06 m35x owners: how's your manual shifting experience?

[InfinitiMe]

I had an EX35 (08 I assume) as a loaner last week for a few days and I have to say the manual-shift was far superior to my Ms. The EX redlines at 1000rpms higher but the most notiecable difference is how shifting is just so much more accommodating. The EX has no problems with you shifting in quite a wide range of RPMs, while my M will jump and stutter unless you hit it pretty much perfectly within a very small range (doesn't really apply from 4th to 5th but everywhere else). The EX was also friendlier on down-shifting.

I'm getting to the point where I'm using the manual setting all the time but can't help but envy the system in the EX, and also be disappointed that a luxury sedan has an inferior system to a cheaper, mini-SUV. I understand though that the cars are 2 years apart.

[antzrus]

"Luxury sedan." I think you said it all right there. The M is such a beast. Luxury sedans are known for their automatic transmissions-the pseudo "manual" shifting ability is just that; pseudo.

In 1970 I had a Datsun 2000. Now there was a smooth manual shifting beast!!

[szh]

In 1970 I had a Datsun 2000. Now there was a smooth manual shifting beast!!

I'd say the same for my 1985 300Z Turbo!

Z

[InfinitiMe]

"Luxury sedan." I think you said it all right there. The M is such a beast. Luxury sedans are known for their automatic transmissions-the pseudo "manual" shifting ability is just that; pseudo.

In 1970 I had a Datsun 2000. Now there was a smooth manual shifting beast!!

Can't argue with that I guess haha. Just wish my pseudo was as friendly as the pseudo on the EX. I really enjoy using the manumatic.

[elmatador]

yea dude, the manual shifts do jerk. I hate how it does that.

[palincal]

M's manual shifting is not very practical. The response is lousy. The downshift is automatic so if you happen to downshift just after the automatic downshift, you end up with two downshifts.

Upshifting is a pain too. It is again semi-auto. Won't let you upshift even if you are just a wee bit short of power. Also, with such a quiet and smooth engine, I sometimes forget to shift from 4 to 5. Can't improve MPG unless you get the complete hang of when to shift without looking at the dash. Too much hassle IMHO.

[SteveTheTech]

The key differences between the EX and original M are the engine the M35x uses the VQ35DE and the EX uses the newer VQ35HR (High Rev) with magnetic retarders controlling the exhaust cam angle in addition to the hydraulicly controlled intake cams that the M uses. This allows for mmore percise control over the valve overlap and increases the power band. The transmissions are pretty similar they both use Jatco RE5R05A which is a great transmission but given the fact that it is still a true automatic shift delay will always be there. If it had a dual clutch (GT-R sytle) it would be improved but IMO they had a compromise for long term durability over sport shifting capabilities. They are still fun to drive and the manual mode is a great way to get out some frustrations.

Take a look through the FSM (AT section) at around page AT-34 for the shift control logic, that may give you a better idea of what I am trying to explain.

[EniGmA1987]

M's manual shifting is not very practical. The response is lousy. The downshift is automatic so if you happen to downshift just after the automatic downshift, you end up with two downshifts.

Upshifting is a pain too. It is again semi-auto. Won't let you upshift even if you are just a wee bit short of power. Also, with such a quiet and smooth engine, I sometimes forget to shift from 4 to 5. Can't improve MPG unless you get the complete hang of when to shift without looking at the dash. Too much hassle IMHO.

My car isnt like that at all... The only time my car will take back control and shift for me is when I hit the 7000rpm limit which is above the redline, or if I go under 1000rpm. If your car wont lety you shift when you want and still shifts for you then you have a problem with your sport mode.

[BigP]

I have had my M45 sport for 6 weeks and while I'm still getting used to the manual mode I think it works well. I agree with the last poster. I think you may have an issue that needs attention. Mine seems to shift well with no experiences like you are describing. Good luck!

[InfinitiMe]

Steve,

Thanks for the technical insight!

M's manual shifting is not very practical. The response is lousy. The downshift is automatic so if you happen to downshift just after the automatic downshift, you end up with two downshifts.

Upshifting is a pain too. It is again semi-auto. Won't let you upshift even if you are just a wee bit short of power. Also, with such a quiet and smooth engine, I sometimes forget to shift from 4 to 5. Can't improve MPG unless you get the complete hang of when to shift without looking at the dash. Too much hassle IMHO.

I wouldn't call mine lousy, just finicky. But I also experience the 2 downshifts and unable to shift up if I don't have enough power. However I have an X, so I assume that's how it's supposed to work for me.

Having said all this I have accepted the challenge of mastering the manual shifting and I am getting better at hitting it in the sweet spot for a perfectly smooth transition, even when i don't have a lot of space in front of me.

Once I hit traffic or the 20-25mph residential streets though I just let the auto do its thing, as I can't shift any higher than 3rd.

[palincal]

My car isnt like that at all... The only time my car will take back control and shift for me is when I hit the 7000rpm limit which is above the redline, or if I go under 1000rpm. If your car wont lety you shift when you want and still shifts for you then you have a problem with your sport mode.

I was talking abt early upshift and late downshift. M won't allow you to upshift too early if the power is not sufficient. Similarly, if you want to coast in 5th gear for a bit longer, it will automatically downshift to 4th at abt 30MPH. Doesn't leave much margin to save gas vs. driving in auto mode.

If one wants to use M's manual mode for performance driving as opposed to saving gas, it is a pretty good manual system.

[ArbitrageMan]

Take a look through the FSM (AT section) at around page AT-34 for the shift control logic, that may give you a better idea of what I am trying to explain.

Where is this? I want to read it!

[ArbitrageMan]

As someone who has driven a stick all his life, and vowed never to buy an automatic, I like this transmission. My god, we also have an RX350, and whenever I drive it Im so thankfuly that I have my car; that thing is forever hunting for a gear!

I also think that when I drive in manual mode, I drive it like I used to drive a stick. Im not not redlining it. Im not trying to mash the gears. I just use manual mode to prevent upshifting, so that I have power when I put my foot down. If you're racing around in a stick, the changes arent going to be smooth either.

Also, the downshift rev-matching, Im a fan.

But I will conceed that the shifts are slow somtimes, I think you just have to anticipate that, and be in the gear you want well before you need the power.

[SteveTheTech]

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/M/2006_M45-M35/at.pdf - AT section of the 06 ESM, they are all basically the same. I think if you understand the theory behind the operation allot of misconceptions will be resolved. There are limitations to the systems that some of you may think are problematic but that has allot to do with adding manual gear selection to an automatic that doesn't actually use "gears", bands and clutches yes but no gears (helical cut manual style direct gears).

Have any of you driven an Acura with triptronic shift? They shift out of first before the da*n thing hits V-tech. They retain almost all the control over shift points but give you the feeling of actually controlling it.

[mjlyn]

I agree with other posters that Palincal might have some problem with his transmission.

Mine works fine. Shure it won't let you upshift into 5th at 25mph and 1200rpm but you shouldnt be trying to go to fifth then anyway. At any reasonable speed mine will upshift fine.

And regarding the double downshift.....mine downshifts on its own at exactly 1000rpm. I think most of us downshifting manually are going to shift at higher revs than that. If i am just coasting up to a stop, i know it will downshift automatically and i just let it. But if i am downshifting to be in the power band exiting an offramp or something...im gonna shift way before i drop to 1000 RPM.

I love the rev matching too.....

I had a 2004 BMW 530i. The manual shift mode on it shifts about the same as the M. Same delay. It has a sport mode where if you moved the lever left it was still in automatic mode but would shift at higher revs and would wait longer before upshifting if you eased off the gas. Kept you in a lower gear as you let off the gas in corners etc. Once you moved the lever forward or back it went into manual mode like the M.

Now the thing that made me nuts was that on the BMW pulling the lever shifted up and pushing it shifted down. Opposite to what the M does. For me that was counter intuitive and it made me nuts. I did not use it much but when i did i always had to "think" before i shifted.

I also had a 2005 Acura TL. That transmission...except for the rev matching....felt exactly like my M