rings gum up in the groove in the piston allowing excess blowby. Also running them hard when they are cold can cause cylinder wall damage. The most common form of this abuse is to start the engine cold and rev the piss out of it even before their is sufficient oil pressure let alone allow for piston expansion.

Not saying that's an excuse at all, just noting some observations. Of course you still need to have your regular maintenance done.

Hope they can figure it out, and M4T5, with only 22k on the clock I'd say you still have plenty of warranty left so if it is bad now, it will only get worse so if they don't warranty the engine now, they probably will later.

[New2Import]

I drive it hard at times. And every car Ive ever own it warms up at least 5 min on every cold start up. No need to baby this car while driving. You may be on to something. I dont think its as bad as it seems now. because if you have a problem it would smoke every time on start up and while driving. Im right at 29K and I think the oil consumption comes from the PCV system like I said at first. Im taking videos on every start up I can and let the techs figure it out. Heck the engine is not even broke in good yet!

[ken in az]

I drive it hard at times. And every car Ive ever own it warms up at least 5 min on every cold start up. No need to baby this car while driving. You may be on to something. I dont think its as bad as it seems now. because if you have a problem it would smoke every time on start up and while driving. Im right at 29K and I think the oil consumption comes from the PCV system like I said at first. Im taking videos on every start up I can and let the techs figure it out. Heck the engine is not even broke in good yet!

The PCV vents excessive blowby which goes back to my post about the rings and cylinder wear.

[fiveliterbeater]

I've always found that if you run these nissan engines hard, they like you better in the long run. It's the engines that are babied that I've seen problems. The most common form of this abuse is to start the engine cold and rev the piss out of it even before their is sufficient oil pressure let alone allow for piston expansion.

...thats funny how you mention this cause i always always let my engine have a 2-3 min warm up time (depending on how cold it is out side) and then i drive it normally untill i find an opportunity to "over-floor it", and then i redline when i can and then go back to "normal" driving.