So I have decided that the Bose system just sucks in the 03 M45's. I went to Hifi Buys and asked about upgrading the speakers and amp and the sales associate said that to even replace the door speakers would require major work due to how the stereo is manufactured into the car.
He said that each door has its own small amplifier that draws power from a larger central amplifier. To replace any of it would render the entire console useless. He told me that the last M45 they did, the bill was $8900. I about had a heart attack. He then told me that if I wanted to bump, to UPGRADE to an Acura TSX. I laughed at him and left quickly.
I don't know a lot about car stereos, but it seems like it can't be that much different than any other audio system as far as signal flows are concerned.
I assume that the radio/CD part of the unit produces a signal that goes to an amplifier and then goes to outputs (speakers) just like any other system. I don't see how it would be a big deal to replace the latter two parts and cause a failure in the system. Any light that another can shed on this would be much appreciated.
For $9000, I would hope that sucker is deaf by now. I don't know how you could spend that much on car speakers. I will suffer the mediocracy if the alternative costs over a grand.
03 M45 Stereo Question
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elwesso
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2007 BMW M Coupe
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Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (M45inATL)
Let me look into this a little more... however, regardless of each amp powering a speaker or one big amp, the head unit is still going to throw a pre-out (signal) voltage... They make harnesses that allow you to splice these signal wires and just hook them up your regular amp (4 channel I assume)
I think youd be looking at a real mess if you wanted to change to some other head unit (which is probably that that person wanted to do), but just upgrading the speakers and amps should still be fine. Regardless of how complex it is, its still a basic 12 volt stereo system.
I think youd be looking at a real mess if you wanted to change to some other head unit (which is probably that that person wanted to do), but just upgrading the speakers and amps should still be fine. Regardless of how complex it is, its still a basic 12 volt stereo system.
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elwesso
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2007 BMW M Coupe
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Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (elwesso)
I briefly looked at the FSM, and there is one central amp in the back that powers the 7 speakers: 2 front speakers, 2 rear speakers, 2 dash speakers, and the subwoofer....
The audio unit (aka the head unit) gives signal for LH and RH signal to the bose AMP. the amp then splits that signal into the various 7 speakers....
The problem I see is you may not be able to control your balance from the head unit, but im not entirely sure.... I think the balance and fade is controlled by the bose unit via the head unit, IE the head unit signal doesnt change, the bose output signal changes.....
I think it might be a little tricky to get it working right, but I dont see why you cant make it work.... you may have to do some cutting of the factory harness to get it to work right..
ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE which I dont think would be bad, would be to keep the bose amp in place, and take the bose speakers out... THen run the speaker level inputs to the amp of your choice, and the replace each of the 7 speakers with ones of your choice....
what this is doing is allowing you to run your aftermarket amp without really changing except the amp and speaker... This might be a better overall solution because my experience with bose is that it uses different pre-amp level voltages than standard (it probably uses a much lower voltage)....
The audio unit (aka the head unit) gives signal for LH and RH signal to the bose AMP. the amp then splits that signal into the various 7 speakers....
The problem I see is you may not be able to control your balance from the head unit, but im not entirely sure.... I think the balance and fade is controlled by the bose unit via the head unit, IE the head unit signal doesnt change, the bose output signal changes.....
I think it might be a little tricky to get it working right, but I dont see why you cant make it work.... you may have to do some cutting of the factory harness to get it to work right..
ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE which I dont think would be bad, would be to keep the bose amp in place, and take the bose speakers out... THen run the speaker level inputs to the amp of your choice, and the replace each of the 7 speakers with ones of your choice....
what this is doing is allowing you to run your aftermarket amp without really changing except the amp and speaker... This might be a better overall solution because my experience with bose is that it uses different pre-amp level voltages than standard (it probably uses a much lower voltage)....
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (elwesso)
Rockford Fosgate makes a device called the 3Sixty. While I'm not exactly sure how it physically connects to your system, and what limitations it has, it's premise is to hook into a OEM system and remove any equalizations that system has so you can more easily integrate into it.
My experience with Bose systems, is that the only real easy fix is to replace the subwoofer. Other than that, you'll find that as you learn more and more about the system, the less you'll want to try and tap into it. On some cars, it's just a matter of replacing the entire Bose system and starting from scratch, from the head unit down to the speakers. However, with the M, this is not a very likely solution. I applaud your efforts, and quite frankly am very interested in how you'll do, but I doubt you'll have much luck.
Tony
My experience with Bose systems, is that the only real easy fix is to replace the subwoofer. Other than that, you'll find that as you learn more and more about the system, the less you'll want to try and tap into it. On some cars, it's just a matter of replacing the entire Bose system and starting from scratch, from the head unit down to the speakers. However, with the M, this is not a very likely solution. I applaud your efforts, and quite frankly am very interested in how you'll do, but I doubt you'll have much luck.
Tony
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (M45inATL)
Hey M45ATL - I am sort of a self proclaimed expert on the 2003 M's.. I have done extensive work on the audio system, and can pretty much answer any questions out there. For more detail, check out my webpage on my installs and this may give you a good idea of what is involved with doing a system in the M. It's rather long, but should help.
http://thegreenm45.itgo.com/Audio.htm ( sorry about the pop-up adds... have moved it from my personal webpage to a dedicated site for the M, which I am not paying for, thus the ads.)
Long story short.... In order to replace the factory speakers, you need an aftermarket amp, you can simply patch into the signal that is being outputed from the stock Bose unit, however you will have what I call frequency attenuation at certain volumes. The louder the system goes, the less bass and the less high frequency inforation will get to the speakers. Bose has done this to protect their cheap speakers, but if you can live with that. An install shouldn't cost anywhere near the price you are being qouted. I am in the moddle of revision 3.0 on my system (which doesn't appear on the website yet), and after it's all said and done if I was paying retail, it would be a nearly $15000 system, the biggest part of that is about 40 hours of labor creating, sanding and finishing the two sub enclosures on either side of the trunk. At $9000 for a "basic" install, those amps better be gold plated? Whats this shops hourly rate? I am basing my system cost estimates at $70/ hour...... A simple install of front and rear doors, dash tweeters, a sub and amplifiers , with some sort of LOC to connect them to the Bose amp, shouldn't be more the $1500, plus the cost of equipment. Even that ($1500) for a basic install is high.
If you have any questions feel free to contact me.
http://thegreenm45.itgo.com/Audio.htm ( sorry about the pop-up adds... have moved it from my personal webpage to a dedicated site for the M, which I am not paying for, thus the ads.)
Long story short.... In order to replace the factory speakers, you need an aftermarket amp, you can simply patch into the signal that is being outputed from the stock Bose unit, however you will have what I call frequency attenuation at certain volumes. The louder the system goes, the less bass and the less high frequency inforation will get to the speakers. Bose has done this to protect their cheap speakers, but if you can live with that. An install shouldn't cost anywhere near the price you are being qouted. I am in the moddle of revision 3.0 on my system (which doesn't appear on the website yet), and after it's all said and done if I was paying retail, it would be a nearly $15000 system, the biggest part of that is about 40 hours of labor creating, sanding and finishing the two sub enclosures on either side of the trunk. At $9000 for a "basic" install, those amps better be gold plated? Whats this shops hourly rate? I am basing my system cost estimates at $70/ hour...... A simple install of front and rear doors, dash tweeters, a sub and amplifiers , with some sort of LOC to connect them to the Bose amp, shouldn't be more the $1500, plus the cost of equipment. Even that ($1500) for a basic install is high.
If you have any questions feel free to contact me.
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szh
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Unfortunately, no longer a Nissan or Infiniti, but continuing here at NICO! - Location: San Jose, CA
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (conley_jb)
Link does not work. Please send me the information and I will put it up here ... will be easier to see and also does not violate our FAQ item.
Z
Z
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aurorafish1234
- Posts: 8
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Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (conley_jb)
I have same car 03 M45, cant say enough great things about it. I have begun the process of upgrading the audio, that link is awesome. I want to leave stock head unit. I have some older amplifiers and a dual 10 inch sub box would like to use this since its already paid for. My other thought is to put a real 10" woofer in factory woofer spot to free up the room in the trunk. Any opions welcome on this. I have never installed in a car with the gas tank between the rear seat and the trunk, if i use the dual 10's in a box I guess i could just pull the stock bose 10incher so it would help the sound get through??
The big question. Is the feed from the head unit into the stock bose amplifier 20Hz to 20KHz? I realize if i tap this I lose volume, fader, bass treble, Due to bose's unique methods of audio splendor.... Other option from way to much time on internet is to use something like a 3sixty rockford fosgate or JL Audio Cleansweep along with something like jl or audiocontrol lc6 )to "autosum" the output of the bose amp. Just wondering if its better (clarity wise) to keep the bose amp in the system.
I welcome anyones input on this car/audio setup, it doesnt appear to be a well know system thats in these 03 M45's , I have been to a few local shops and been told something different about the stock system from each one. Thanks, Tim
The big question. Is the feed from the head unit into the stock bose amplifier 20Hz to 20KHz? I realize if i tap this I lose volume, fader, bass treble, Due to bose's unique methods of audio splendor.... Other option from way to much time on internet is to use something like a 3sixty rockford fosgate or JL Audio Cleansweep along with something like jl or audiocontrol lc6 )to "autosum" the output of the bose amp. Just wondering if its better (clarity wise) to keep the bose amp in the system.
I welcome anyones input on this car/audio setup, it doesnt appear to be a well know system thats in these 03 M45's , I have been to a few local shops and been told something different about the stock system from each one. Thanks, Tim
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (M45inATL)
Thanks for all the input. I have been out of town the last few days and haven't noticed all the posts. I will check out that link and hopefully be able to do something. I will keep everybody up to date. Thanks!
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (conley_jb)
Did you take a look at the 3Sixty? I'm wondering it this might be a fix for the problem you are describing? I haven't spoke to a single person yet that has tried one and I'm very interested in how well it works.conley_jb wrote: however you will have what I call frequency attenuation at certain volumes. The louder the system goes, the less bass and the less high frequency inforation will get to the speakers. Bose has done this to protect their cheap speakers, but if you can live with that.
Tony
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (Tony407)
aurorafish1234 - The biggest issue you will have with two 10's is getting them to fit. I did a single ten in the original install in the factory location (built a box to squeeze in the space above the full-tank) and it worked, but you will have to rebuild the original rear deck, or at least I did. The opening is a bottom mount, and most subs are top... thus the reason I rebuilt mine. Another issue to consider is as you mentioned with the fuel tank were it is. At one point I had designed a box for four 8-inch subs firing into the trunk in a box above the tank, only problem was that the output couldn't reach the interior. The best bet is Free-air or infinite baffle setup... if you can find a good woofer for this application, this will give you the best sound. The problem is the space above the fuelk tank is less than 6-inches. If you can afford it, I would consider a single JL 8w7...it won't mount directly to the whole, but with some creativety you could seal the rear deck and do it free-air. (JL says this woofer won't work free-air, but I was running two this way and it was awesome).
As far as the signal goes.. I have tried it all.... The output from the OEM source (before the Bose amp) is the best and is full range 20-20k, but will require something like a CleanSweep, et al due to the fact that you will loose not only front to rear fade, but the use of the OEM volume control. The Bose amp is also a preamp which controls every aspect of the system. So unless you use a device with it's own volume control you are SOL. I just purchased a 3sixty.2 to run in the M... am in the middle of the install now, but other than the built -in EQ, and time delay capability, am not expecting a lot more benefits over my previous setup using the Celansweep.
Oh, you mentioned the LC-8 from Audio control... I used this in conjunction with the Cleansweep and it worked but was just one more component I had to find room to mount.
As far as the signal goes.. I have tried it all.... The output from the OEM source (before the Bose amp) is the best and is full range 20-20k, but will require something like a CleanSweep, et al due to the fact that you will loose not only front to rear fade, but the use of the OEM volume control. The Bose amp is also a preamp which controls every aspect of the system. So unless you use a device with it's own volume control you are SOL. I just purchased a 3sixty.2 to run in the M... am in the middle of the install now, but other than the built -in EQ, and time delay capability, am not expecting a lot more benefits over my previous setup using the Celansweep.
Oh, you mentioned the LC-8 from Audio control... I used this in conjunction with the Cleansweep and it worked but was just one more component I had to find room to mount.
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aurorafish1234
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- Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:48 am
- Car: M45 2003
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (conley_jb)
Conley- Thanks , that helps much. I mounted a single dualvoicecoil 10 in the factory hole last nite to run free air, i have a rockford 10 and a few alphasonic 10s to test out, dynamated the whole rear deck hopefully that will work out, if not will try that JL woofer you recommended.
If i bypass the facory amp straigth to a cleansweep which wires should I use into the cleansweep, I cant find a wiring diagram on this system anywhere. The local shops around here say to go through the factory amp to a autosumming device then cleansweep then aftermarket amps-speakers. I think AMP TO AMP will induce unnecessary noise.Thanks.
If i bypass the facory amp straigth to a cleansweep which wires should I use into the cleansweep, I cant find a wiring diagram on this system anywhere. The local shops around here say to go through the factory amp to a autosumming device then cleansweep then aftermarket amps-speakers. I think AMP TO AMP will induce unnecessary noise.Thanks.
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (aurorafish1234)
Lets see if this file will upload.... this should help, its the pages on the stereo from the service manual.
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aurorafish1234
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- Car: M45 2003
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (conley_jb)
Thanks, I am going to get a 3sixty now, with the built in autosumming it seems to be a better value than the cleensweep route. I checked one out at lunch yesterday, they want too much $$ to install it, but it seemed to make a factory dodge charger system sound nice going thru the factory radio and amp. Appreciate your sharing of your explorations into this bose/infiniti system
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aurorafish1234
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:48 am
- Car: M45 2003
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (aurorafish1234)
Whats the trick to removing the factory tweeters??? The doors come apart easily but the dash tweeters have me stumped!!
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (aurorafish1234)
It's a pain in the you know what.... with all the work I have done on these cars, this is something I still haven't done.
Basically you have to remove the whole top part of the dash.... remove the center console and glove box screws then the ones around the steering column and them you can get to the half dozen or so screws onlong the bottom edge of the dash top...after you get it off its easy going...
Basically you have to remove the whole top part of the dash.... remove the center console and glove box screws then the ones around the steering column and them you can get to the half dozen or so screws onlong the bottom edge of the dash top...after you get it off its easy going...
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (M45inATL)
We used the factory non-nav head unit, but added a sub amp, 4 channel amp, front and rear components, and 2 10" subs. I use to have all Eclipse gear, but we swapped it out for Macrom.
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aurorafish1234
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:48 am
- Car: M45 2003
Re: Wow.
Thats incredible. So are you going to help a brother out on how to get to the dash tweeters???
Re: Wow. (aurorafish1234)
That my friend was a pain in the a$$ !!! You have to remove the grill and vent cover in the dash to access the tweeters. Be careful because it's easy to break the tabs....I did....aurorafish1234 wrote:Thats incredible. So are you going to help a brother out on how to get to the dash tweeters???
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question (conley_jb)
Conley jb, can you give me a phone number to call you . I have several questions that you can answer for me. Thanks.
[email protected]
[email protected]
Re: 03 M45 Stereo Question
I know it's been a very long time, but how did you guys systems turn out?nuge wrote: ↑Fri May 30, 2008 11:08 amConley jb, can you give me a phone number to call you . I have several questions that you can answer for me. Thanks.
[email protected]
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