Car Thief Killed; Woman Released Without Charges - Castle Law Discussion

[mrodrig2]

HOUSTON -- A woman who was 8 months pregnant fatally shot a man who was breaking into her car, police told KPRC Local 2.

Suspected Burglar KilledHouston police said the woman spotted a 19-year-old in the parking lot of the Pinemont Forest Apartments in the 5900 block of Pinemont Street at about 9 p.m. Monday.The woman retrieved a shotgun and fired one time from her second-floor apartment, which was nearby, police said.The man suffered a gunshot wound to the head and died at the scene. His name was not released."It's scary to know that something so close can happen," said Gracie Melendez, a resident. "I don't think I would have the guts to shoot anybody or not even scare them -- shoot up in the air. I don't think I could handle a gun."The woman was questioned and released without charges. Police relocated the woman and her family for their safety.

http://www.click2houston.com/n....html

I saw this posted on another car forum, it is similar to the original Joe Horn case in some ways. A lot of people there are saying that the punishment fit the crime and the woman should be released without charges. Texas is a Castle Doctrine state. The controversy is that this was a theft and not a robbery and the woman was in no immediate danger. I personally don't think this fits the criteria for Castle and furthermore that Castle itself is too much freedom to trust every joe-schmo civilian with. What do you guys think?

[Red coupe]

I know most here will say "Serves the thief right, ect..ect..."

But I don't know a single state where the penalty for theft is death, and since when can we chose to issue our own punishment when some one is breaking the law?

Law states that on a one lane road any vehicle that is holding up traffic (has more then 3 vehicles piled up behind it) must pull over and let traffic pass. Punishment is likely a small ticket.... But I think I will just run the person off the road. After all, they are effecting me and there is no other way for me to stop them!

[Jesda]

I know most here will say "Serves the thief right, ect..ect..."

But I don't know a single state where the penalty for theft is death, and since when can we chose to issue our own punishment when some one is breaking the law?

Law states that on a one lane road any vehicle that is holding up traffic (has more then 3 vehicles piled up behind it) must pull over and let traffic pass. Punishment is likely a small ticket.... But I think I will just run the person off the road. After all, they are effecting me and there is no other way for me to stop them!

"Pomona CA"

[Red coupe]

"Pomona CA"

"Chesterfield"

I'm not on the theifs side here... but lets look at it like this.Say you have a daughter, and some one rapes her.

It is still very illegal for you to go out, find the rapist and shoot him with your shot gun.

If you can't even shoot a rapist, why should you be able to shoot a car thief? I would MUCH rather some one steal my car then rape my daughter.

[bobotech]

If someone is stealing from me, I want to have legal right to do what is in my power to prevent them from stealing.

If they know that they can steal and no one can do much to them, whats to stop them from stealing?

[hannibal]

If someone is stealing from me, I want to have legal right to do what is in my power to prevent them from stealing.

Sure, and Walmart should start shooting shoplifters.

This lady committed murder...

[mrodrig2]

If someone is stealing from me, I want to have legal right to do what is in my power to prevent them from stealing.

If they know that they can steal and no one can do much to them, whats to stop them from stealing?

Um... the police? You should be allowed to do what is in your power and what is within reason. Using force, deadly force at that, is not reasonable. You are committing one crime against another crime.

When you witness someone in the act of thieving your property (mind you theft, not robbery) you are close to the situation and may act irrationally. That is why you call the police, who are trained and recognized by society as objective to the situation. They will react in the proper manner (whether you trust law enforcement or the govt is an entirely separate matter) and then the criminal will be subjected to a judge and jury.

The Castle law circumvents that and that is my problem with the situation.

[r34 gtr]

Castle Law is the s***!!! If you are f***ing around on my property, prepare to be shot with intent to kill.

[mrodrig2]

Castle Law is the s***!!! If you are f***ing around on my property, prepare to be shot with intent to kill.

We are talking about a simple theft in this case, not a violent crime, not someone 'f***ing around' on your property.

So you have intent to kill and you are just waiting to be able to use Castle Law as an excuse to do it? I'd be worried that you are just as dangerous, if not more so than many thieves.

[ScrapMetal]

The woman retrieved a shotgun and fired one time from her second-floor apartment

The man suffered a gunshot wound to the head and died at the scene.

HEAD SHOT!

I don't feel bad for the guy, shouldn't have been stealing cars.

[PEZi]

if someone was stealing my car i wouldn't shoot them... maybe let them know they they are barking up the wrong tree then wait for them to assault me... and at MOST shoot them in the leg or some s*** out of self defense... as was said before... the penalty for stealing is not death... but then again i'm not a pregnant lady

[mrodrig2]

That fact that she's pregnant can support both sides of the argument. Some may say that it justifies her sense of danger. I say it shows that her actions were irrational because she was safely inside of her 2nd floor apartment unnoticed by the thieves. There are many other ways in which she could have safely defended her property without escalating the situation to an extreme.

[assassin7420]

Come bumbling around my yard trying to break in/steal my car. I too will answer your call with a 12 gauge slug to the head.

[SeVa-S13]

BOOM, HEAD SHOT!

I don't feel bad for the guy, shouldn't have been stealing cars.

[IanS]

Did the car thief deserve to die? Probably not. Did the lady have the right to shoot him? Doubtful. Do I feel she made the right decision? Definitely.

For me it all comes down to one thing. DONT STEAL. The kid wouldn't be dead had he not tried to steal the car. He made his bed, (coffin) and now he must sleep in it. Another person should not try to take what I or anyone else for that matter, have worked so hard for, and I will do everything in my power to make sure they dont get away with it.

I've noticed a complete lack of respect in regard to other peoples property by those in my generation as well as those after. It is unacceptable. I think as incidents like these become more commonplace, its possible that people will begin to think twice before breaking that window, or jimmying that door. Whatever happened to personal accountability? If you dont speed, you wont get a ticket. If you dont hit your wife, you wont get arrested. If you dont try and take my stuff, you wont get the crap sliced out of you with a machete.

Im sick and tired of seeing wanna be gangstas and tough guys running around like the law cant touch them. The problem is, in a lot of instances, it cant.

Im not one of those guys who hates cops, I've actually had very good experiences with them personally, but they can never help when I need them. They are always too busy doing something else.

If you come though my door, you better be ready for a fight. If you rape my wife, you better hope the police find you first. If I catch you in my car, you better hope it starts before I get within arms reach. I do not take this lightly, its time for people to learn some f***ing respect.

PS, whats to say the pregnant lady was just a bad shot. Its possible she was aiming for say, the legs, but missed. Shotguns aren't the most accurate weapons ever created.

[mrodrig2]

The problem with Castle Law is that it removes due process. I don't even understand how it's constitutional since it removes the right to face your accuser and completely annihilates "inncoent until proven guilty." For all we know, this kid was getting beat up by a gang against her car and now he's dead because she didn't stop and let an objective party, i.e. police, handle the situation.

[mrodrig2]

PS, whats to say the pregnant lady was just a bad shot. Its possible she was aiming for say, the legs, but missed. Shotguns aren't the most accurate weapons ever created.

Then its manslaughter instead of murder. Edit: Actually, if you own a gun it is your own responsibility to know its capabilities and uses. Couple that with the intent to harm/injure and it can still be construed as homicide.

[Red coupe]

PS, whats to say the pregnant lady was just a bad shot. Its possible she was aiming for say, the legs, but missed. Shotguns aren't the most accurate weapons ever created.

I think that would be a good reason that you don't fire a gun at people you don't intend to kill?

[skydragoness]

I think that would be a good reason that you don't fire a gun at people you don't intend to kill?

I think a warning shot probably would've been enough to scare the s*** out of the kid. The only person who knows how it went down is her. At first reading I thought the article was going to say that she was in her vehicle or near it and shot the guy--which I think would've been understandable and plausible that they'd be shot dead. But from a 2nd floor apartment? Did she have a car alarm and knew someone was trying to break in? Was she waiting for the kid? I know from working with a few pregnant women is that they get instinctively super-protective, lose focus, and get a little 'spacey.'

[IanS]

I think that would be a good reason that you don't fire a gun at people you don't intend to kill?

Exactly. She overreacted, a warning shot should have more than sufficed.

That being said, people MUST be willing to pay the price for their actions.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

No, no no no no.

Red Coupe is correct in this account. The gun comes out when you're prepared to kill someone.

Warning shots, "aiming for the legs" etc are all stupid, stupid stupid.

No serious self-defense expert (Massad Ayoob, etc.) nor would any good lawyer recommend it. Ayoob has written a good bit on what a stupid idea such things are. A major issue is where does that stray round travel?

Warning shots are for movies.

Also, "Castle Doctrine" is a negative connotation cooked up by the Brady Bunch.

[IanS]

No, no no no no.

Red Coupe is correct in this account. The gun comes out when you're prepared to kill someone.

Warning shots, "aiming for the legs" etc are all stupid, stupid stupid.

No serious self-defense expert (Massad Ayoob, etc.) nor would any good lawyer recommend it. Ayoob has written a good bit on what a stupid idea such things are. A major issue is where does that stray round travel?

Warning shots are for movies.

You are correct, but that is not the way people tend to think in those situations. Only a small percentage of the people in possession of a firearm are properly trained in how one should be used. Dont even get me started on that argument, its a whole other can of worms.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

You are correct, but that is not the way people tend to think in those situations. Only a small percentage of the people in possession of a firearm are properly trained in how one should be used. Dont even get me started on that argument, its a whole other can of worms.

So you, obviously NOT being properly trained, are in a position to judge other people's use of them?

[IanS]

So you, obviously NOT being properly trained, are in a position to judge other people's use of them?

If you say so. I learned a long time ago arguing with you is like arguing with a 4 year old. Have fun swinging your e d!ck.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

If you say so. I learned a long time ago arguing with you is like arguing with a 4 year old. Have fun swinging your e d!ck.

Enjoy your overwhelming ignorance. A 4 year old would be a step up for you.

[audtatious]

OK guys, behave.

This particular case has me on the fence. I hate thieves but keep thinking that, while the chances are slim, the guy shot could have been performing a repo (we only know after the fact that he wasn't). Yeah, a stretch, but entirely possible. Being 8 months preggers she should have called the cops. Simply blowing the guy to hell with a shotgun is a bit extreme. On the other hand, he could have had a weapon other than the screwdriver that was still in his hand by the reports. Without knowing, she should have called the cops. If the guy had been breaking into her home with her in it then I would have been fully on her side. Walking out and simply shooting is something else.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

I saw this posted on another car forum, it is similar to the original Joe Horn case in some ways. A lot of people there are saying that the punishment fit the crime and the woman should be released without charges. Texas is a Castle Doctrine state. The controversy is that this was a theft and not a robbery and the woman was in no immediate danger. I personally don't think this fits the criteria for Castle and furthermore that Castle itself is too much freedom to trust every joe-schmo civilian with. What do you guys think?

Last time I checked stealing cars is a Class A Felony which is pretty effing serious in book. Also I'm fairly certain that the Castle Law in TX says that if a theft or robbery (which are pretty much the same thing) occurs ON your property, you the home owner have the right to stop said act by any means of acceptable force. You have to realize that TX still hangs people for horse theft and the average joe is allowed to walk around town with a six shooter strapped to you hip without a permit (or has this changed in the last few years?). I think the police and DA aren't pressing charges due to 1) she is pregnant and 2) that is one hell of a shot with a single shot shotgun. I'd love to see the scene to get an idea of the distance and angle of the shot.

Personally I agree with the decision, after all if someone was stealing your car and you caught them in the act wouldn't you do the same thing and blow their head off with a shotgun. I know I would. In Delaware and a couple of other states if someone breaks into your house you can only use the amount of force that the thief has (ie if they have a gun you can use a gun, if they have a knife you can only use a knife) but in the event of a fatality you better make damn sure the thief dies IN your house, otherwise it's manslaughter and not self defense. so if they get out the door, drag them back into the house (at least halfway across the the threshhold).

Good for her, but at the same time I hope she has a REALLLLLLLLY good attorney, she'll be tied up in civil suits for the next 10 years due to the thief's family, just like the OJ case.

[4WOFURY]

and at MOST shoot them in the leg or some s*** out of self defense..

And then you'll be charged with assault, and sued into slavery. Shoot to kill. Dead men tell no tales.

If you're not going to shoot to kill, then don't even pull the weapon out.

[Red coupe]

OK guys, behave.

This particular case has me on the fence. I hate thieves but keep thinking that, while the chances are slim, the guy shot could have been performing a repo (we only know after the fact that he wasn't). Yeah, a stretch, but entirely possible. Being 8 months preggers she should have called the cops. Simply blowing the guy to hell with a shotgun is a bit extreme. On the other hand, he could have had a weapon other than the screwdriver that was still in his hand by the reports. Without knowing, she should have called the cops. If the guy had been breaking into her home with her in it then I would have been fully on her side. Walking out and simply shooting is something else.

He could have a flame thrower and an AR-15... She isn't in ANY danger till she grabs the shotgun and goes out to play JR rambo.

Thief or not, a car is not worth a persons life.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

the average joe is allowed to walk around town with a six shooter strapped to you hip without a permit (or has this changed in the last few years?).

Texas has not had legalized open carry of ANY sort since the Civil War. Pennsylvania, on the hand, does.

You Wild West cowboys, you.