How To: Fiberglass Fabrication..... Simple to Difficult

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Broadfield
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I don't usually take pictures of my work, but I thought I would in this case to help demonstrate the custom fabrication of pretty much anything you can dream up. I will show step-by-step process of fiberglass molded panels. From the skeleton beginnings to the final painted product. Keep in mind that a painted product is not always the route I take. Some customers want it vinyl wrapped, carpeted or wrapped in something else.... carbon, Kevlar etc. Using automotive paint as a finish is obviously the most time consuming, considering it has to be perfect. I will update this as I see fit. I am sure I left some things out that might help you. There is obviously a lot of things I purposely left out, but I wasn't going to go over EVERY step and detail. But fell free to ask if you have any questions.

The most important step is your frame work or "skeleton" as I like to call it. This is what you are going to stretch material over to get the shape you want. So you really have to plan out and envision how the material will stretch over it and what shape you are going to have once the material is stretched. You need points to staple or glue the material to and then stretch it to the other sides and staple or glue it over there. Lets start off with some pics so you get an idea and we'll dive in from there. By the way, this is going into a 2003 RX-8....... so it is very limited on trunk space. This customer wanted the sickest looking install in town, so that's what I gave her.

First off the skeleton:

This is mocked up outside the car after I made sure it fit in the trunk. She wanted (4) 8" sub woofers and 3 amplifiers. Give it a nice look without too much stuff crammed in there. This is just the beginning of the skeleton work. I still need to fasten on stretch points for the material.



This pic shows the pieces over the amplifiers which are my stretch points for the amp rack. Material will be stapled to the bottom side of those rectangular cutouts, then stretched to the outside edges of the amp rack.



Back in the trunk to make sure I like what I have so far.



Next I use speaker box carpet to stretch over the amp rack. It is very important to stretch it as tight as possible. This will give you consistent contours, and also prevent it from sagging too much once the resin is laid on. This pic is actually after I poured resin on it and trimmed the edges with a air sander.

So the steps would be:

1)Staple material(carpet, fleece, grill cloth etc.) on one side of skeleton.2)Stretch tight as you pull it to the other side and staple.3)Work your way around the skeleton stretching as you go and making sure it is tight every time you lay a staple. I use a staple every 1/2" or so. Or more where necessary. On this particular piece I actually stapled in the amplifier openings first, then stretched to the outer edges of the rack. You will quickly figure out the best way to stretch and attach your material once you mess with it a little. It will also depend on what type of setup you are stretching over.4)Once all of the material is tight and you are happy with the shape, it is time to resin.5)Mix up a batch of resin and use a cheapo brush to apply it onto your piece. It will soak up a lot, so don't be afraid to use a lot.6)Once it is rock hard and dry, you can use a air sander or grinder to trim the edges clean. I go right through the staples and all.







If needed, you can add fiberglass mat to the backside for extra strength. You will have to decide if your piece requires this or not. You can do as many layers as necessary. I added multiple layers of cloth on the exposed areas on the inside of the enclosures. You can also use this method to seal up gaps, holes etc.





For this install, I needed to get the amp rack to pretty much the final surface grade so I could figure out exactly where the sub enclosures would sit. They hang over the amp rack on each side, so I had to know my final thicknesses so I could continue.

So I sanded the rack down with 80 grit, then sprayed the entire thing with spray bondo. If you have never used spray bondo, it is "the bees knees". You simply spray it on with several coats and let it dry to a rock hard surface. The nice thing about it is that it maintains all of your contours on pieces that are like the ones in this install. If you use standard bondo with a spreader or even your fingers, you lose some of your perfect contours if you get it thicker in some spots etc.





These will come in handy for sanding and shaping. The more you can do with air tools, the better.



This is now sanded with 80 grit and test fit back into the trunk to start the sub enclosures.







Now it's time for the enclosures. We need to work on strecth points around the edges of the enclosure. You will notice the one on the bottom which has a nice flowing radius. I also had to add ones on both sides. The side that meets the amp rack is just a straight up and down piece. The side that meets the back trunk panel needed a step in it. These don't have to be 100% perfect since you are going to be stretch fairly thick material over it. Also, you can add to it later if it doesn't fit exactly the way you want it...... which I will touch on that later.





Now it's time to stretch the enclosure. However, this one is much more difficult. Part of it has to be stretched to the vehicle itself for that perfect fit. So I staple to the bottom and up both sides since those are all stretch points on the enclosure. I then take the material that is left up top and sandwich the rubber boot over the top of it pinching it into the trim. I then slit the carpet over the sub cutouts and stretch it down into the hole as I staple it around my trim ring.

I also had to make a temporary stretch point on the underside of the trunk ledge. I used it to take out the slack between the sub enclosure and the rubber trunk gasket. This is a pic on the passenger side for reference.





Next step is to resin that and trim it so it fits the way you need it to.



All trimmed and back in the car for a test fit.





It had come to my attention that I didn't get both sides stretched exactly alike. I had a bulge in one area that I didn't on the other enclosure. That's the nice thing about working with fiberglass. I just cut it out and put a patch in to get the contour that I wanted.







Next up is the rear trunk panel. It is plastic, so resin will not stick to it.... which is good in this instance. I glued carpet onto it then did the resin trick on it. It had some dips in it because of the huge cavity that was in the panel for the jack etc. So where the carpet dipped down after the resin, I had to add a bunch of bondo to get it nice and level. I then popped it off the original for a perfect duplicate of the original. In some cases, depending on your job, you will leave your original plastic piece in there and not separate them.









Next up, sanding the sub enclosures. I also used a nice ring of bondo around the mounting rings to insure I had a perfect contour around the subs. These had to be sanded with basically one finger.





All that bondo just to fill in these little areas,





Now I pre-fit every thing again. Now we are starting to see what this thing is going to look like.





I also decided that it would be stupid to leave the carpeted trunk lid cover original. Couldn't see opening the trunk to see a bunch of gloss black fiberglass work, only to have a carpet piece overlooking it all. So I decided to use the resin over carpet method on the trunk lid panel. Simply resin it to get it hard, then the usual bondo and sanding to get it ready for the same black paint. Note: As you can see in the pic, I took the trunk lid off the car and then did the resin job. This way the piece wouldn't warp on me if I took it off the trunk 1st. Once the resin starts to set up it will get very warm. So the piece will actually distort as it sets up if it's just a free floating, thin part. The sub enclosures and the like are fine since they are stretched tight and bound by the skeleton.



Now it's time to get the enclosures to fit perfectly up against the rear panel. Sometimes it's impossible to get your piece, in this case the enclosures, to fit perfectly just from the initial stretch. So you can go back in and fill or take away material. In these pics you can see the gaps or where it was impossible to have a smooth transition when I stretched from the rubber trim to the skeleton of the enclosure. I used a product called Kitty Hair to fill in the gaps. It is bondo with fiberglass strands mixed in. So the outcome is whatever shape you want, but with a lot better strength than regular bondo.













Once that dries, you will obviously sand and shape the Kitty Hair to the exact shape you need. Once everything is sanded down to 80 grit and there isn't any huge gouges etc., it's time to spray bondo the rest of the pieces.

Trunk lid panel prepped with 80 grit, then spray bondo. Keep in mind that since this piece is out in the sun, it is getting warm. So once the bondo is dry, you would want to take it back inside and fasten it to the trunk lid before it cools off. This will insure it retains the proper shape.





The rear panel and the enclosures after spray bondo.







After the bondo it's time to sand all of it down to 80 grit again. You also want to make sure that as you sand you rub your bare hand across the surfaces to make sure there are no minor waves. You won't be able to see them, but you will be able to feel them. Because once it is painted with base coat/clear coat, you will see every little wave etc.

At this time I sealed up the back side of the enclosures using a combination of MDF and more fiberglass cloth and resin. They need to be 100% sealed. I also used just straight resin to poor into gaps etc.



I also had the issue of my rear piece flexing out in the sun when it was drying. So it didn't clip to the back edge of the trunk around the latch area like it originally did. So I decided to kill to birds with one stone. I mixed up a really "hot" batch or resin...... so lots of hardener. I used fiberglass cloth to add strength 1st of all. And since the resin gets really hot, it would allow me to bend the piece back to the exact shape I needed. The nice thing is that the resin gets non-tacky to the touch, but is still really hot. So at that time I installed it back into the trunk and temporarily held it in place with whatever means possible. I just had to make sure it was exactly where I wanted it as far as shape and placement. Once the resin fully cures, you can pull it out and it will now keep the shape you want.







Up next, the final piece to the puzzle...... the center section that connects the enclosures. Keep in mind that all of these pieces are separate just so you can get them in and out of the trunk. There is no way in this install that this could of been done in one huge fiberglass monstrosity. I used a thin piece of 1/8" hardboard as a starting point. It's strong and flexible. That way it will bend around the front of the trunk opening and follow that contour.





Making this piece had to be last because I needed the enclosures to be at their final finish grade. This piece is going to lip over the front edges of the enclosures. So I want a perfect seam there.... no gaps. I applied masking tape around the area where I would be spreading in Kitty Hair. It won't stick to the tape, so it works great and has a really minute thickness. So it won't throw off the gap between where the center section meets the enclosure.









After I rough sanded the Kitty Hair down, I took one solid piece of fiberglass cloth and laid it over the center section. Resin this and now you have a really strong piece. The back sections of the Kitty Hair are the only things that really had to stay the way they were. This is the only part that touches the enclosure and had to retain perfect gap tolerances.



Sand and trim the edges for a nice finished piece. This piece was simple enough that spray bondo was not required.



Once you are 100% happy with the way everything fits, it's time for primer. If you are working on little projects, like gauge panels etc, then I would just use spray can primer. In this case, spray gun is the only way to fly. You can also get a lot higher build out of it and it will easily fill pin holes etc.



Now it's time for sanding that down with 240 grit. A really cool trick, no matter how big or small your piece is, is to use a guide coat. Simply take black can spray paint and pepper it over the eniter piece you are sanding. As you sand it will take off the black. It's not good enough until the black is all gone. This way you can identify minor low spots because there will still be black left in there. You will also not keep sanding in the area once the black is gone. You have to try it to see how well it works. If you find any little imperfections or pin holes, now is the time to fill those with thin bondo and sand with 240 grit.







After that I used spray primer again then wet sanded it with 400. You want to make sure you don't break through the primer. It can cause goofy things to happen with the base coat once it is sprayed on.

I used the same technique of the guide coat again. After this is all done, it's time for your final paint. Note: You need to make sure the piece is absolutely perfect





I had my friend paint it since I don't have a ultra low dust free environment. He runs a body shop, so it was just too easy to take it to him.



This where all of your hard work pays off...... finally assembling it all in the trunk for the finished product. Unfortunately it's black, so it's hard to pick up all the details in pics...... but you get the idea.



























Modified by Broadfield at 1:24 AM 1/9/2010
Modified by Broadfield at 1:33 AM 1/9/2010


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EW
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Beautiful.

elo240
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All I can say is WOW. how many hours does it take to do a setup like that? I'm kinda embarrest to even post my setup now.

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xckid
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wish this part of nico got more traffic

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Broadfield
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elo240 wrote:All I can say is WOW. how many hours does it take to do a setup like that? I'm kinda embarrest to even post my setup now.
Thanks man! It's hard for me to keep track of hours since I don't always to work on big projects straight through. I'm sure at least 60 hours.
xckid wrote:wish this part of nico got more traffic
Actually, I posted it in the 240/Silvia forum also.

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How to you ventilate these amps?

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Broadfield
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The MDF behind each amp is completely cut out. That step wasn't done yet in this pic. So the entire heat sink is open on the backside.... which is wide open behind the rear seat. Probably at least a foot and a half by the width of the car behind the amp rack. However, I have been installing JL amps since they started making them, and have never had one overheat in any type of custom install. If so, I would simply add some scroll fans along the heat sinks.

Toby

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twistedsymphony
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I really want to get into fiberglassing, I've been reading a bunch of crap, bought a bunch of supplies and the guy at auto zone saw I was buying resin and gave me a bunch of tips and even showed me his setup.

I've been lurking fiberglassforums.com too, this was an awesome write up, I really appreciate you posting it

I think I understand the process but my biggest problem is.... How do I build the skeleton?

do they make pre-cut rings for standard speaker sizes or other things that can be used for starting points? or am I looking at having to become an expert woodworker before I even start stretching fabric?
Modified by twistedsymphony at 11:46 AM 9/17/2008

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Broadfield
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The skeleton isn't so much that it's hard to construct, but more that it's tough to design depending on your setup. If you are not somewhat comfortable with with wood working, then you probably shouldn't be attempting this type of project. As far as tools go, you will need a jig saw at the very least. A 3" air grinder/sander comes in really handy to grind down corners etc. so you are not stretching over sharp corners, or where you need to modify a stretch point etc. I obviously make everything from scratch, so I use a plunge router to make the mounting rings. You can actually buy them from Select Products, but you are limited to "their" sizes. Just because it fits a 10" sub, doesn't mean it's going to fit "your" 10" sub the exact way you want it. Some subs have a wider, thicker mounting flange. In which case I would flush the sub more than say another brand. So it's nice to be able to make it exactly the way you need it. I do see the convenience of buying them pre-made though in your case. I use a small air powered upholstery trim stapler to fasten the material. I will also use spray adhesive that is fiberglass safe. You can also get that from Select Products. Standard spray adhesive will release once resin hits it. So obviously you don't want your stretched material coming loose while you are laying on the resin. I only use the resin safe adhesive in areas where I can't get the stapler.

Also keep in mind that I have been doing this for 16 years or so, and I STILL learn new and better ways to do things as I do it. You will learn from your own mistakes and the only way to really learn this type of fabrication is to just jump in and do it.

Good luck man!

Call me if you need to discuss things in more detail or post on here if you have any more questions.

Toby

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twistedsymphony
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Thanks for the info, I'll check out Select Products.

I'm not uncomfortable doing wood work stuff just inexperienced at it, and I don't really have any wood working tools. (though I've needed a jig saw for enough crap that I should probably just buy one already) I do have a nice compressor so I'm all setup for air tools already

What do you recommend for wood? As I understand it most sub woofer enclosures are built with MDF because of it's density but do those same rules apply to fiberglass enclosures?

MDF is pricey and heavy, I also noticed you used thick carpet as your fabric. Would I be correct in assuming you used that so you would only have to make 1 layer instead of multiple layers?

Is there a material combination you'd recommend for someone building a setup where weight is a concern?

I definitly wont be jumping head first into a build of this size. My first project is to mold some tweeter mounts into either my kick panels or the triangle piece inside of where the door mirror attaches (decisions on placement is a topic for another thread :P ) Once I'm comfortable I'd like to remold the center console trim piece in my truck to fit a double din head unit instead of a single din and ramp myself up.

I will say after reading this I'm half tempted to rip out the back seats in my S14 and go to town in that area since the back seats are completely useless, and I'd even get to keep my truck space, but I can think of dozens of instances where knowing how to fiberglass would be incredibly beneficial.

One technique I'd love to know is duplication and mirroring. as in if I have a plastic or metal part, how do I make a duplicate in fiberglass. Or if I have a part how do I make an exact mirror image? This would be useful for converting an RHD part to LHD or making copies of something cool you fabbed up, or even making duplicates of rare or expensive OEM parts to experiment with.
Modified by twistedsymphony at 5:00 PM 9/17/2008

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Birch plywood is a good alternative to MDF IMO. Light weight but strong. I would still use 3/4". I have done cars where the entire hatch was full and you could not tell by looking at the outside of the car (suspension not loaded down).

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Broadfield
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Wood doesn't really matter so much. For this project I used combination of MDF, plywood, hardboard and laminated plywood. Basically whatever I have laying around the shop I will use. You will want at least a selection of 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" material. Most of my 3/4' is MDF since that is what I use for standard sub enclosures.

As far as the carpet goes for stretching, I use it because it is thick and will hold a lot of resin on the 1st coat. It will also have a better transition over sharper edges since it is thick. I also use grill cloth on smaller projects or where I need a thin material to get an exact result. Grill cloth will show every little edge etc...... which in some cases you will use it for that very reason. You can also use fleece which will give you about the same affect as carpet. The carpet I use is standard sub woofer enclosure carpet. It stretches nice and won't tear. When picking a material you want to make sure it stretches nicely. You want to stretch it really tight. For a sub enclosure you will have to add fiberglass mat/cloth to strengthen it. You should be able to push on your piece with your thumb as hard as you can with zero flex. The larger the area, the more layers of mat/cloth you are going to need.

On a project like your sail panels, you will probably use a slightly different method than what I outlined here. I would cut a small ring of wood or even a sliver of PVC the diameter of your tweeter. You can super glue this onto you sail panel. Whether you just glue it on flat or angle it is up to you. You can then simply stretch grill cloth over the whole thing then resin it. Pretty simple! If you want to flush the tweeter down in and make a custom grill, then you will have to take that into account.

The dash piece for the double DIN I don't even use fiberglass at all. I use a special plastic glue that is thick and dries instantly. It can be sanded etc. for whatever shape you want. You simply cut out the area for the radio then glue in the trim ring for the radio. You then use this glue to fill in the surrounding areas. Then bondo of course for the final finish. Remember, plastic and fiberglass don't really bond to each other, so you have to keep that in mind. HOWEVER, I have a million tricks of the trade that can get you around certain issue like the whole bonding to plastic problem. If you really have some in depth questions, just call me at the # in my sig.

All of this is just doing it and figuring out what works and what doesn't.

Once you start messing with glass, you will figure out on your own how to make copies, molds etc...... so I want even bother touching on that.

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Great Write UP!!

The info about the guide coat is most helpful. I am going to attempt to paint my car, and in my research I found a lot of references to the guide coat. Seeing it done though really helps me understand it's usefulness.

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Thanks again :D

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Broadfield
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aquaman wrote:Great Write UP!!

The info about the guide coat is most helpful. I am going to attempt to paint my car, and in my research I found a lot of references to the guide coat. Seeing it done though really helps me understand it's usefulness.
Yeah, the guide coat is an amazing "invention", if you want to call it that!
twistedsymphony wrote:Thanks again :D
No problem man! Don't be scared to call me if you have questions.

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awesome work!! ! im planning on removing my rear seats on the vert and fiberglassing the back to fit some speakers and subs in there. i just need to come up with some sort of layout for it. so you may be hearing form me soon for some help!

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Broadfield
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Hit me up man!

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Good write up! Hopefully it will convince some people that working with fiberglass isnt all that hard, just dive in and do it! As Broadfield has shown here, people can do some pretty cool things with fiberglass.

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Nice work as always

It looks like you have the enclosures open, is this just for show? If those are 10w3v3's then don't they require .625 each in sealed enclosures or are you running one out of phase?

Just curious.

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Broadfield
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audtatious wrote:Nice work as always

It looks like you have the enclosures open, is this just for show? If those are 10w3v3's then don't they require .625 each in sealed enclosures or are you running one out of phase?

Just curious.
Seeing as how you are getting old, I can understand how you missed the questions to all of your answers in my writeup.

The enclosures are not open, they are completely sealed. It is one of the last steps I did before primer. I don't do anything just for show....that would be lame.

As stated, they are 8W3v3's, so they take right at .3 cubic feet per sub. Why would I wire one out of phase unless I inverted one on each side!?!

In my 16 years of installing professionally, this is the best 8" sub setup I have ever heard. They easily sound like a pair of 12's.

Any more questions?

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How much was the build?

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Broadfield wrote:
Seeing as how you are getting old, I can understand how you missed the questions to all of your answers in my writeup.

The enclosures are not open, they are completely sealed. It is one of the last steps I did before primer. I don't do anything just for show....that would be lame.

As stated, they are 8W3v3's, so they take right at .3 cubic feet per sub. Why would I wire one out of phase unless I inverted one on each side!?!

In my 16 years of installing professionally, this is the best 8" sub setup I have ever heard. They easily sound like a pair of 12's.

Any more questions?
The pretty pictures distracted me.

You like the 8w3v3's better than the 8w6's? I have unfortunately not followed the JL lineup.....

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Broadfield
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joe603 wrote:How much was the build?
For my labor, so right up until spraying the final base coat/clear coat, and installing all of the gear, speakers etc. was $3000.

The entire build with equipment, labor, wiring, paint, materials etc. was $8900. She also did Hybrid Audio mid-highs..... the best of the best and a double DIN Alpine DVD screen. So those things alone ate up some of the budget. The dash kit for a RX-8 is also over $400 I also used a Alpine Imprint EQ setup and some other odd and ends.
audtatious wrote:
The pretty pictures distracted me.

You like the 8w3v3's better than the 8w6's? I have unfortunately not followed the JL lineup.....
Yeah, yeah I knew you would like the colorful pictures!

There is no such thing as a 8W6 They start at 10's.

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Very cool system! I'm having my system redesigned right now...I had a custom box in a G35 with nice trim touches...nothing like your's though!

Got a question...you use carpet for the fiberglass material?? Seems weird to me...but I'm not an installer. For my new setup, he taped off where the resin would go and applied the resin with the fiber pads. It's making the rear of the enclosures...only on day 2, but I'll post up pics when she's done!

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Broadfield wrote:
Yeah, yeah I knew you would like the colorful pictures!

There is no such thing as a 8W6 They start at 10's.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/8-12W6_BDS.pdf

There _used_ to be an 8w6. Guess I'm too "old school" for ya.

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Broadfield
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joe603 wrote:Very cool system! I'm having my system redesigned right now...I had a custom box in a G35 with nice trim touches...nothing like your's though!

Got a question...you use carpet for the fiberglass material?? Seems weird to me...but I'm not an installer. For my new setup, he taped off where the resin would go and applied the resin with the fiber pads. It's making the rear of the enclosures...only on day 2, but I'll post up pics when she's done!
The carpet is just to get the shape. It also soaks up that first batch of resin really well. So you then have a rock hard surface to add your mat. You then add fiberglass mat as needed for strength. I add the mat to the inside so it obviously doesn't alter the shape on the outside. If I am doing a really tiny project or need an exact shape, I will use grill cloth instead of the carpet.
audtatious wrote:
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/8-12W6_BDS.pdf

There _used_ to be an 8w6. Guess I'm too "old school" for ya.
Dude, those are like from 10 years ago. I can't install a sub that doesn't exist anymore.

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audtatious
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Didn't they come out with 8w6v2's?

Realize I had a original 12w6 (circa 1993) in my Maxima as late as early last year. Hell, I just gave the damn thing away to someone

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Broadfield
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Nope! They only make 10's, 12's and 13's

The W6v2 "is" the new W6

The only other W6 is the one you own..... the original. Which they made in 8's, 10's, 12's, 15's and 18's. And the W3 is actually a better sub than the old W6's.

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audtatious
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I'm sure the new ones are better. I just have fond memories of the old ones

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snake240
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i love fiberglass. def envious of the spray bondo. sweet write up. im currently in the process of doing my door panels, then the rest of my interior.


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