05 Q VK45DE ? About oil starvation/failure

[O5Q45]

I recently read in the M45 forums about 06+ VK45DE engines with the new oil pan that's deeper to prevent and *fix oil consumption issues. It looks as if I agree with the theory that it was cheaper for Nissan to change the oil pan instead of rearticulating the motor. I paid for a technical paper from SAE on the design of the new high power V8 from Nissan which included a few engineers that created the VK from the VQ and yielded 28% power increase over the VH. I've read the only way to tell is if the starter is on the driver side or passenger side of my VK motor as to if it is one of the new oil pan design motors. The original design the starter should be on the passenger side. I'm hoping like hell with my production date of 12/04 that I have the original design. I've switched to Royal Purple hoping to prevent failure as I'm approaching the average failure mileage for most... 100-120k. Although after reading bobistheoilguy website I think I'll go with Motul 300V as the WRX forums UOA from the labs are amazing for lack of wear and metal content.. so, where in the FSM would starter location be? Or anyone know? I'm under the assumption I can't just see it by the cost of replacement.. hoping Edbwoy will chime in here as he authored the original M45 thread-

[EdBwoy]

Man, it's weird how I'm attracted to oil consumption threads and general engine failure.

IIRC the Q45 stuck with the old design to the end of production.
Look at the FSM section EM, where the engine assembly is exploded and it gives you an idea of where it goes due to shape.
Or the FSM section SC, where it tells you how to remove the charger. The only reference I have here is that the power steering tubes are on the back side of the rack.
Or just go under the car... but I have pictures of all years of the VK45DE engines at home that I was looking at for comparison.

On oil consumption, as long as you keep up with your changes/top ups this shouldn't ever get to a catastrophic level with your car. My belief is that all VK45DEs burn oil, just gotta stay on top of it.

Also, I believe I saw some chatter on the M forums (probably someone with an M35) that they had bad luck with Amsoil specifically as it is consumed too fast. Synthetic works for a lot of those who use it, although I'm more of a Dino oil with frequent changes guy.

You've piqued my interest. Would you mind sharing that technical document that you obtained on the engines?

[O5Q45]

I'd be happy to send you the PDF if you could give me somewhere to send it.. I have tried every way possible to copy and paste it here and or attach.. no go..

[O5Q45]

We're all the VK motors not produced at the Tochigi plant? If so or if not, why would there be any variants for the VK45DE that goes in the Q45 or the M45 or the FX45? Why would the Q VK not change but the M VK did? Back to my original ?; same plant, same production...?

[O5Q45]

I'll forward it to anyone who wants to see it- it discusses the tech and process to quiten and reduce noise and vibration from previous VH.
The silent chain vs the old
The complicated air induction
The variable valve timing
The lightweight parts made of aluminum and titanium
The exhaust manifold after running it through the CAE system.
And statistical data VK vs VH
And how the VK is not a remade VH but a remade VQ-
[email protected] email me and I'll forward the PDF to you-

[EdBwoy]

We're all the VK motors not produced at the Tochigi plant? If so or if not, why would there be any variants for the VK45DE that goes in the Q45 or the M45 or the FX45? Why would the Q VK not change but the M VK did? Back to my original ?; same plant, same production...?

Just like you, I have more questions than answers.
Hopefully that's an answer I will be in better shape to provide after reading the tech document, haha.

[O5Q45]

If anyone can tell me how to paste a PDF file here to the forum; I'll be glad to post the tech paper. It is on the SAE website "Development of new high performance Nissan V8"
Www.SAE.org in the "advanced engineering"or "technical" papers.

[O5Q45]

Yes all the cars and motors were made at the same plant in Tochigi province.. which is why I'm not sure how different VK engines landed in the Q than the M I.e. Oil pans... they should all come off the same line as far as VK production. Mitsubishi supplied alternators and starters and electrical systems such as the CAN system. Hitachi supplied electronic throttles, and Bosch supplied safety equipment such as ABS and Slip/VDC system. I admit I have a lot of time on my hands and enjoy the research! Also, look up Infiniti Pro Series circa 2002.. our stock VK motors were used on the track at Indy! But the Q's VK limited electronically to 151mph...

[EdBwoy]

It wouldn't post as a URL? Thats how ive linked to the FSM in some of my posts, unless the SAE security/propriety system prevents that.

On the cars, remember that the 2003-2004 m45 was considered a placeholder. I'd assume the engines were made for the flagship Q and someone thought they'd give America a powerful midsize car, just to shake it up. And they threw it into the crossover/SUV as well.
As to why they made the slight changes to the engines, that baffles me too. But I'm sure all sights were on the new M45 built on the FM platform as early as 2002. Funny thing is that there's nothing in the 06+ M that would need the engine shape to change. You'd think it would be cheaper to keep the same engine since the transmission is 98% the same, and now they have to design a new bellhousing ss well.

[O5Q45]

I'd enjoy seeing the changes they made to the 06+ VK. I have only gone through the FSM for the 04,05 & 06 Q. I haven't ever looked into the FSM for the M series car. Is this where I could view any changes? I haven't spent any time on the M's introduction to the U.S. other than as it is mentioned as an unintended demise to the Q. I did notice in the Japanese market the Fuga (M) with the VK is considered a very sporty edition with a GT emblem if I remember correctly. So, yes that midsize car with the Q motor would most definitely shake things up. I think if it had only been available here in the U.S. with the VQ series under the hood that maybe just maybe, the Q wouldn't have been etched out. I have to say had I been in the market at the time I'm not sure which I would have gone with, the Q has the Visteon voice recognition and the Bose autopilot system while the M had the look. (And the same V8).. so probably would have gone with the M. At any rate, you mentioned the bell housing Redding in the transmission and it being almost 100% subsequently similar so other than just plain size of the vehicle being shorter, I'm wondering where I could find these changes. Would you suggest the FSM for comparison? Also, the Cima (Q45) was not give. The option for the VK motor in Japan, yet the Fuga GT (M) was available in there market with it... interesting-

[EdBwoy]

I think the Cima issues might have to do with engine dimensions and generally repurposing an old platform to shoehorn a new engine, trans, and electronics in it. They had to let it die a natural death.

It depends on what years youre talking about. Prior to 2006 model year, the M had most of the features of the Q as options. Couldn't get the adjustable suspension, reclining rear seats or backup camera package. But I'd still get the y34 M45 for the look.

In 2006, its no contest for me. The M45 lost the look but it got some good features. Plus the ride and handling is superb. Test one if you can.

[EdBwoy]

As to where to see these changes, I think the FSM has a fairly decent description but sometimes then illustrations get a little generic.
I've had the fortune (or misfortune, depending on your perspective) of replacing engines for both models so I've gotten quite a lot of face time with these engines.

[O5Q45]

I agree lol. I tried comparing in SC9 of the FSM for 4, 5 & 6 models on the removal of the starter trying to see any difference in location and indeed they are pretty useless..
Several other members have inquired on the paper and I've sent it on to them. It makes for interesting read.. and gives me even more respect to the VK. I have certainly enjoyed this car more so than the LS430 I had as far as driving goes.. and you can't say it's been boring in the repair shop as the LS was.. although my wallet desperately misses the LS.. anyway, it makes since why they demand a VIN number every time I order a part.. there micro changes to the motor. I had a thought and wondered your thought on it- do you think it wise to keep at least 1/4 quart over full in the VK at all times? I've had mistakenly 1 whole quart over before with no issues besides a little excess burn off at start-?

[EdBwoy]

... I had a thought and wondered your thought on it- do you think it wise to keep at least 1/4 quart over full in the VK at all times? I've had mistakenly 1 whole quart over before with no issues besides a little excess burn off at start-?

I did contemplate this, but at this moment I don't think it's going to do any good really. It's just going to burn off anyway, so why not just put the correct amount in?
I usually have at least a quart of oil in the trunk just in case. The car has an allowance of around a quart low (going by the graduation of the dipstick), so instead of drowning the engine, I would rather just keep an eye on the level

[EdBwoy]

Btw, I did get a chance to read the paper. Thanks again for doing this for the forum.

It confirms what I had seen around, that the breathing of the engine is superb. We had a guy who actually took heads to be bench tested and said there wasn't much he could do to improve i, although he intended to do some intake work. Note that in 2006 the M45 engines got different intakes with longer runners
topic606833.html?#p6692567

Also, what I've experienced is that these engines are smooth and very quiet.

Not much talk about what could cause more oil consumption than its predecessor, but I've come to see it more as the price to pay for high performance.

[AZhitman]

If anyone can tell me how to paste a PDF file here to the forum; I'll be glad to post the tech paper. It is on the SAE website "Development of new high performance Nissan V8"
http://Www.SAE.org in the "advanced engineering"or "technical" papers.

Hey 05, if you'll send the PDF over ([email protected]), I'll have it hosted here and linked in our tech articles for all the VK faithful!

[O5Q45]

Sent AZhitman! Thanks! I hope everyone enjoys it-

[AZhitman]

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/develo ... ngine.html

[Q451990]

A very interesting article. I think the biggest take-away from reading stuff like this is that they really do put a lot of thought and effort into designing these engines down to very fine details. But amazingly we have people all the time who get an extra 10 - 15HP out of an intake they made in their garage out of $10 of PVC pipe from Home Depot.