Nissan tells Porsche: You're Doing it Wrong.

[AZhitman]

...from our friends at Autoblog:

The GT-R/911 schoolyard scuffle continues, with Nissan looking at Porsche's test and basically saying "yer doin it wrong" to the German automaker. Chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno has graciously offered remedial driving classes to the driver for Porsche's lapping session where a GT-R was reportedly 25 seconds off Nissan's torrid time of 7 minutes, 29 seconds.

Porsche had concluded that special tires must have been quietly fitted in a quest for 'Ring primacy. Porsche has yet to say anything other than "Ve don't sink zee car can do it in schtock form."

Not so, says Nissan. While a claim to the fastest production car on the Nürburgring might help prospective customers froth up some money, and owners are unlikely to try verifying the claim, Nissan is not interested in wasting time on one-offs, according to Mizuno.

"For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant", says the engineer. The very tires that carried driver Toshio Suzuki on the 7:29 run are in the hands of Sumitomo, and Nissan would encourage interested parties to STFU and go look at the rolling stock.

It seems Nissan thinks Porsche needs a little help figuring out the GT-R, to which the company will be happy to help. "We are aware that several automakers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation," Nissan says in its most recent rebuttal, "we would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."



Incidentally, in the latest issue of Car and Driver, Larry Webster points out that "Despite what Nissan claims, the GT-R is not making the advertised 480 horsepower."

Rather, the most likely figure is about 520.

PWNT.

http://www.caranddriver.com/fe...olumn

[AZ89two4Tsx]

I knew it all along.

[DachshundTooAteEZ]

...I love Nissan.

Boo Porsche and their nonsensical forced platform heirarchy.

[dasoupdude]

Das Auto.

[xckid]

godzilla!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTW19g-uUTw

nissan should make a commercial of the gtr over taking a porsche on a turn while the driver of the porsche is listening to the radio and this song comes on!

[D-Maxima]

Go Nissan, It's your birthday!

I wonder what Porsche will say in reply to this?

[xckid]

anyone know if their are any Porsche forums out their that are debating this we should spy

[datsun2401972]

This is where Nissan brings the media to the 'Ring, pulls out a production GTR, and bests Porsche's Turbo and GT2 to the time of 7:29....again.

Then, when the media starts to pack up after the score is settled, Nissan pulls out another, slightly different, GTR out of their trailer. This car would be badged spec-v, and appropriately destroy any time Porsche has EVER put down on the 'Ring with a production vehicle. And go ahead and put Walter Rohrl in the passenger seat so Porsche can believe it.

I still love porsches though....

And to those who compare the ZR1 to a GTR.....try to find a ZR1 for sticker price....NOT GONNA HAPPEN! The mark ups are ridiculous. The corvette is all together a different kind of car than the GTR, or the Turbo for that matter....anyways...show us what you got Nissan@!#

[DachshundTooAteEZ]

Even at sticker a ZR1 is preposterously priced.

The GTR's quicker 0-60 time means WAY more in the real world than running around the ring, where 99% of drivers would kill themselves in either car if they were trying to use all the potential available to them...

[AZhitman]

godzilla!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTW19g-uUTw

nissan should make a commercial of the gtr over taking a porsche on a turn while the driver of the porsche is listening to the radio and this song comes on!

LOL YEAH!!!!

[Red coupe]

And to those who compare the ZR1 to a GTR.....try to find a ZR1 for sticker price....NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

Uhhh... I get what your saying, but go out and find a GTR for sticker... They have been getting like 20K mark ups.

I don't really see the GTR demographic being the same as the 911 demographic... I don't really see Porsche being TOO worried about it beating their time...

And most of all (with out taking sides) I don't see why Nissan automatically has credibility over Porsche?

[AZhitman]

They don't.

It's just funny as hell that they're tripping out over this.

It's even funnier if you're old enough to remember when the GNX spanked the Corvette in late 86... Vette guys were jumping off bridges and hurling themselves in fromt of buses, lol...

[Red coupe]

It's just funny as hell that they're tripping out over this.

Who is tripping out?

If you mean Porsche, giving them the benefit of the doubt I'd say not being able to get the car with in 25 seconds of the claimed time is worth bringing to the attention of the class. Go watch a race with Porsche in it... Their drivers don't exactly need to many driving lessons.

lol, and what do you mean

They don't.

Have you read your replies, or any of the other ones in the "OMG GTR cheated!" threads?

Like I said before, Nissan is a big *** company so I am hesitant to belive they would cheat something like, if for no other reason then fear of being exposed... But its not like Kia is challenging them, Porsche is a pretty weighty name when it comes to racing and sports cars... They at least have my attention. Its not like the GTR is such a direct challenge to them that they must smite it at all costs, and with the ZR-1 running similar times they aren't calling that into question. Its not like they are just going after the car that beat them.

[DachshundTooAteEZ]

I'm just plain racist against Porsches.

But I get the jungle fever for 928s.

Really I just miss Porsche of the 80s, when they had a more horizontal lineup of similarly performing cars (on paper) that in reality behaved VERY differently from each other and catered to more people... The 928, 944 and 911 specifically.

Whereas now a 911 HAS to be a better car than the Boxter, which must be held back in order to preserve the hierarchy (despite the Boxter probably having a better chassis).

Both markups considered, the Z06 is the better Vette bargain, but the GTR a greater bargain than that, not counting markups... although I haven't been keeping track of current Z06 markups.

[Red coupe]

I don't think the Z06 sees very much mark up, at least not anywhere near the GTR or ZR-1 Territory... but this thread really isn't about the Vette....

[MinisterofDOOM]

Yeah, the Z06 was never meant to be nor ever interpereted as the type of halo model that the ZR1 is. The ZR1 sees markup because there are people with 10 times it's MSRP in their pocketbooks waiting to buy one. The Z06 is the opposite idea: it's a lot of car for little. The ZR1 and GTR are an entirely different breed of car from both performance and market standpoints than the Z06. They're both "I wonder how amazing we could make a car if we don't worry about MSRP" products that are not intended to sell in profitable numbers, but rather to show the world what the engineers at their respective brands are capable of.

Even at sticker a ZR1 is preposterously priced.

No it isn't. And if you plan to reply with the same "It's a Corvette, it's not worth $100k," you can save your breath. Who cares what the starting point was? It could have been a Crown Victoria before when the designers started on it for all the relevance that holds. The end product is what matters, and you can bet that performance of the ZR1s level from ANY other badge would cost a lot more.

[DachshundTooAteEZ]

I suppose if you think the price hike to the ZR1 is legit simply because there are some very, very rich people in the world who would pay that much, that's ok. But then again, I'm a budget conscious person.

...The ZR1 is an amazing car, but the markup over a Z06 is unbelievable, the Z06 offers amazing performance itself at a fraction of the price, as does a GTR (the GTR being quicker to 60 than either, at any rate). Yes, the ZR1 has ring rights and a supercharger which probably give it a significantly different character than either car.

Perhaps the GTR isn't as raw, or as much of a driver's car, and perhaps the GTR doesn't cater toward anyone who wants a Corvette in the first place in the minds of most people who would buy one. So maybe they should charge that much.

We can probably shake hands and say that any Vette, base to ZR1, is still a better performance deal than most Ferraris or Lambos.

But yeah, let's talk about Porsches. I'm more a Corvette/Nissan freak, so that's someone else's job.
Modified by DachshundTooAteEZ at 3:24 AM 10/10/2008

[MinisterofDOOM]

...The ZR1 is an amazing car, but the markup over a Z06 is unbelievable, the Z06 offers amazing performance itself at a fraction of the price, as does a GTR (the GTR being quicker to 60 than either, at any rate). Yes, the ZR1 has ring rights and a supercharger which probably give it a significantly different character than either car.

But see, this is exactly my point, you're not seeing the ZR1 for what it is, that's why you think it's too expensive. It has a huge markup over the Z06 because it's NOT a Z06. There's so much more engineering that went into the ZR1. Yes, it's a corvette at it's core, but there's no Z06 left in it. Everything has been reengineered or upgraded. The LS9 alone owes it's existence to a massive amount of development. It's not just an LS3 with a supercharger. It's been massively reengineered. It's a daily-drivable car with a warranty that has a dry sump oiling system for crying out loud. All of that points to a car that can do things that belong in an entirely different world than the things the Z06 can do.

Look at it this way:Mitsubishi Lancer vs Mitsubishi Evo. My argument has always been that the Evo is a stupid car because it's a performance car based off a low-budget POS front-driver. BUT there is NO denying the car's performance potential. And that performance potential earns the car price increase of 100%...even worse than the ZR1's increase, which is less than $50 (msrp anyway). They're both MASSIVE evolutions of the starting product that makes their beginnings irrelevant. The Evo is not a Lancer anymore, nor is the ZR1 a Z06 anymore. To expect to pay the price of a Lancer for an Evo is ridiculous, as is expecting to pay a Z06 price for a ZR1.

We can probably shake hands and say that any Vette, base to ZR1, is still a better performance deal than most Ferraris or Lambos.

Certainly.

[DachshundTooAteEZ]

After driving a C5 and then a C5 Z06, I felt that the Z06 was a totally different car, and definitely worth the hike. A car transformed, definitely.

I suppose I'll have to drive a ZR1 now... But right now, it's hard for that price difference to be justified in my mind. There is such a thing as being too caught up with performance numbers and specs, they're deceiving. But the numbers in my bank account are a bit more definite

[crackler]

It's probably because the Porches driver is actually trying to DRIVE the car, instead of riding along shot gun to the ECU.

[Solar_Runner]

They don't.

It's just funny as hell that they're tripping out over this.

It's even funnier if you're old enough to remember when the GNX spanked the Corvette in late 86... Vette guys were jumping off bridges and hurling themselves in fromt of buses, lol...

Yes I do.

I was at a Friday night drag when a Buick (Heh, I just love saying that it's a Buick) GNX beat a Corvette down the quarter mile. The 'vette dude could not believe it, so raced him twice more - got beat two more times! The crowd was LOVIN' IT.

[dasoupdude]

Whats even more entertaining is seeing Syclones and Typhoons going at it against corvettes as well.

[f1seb]

I love Porsche.......

[ddgsxr504]

They don't.

It's just funny as hell that they're tripping out over this.

It's even funnier if you're old enough to remember when the GNX spanked the Corvette in late 86... Vette guys were jumping off bridges and hurling themselves in fromt of buses, lol...

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

[ADDirishboy]

[dasoupdude]

I love Nissan.

[RCA]

There are some heated debates going on.Here is my take on the whole thing.

It doesn't bother me one bit about the bitterness between Porsche & Nissan.Nissan called out Porsche when they were designing the GTR saying that they were out to beat the GT3s lap times. I can't blame Porsche for being defensive.

Whether or not they did doesn't matter. Nissan built a great car and developed some great technology along the way.

The ZR1 is a monster un-to itself. It has allready beaten the GTRs Nurburgring lap times. But after watching the in-car camera of the record lap made me realize that the ZR1 requires a extremely experience driver with sh*t loads of disapline to drive it. You watch the drivers face and through out the whole lap the guys face shows fear. As if at any moment the car is going to lose traction and spin out.

I feel that if the average Joe was given an oppertunity to drive the GT3, ZR1 and GTR around a track he would yield the best lap times with the GTR. It is a much more forgiving car to drive. That plus it almost drivers itself.

[NSR_s30]

It cracks me up.

[hsckris]

the GTR being quicker to 60 than either, at any rate

Please, prove this. I've seen almost identical times for both. And I don't want to hear "Zomg gtr is 3.3 and zr1 is 3.4" .1 second is nothing and would come down to any number of variances. I've seen times ranging from 3.3-3.9 for both.

The ZR1 is a monster un-to itself. It has allready beaten the GTRs Nurburgring lap times. But after watching the in-car camera of the record lap made me realize that the ZR1 requires a extremely experience driver with sh*t loads of disapline to drive it. You watch the drivers face and through out the whole lap the guys face shows fear. As if at any moment the car is going to lose traction and spin out.

I feel that if the average Joe was given an oppertunity to drive the GT3, ZR1 and GTR around a track he would yield the best lap times with the GTR. It is a much more forgiving car to drive. That plus it almost drivers itself.

Thats b/c the ZR1 is a true drivers car. A proper transmission, and proper fear consider the massive amount of power you are generating. By comparision the GT-R is like computer-fied granturismo sim. Ok maybe thats harsh, but you get the point. Don't get me wrong -- I like both cars, but I'd personally still prefer my sports car to have a proper transmission. AND before you hate: I'll readily admit that I could not drive either anywhere close to a professional. If I could afford to buy one (either one), I could afford to take a class to teach me.

[Red coupe]

You watch the drivers face and through out the whole lap the guys face shows fear.

That's pretty much how you know how badass it is...