Throttle Body odity

Post by **Jeff Williams** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Does anybody have this little notch, in their throttlebody?

I was cleaning the intake on the 1994 Q45t, this evening, and noticed this notch. It is perfectly smoothe, but I know my other 1994 Q45 does not have it. I wonder if it is a late model thing, or a touring model thing. It looks like the TB has been replaced, and the plenum has been removed at some time.

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Honestly I cant remember what mine looks like, but are you referring to the little groove next to that thing that sticks up???

It looks perfectly normal to me... I dont know why they woudl replace the TB???

Post by **Jeff Williams** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Yes, there is an area of the TB, that is plastic, and there is a deep groove in it. It looks like a half moon, in the picture. It is not visible, when the butterfly is closed.

Post by **Jeff Williams** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

As I look at it further, it looks like a place, where the plastic par has broken off, from binding on something, while whoever had it off, was tightening it. Like it chipped off, while someone was prying it apart (which I know no one would be stupid enough to try that on the inside of the TB).

The car ran much better, today, after the TB & MAF cleaning. As long as Idon't go WOT, the car drives superb. It beggs to be opened up (or is that me begging to open her up?).

I think it is from a big-fisted mechanic, in a hurry to re-assemble the car. I hope it isn't what is causing the car to bog at WOT.

Post by **SFBayQ45** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Quote »The car ran much better, today, after the TB & MAF cleaning. [/quote]

If cleaning the TB & MAF will net better performance, I'm all game.

Jeff - do you have any special instructions on how to do this for a non-mechanically inclined fella like me?

Wes - do you have a write-up about this that you can share?

Post by **Jeff Williams** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

I saw a nice little write-up on http://www.q45.org

Basically, use a full can of electrical (brake) cleaner, on the MAF, and a full can of Throttlebody (Fuel Injector NOT Carb) cleaner on the TB and inside the plenum. Hold the butterfly open with a screwdriver - it is much easier that way.

Eventually, the fluid running out of the TB is clear.

It is REAL HARD to start the car, once you clean the TB. You might want to let it dry for a while, before starting it.

Post by **Rex** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Just for those who don't go to the link, remove the MAF to clean and the TB (throttle body) can be cleaned while on the car if you remove it from the car/engine you'll need a gasket.

EDIT: Based on the additional info below.

Post by **Jeff Williams** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

I do remove the MAF and upper filter housing in one piece, and take the plastic piping off the TB, but do not remove the TB from the plenum.

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

You can remove the TB, just have a new gasket on hand. Then you can clean part of the plenum or, if you're Greg, all of the plenum.

Post by **AZhitman** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

That little notch, if I'm not mistaken, is the air passage for closed-throttle (idle) operation.

It leads to a tiny orifice on the outside of the TB with a hose connection, and it gets all funky in cars that are "granny-driven".

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

yes I do believe that is from the TCS...

There should only be a slight gap or any passage, as the IAC will take care of the rest.....

You can clean the TB with the TB still on (but will do a marginal job), and you can clean the plenum without taking it off... But eventually its going to need to be taken off to be THOROUGHLY cleaned....

Post by **SFBayQ45** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Based on previous threads, it seems like a fuel rail flush is strongly recommended. I've just dropped off my car at the dealership to have that done. The counter rep explained that this also involves some sort of chemical flushing down the TB that also cleans the fuel rail. According to the rep, there isn't any specific job just for a "fuel rail flush" alone, therefore this work they're referring to would total $200. Am I being taken?

If this work I am agreeing to involves cleaning the TB, is it safe to assume that I don't need to clean the TB just as Jeff is doing above?

YouTube · Post by **Jesda** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Odd. Based on previous posts people are able to purchase just a fuel rail flush.

Post by **maxnix** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

SFBayQ45 wrote:The counter rep explained that this also involves some sort of chemical flushing down the TB that also cleans the fuel rail. According to the rep, there isn't any specific job just for a "fuel rail flush" alone, therefore this work they're referring to would total $200. Am I being taken?

The intake passage is for air, and eventually the fuel sprayed into it from an injector. I think what they are offering you is a chemical fogging cleaning of the intake passage. While good as an item for general maintenance, it is no substitute for elbow grease when the intake and/or throttle body is truly dirty.

The BG fuel rail flush is the only good on vehicle one of which I am aware. I bet your dealer doesn't offer it.

Look at the http://www.bgprod.com site and find a shop that does. Don't believe the icons, call the shop first to confirm.

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

After seeing what builds up inside there, one of those intake foggers I see worthless UNLESS its clean and you do it say every 90 days to keep clean.....

Just like BG44k isnt meant to clean dirty injectors... to keep clean ones clean.....

YouTube · Post by **Jesda** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Recleaned the MAF yesterday and did the TB a couple hours ago. Idling is significantly smoother, and what I saw inside wasnt pretty:

Post by **Jeff Williams** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Jes!!!

Put some towels under the TB, to catch the nasty stuff, so it doesn't get on the rocker covers!

Did you see the half-moon shaped piece cut out of the dark plastic ring, inside your plenum?

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

SFBayQ45 wrote:Based on previous threads, it seems like a fuel rail flush is strongly recommended. I've just dropped off my car at the dealership to have that done. The counter rep explained that this also involves some sort of chemical flushing down the TB that also cleans the fuel rail. According to the rep, there isn't any specific job just for a "fuel rail flush" alone, therefore this work they're referring to would total $200. Am I being taken?

If this work I am agreeing to involves cleaning the TB, is it safe to assume that I don't need to clean the TB just as Jeff is doing above?

HORSECRAP. It's one thing to not offer a service. It's despicable to lie about what the available service actually does. Ask the rep how the cleaner gets into the fuel rail from the TB!

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

If you get the car to backfire through the intake and open the injectors at the same time, that should REALLY blow some crap out (and more in)

YouTube · Post by **Jesda** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Jeff Williams wrote:Jes!!!

Put some towels under the TB, to catch the nasty stuff, so it doesn't get on the rocker covers!

Did you see the half-moon shaped piece cut out of the dark plastic ring, inside your plenum?

Rocker covers? What? You lost me. I'll grab a towel next time though.

I didnt check for the plastic ring thing. It was almost 6pm on a dreary and I really couldnt see it if I tried. The lighting in those photos is thanks to the camera flash.

Post by **Jeff Williams** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Rocker covers, Tappet covers, Valve covers, whatever.

I know hte feeling, with the flash. It is really ahrd to use the camera as a flashlight. It tends to give you a headache.

Isn't working in the dark cool?:D

YouTube · Post by **Jesda** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Honestly, I dont know where or what the rocker/valve/tappet covers are. I just know that when they leak I'm supposed to pay someone to replace them. Don't give me too much credit when it comes to the technical aspects of automobiles.

Tomorrow I'm going to remove the air duct and take more pictures. I'm also curious about this moon-shaped thing youre referring to.

-Jesda

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

The valve covers are those gold looking things that are bolted onto the sides of the enigne at an angle. They have the black plastic piece of death, where the plugs are located under.....

Post by **HeavyDuty** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Are you talking about the little chip on the black plastic? Hmm, don't remember that.

elwesso wrote:If you get the car to backfire through the intake and open the injectors at the same time, that should REALLY blow some crap out (and more in)

LOL at Wes!

I'm anal and don't clean the TB on the car, the emulsified gradoo can run down the plenum & make a mess.

Either way it's a PITA to get it good & clean, but if it's off the car you can be certain you don't miss any spots.

Related comment, kinda.....if any of you guys plan on getting an Eaton charger, for Chrissakes never, ever, ever spray that stuff in the throttle body on the car. The rotor set is coated with teflon and that stuff comes off as fast as a prom dress if carb cleaner runs through it.

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

I agree... I cleaned my TB in just the same way mentioned here, and it was STILL CAKED with CRAP after the cleaning...

In order to get sparking, you MUST remove and scrub (or use my paint/varnish remover method!)... Perfection is a PITA to achieve!!!

Post by **squeefoo** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

I use a toothbrush and carb cleaner after holding the butterfly open with a bungee cord on the linkage...and I use a light.

BTW: if it's really Teflon applied properly, carb cleaner can't touch it. Go to DuPonts web site and read the resistance charts. Flourine is spooky stuff when you add it to polyethylene or polypropylene.

Post by **redmanfx** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

elwesso wrote:In order to get sparking, you MUST remove and scrub (or use my paint/varnish remover method!)... Perfection is a PITA to achieve!!!

I absolutely agree with you Wes. After cleaning mine, I am convinced the best way to clean it is to take it off and do it right. The caked black mass of hard crisby pan baked crustatious barnicled crap just doesn't come clean with the tooth brush and cleaner while still attached to the plenum. You clean get it a little clean but to really spit shine the inside and get all your performance back, take it off and clean. You get better angles and can really get it from the other side without all that cleaner dripping down your cars throat. The difference is incredible IMHO.

It's a pain,but worth it.

red.

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

I can only imagine how yours was redman!!

:vomit:

Only problem is, you will see how dirty the plenum is and then youll want to remove that and get it clean... Then youll see how dirty the intake runners are, and want to clean those as well.....

Its a never ending process to perfection!!!

Post by **redmanfx** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

elwesso wrote:I can only imagine how yours was redman!! :vomit:

Only problem is, you will see how dirty the plenum is and then youll want to remove that and get it clean... Then youll see how dirty the intake runners are, and want to clean those as well.....

Its a never ending process to perfection!!!

SSSHHHHH! You'll scare people off..... You are sooooo right.

red.

Post by **squeefoo** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm

Toothbrush works great ....If it's not been allowed to become a crusty, barnacled mess from deferred maintenance. Should be part of a normal routine like fuel filters and oil changes. Any car with a TB should have it cleaned regularly. How did it get that way?

Throttle Body odity

Throttle Body odity

Intake Fogging or Rail Flush?

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