Doesnt 15w50 seem a little thick?

[redsx13]

I read hijackers sr20 faqs, as well as numerous other forums that recommend for the sr20det to use 15w50 motor oil, but i cant help but question the fact that the (fwd)sr20de used in nissans various other jdm and usdm cars uses a much thinner oil. is it just because the sr20det is a FI motor?its funny cuz people look at me like im crazy when i tell them what viscoscity oil i am running.

[DrifterProdigy85]

When mazworx built my engine he recommends me using Valvoline VR1 20w50. I run this till the weather drops down to below 45* outside. Usually run 10w30 in the winter time. I used to run 10w30 on my stock engine all year with no issues. I dont think 15w50 would hurt anything in the warmer months.

[IanS]

I run 15 W 50 in the summer. The heavier oil weight helps deal with the extra heat and load created by the turbocharger. Most FWD SRs do not have turbos, so they run thinner oil.

I would follow this picture, It comes straight from the RWD SR20DET Factory Service Manual. Im pretty sure Nissan decided on these oil weights for a reason.

[NismoDriver240]

soooo the 5w30 i bought and put in is to thin good thing I haven't started it since the swap

[nzmoman]

soooo the 5w30 i bought and put in is to thin good thing I haven't started it since the swap

its not going to harm the motor as long as you aren't running hard all the time. you just want to make sure you monitor your pressure and switch accordingly. Also, I add Zmax to my engine every 2nd or third oil change. that stuff is amazing.

BTW...doesn't altitude play a role in all of this?

[mistamacadamian]

If you live in FL as I do or where temp's are pretty high, think of how hard you run your car and how hot it is inside your engine. using a lighter weight oil will just be like water, using a thicker weight in hot climates im guessing would be better for your engine.

[natguerrero]

no running that weight would be fine ...i ran that in my car for a while with no probsnow im running a 20/50 valvoline fully synthetic

you want to run a thicker oil in a higher revving motor it not only helps the motor but the turbo too......

[codyace]

20w/50 Mobil One here.

10w/30 used to get weaksauce with me on track days. Never again.

[NismoDriver240]

I just called 2 local nissan dealers and they told me they use 5w20 or 5w30. But this all depends on your area, as I said, in MA summers are 80-90 daily and no more than 100 for no more than 2 days in a row. Winters never go below 0, or hardly ever, except with wind chill factor, and daily idk, like in the 30s?? i forget. So if your area sounds like this weather 5/30 should do it... I'd call a dealer and ask

[IanS]

I just called 2 local nissan dealers and they told me they use 5w20 or 5w30. But this all depends on your area, as I said, in MA summers are 80-90 daily and no more than 100 for no more than 2 days in a row. Winters never go below 0, or hardly ever, except with wind chill factor, and daily idk, like in the 30s?? i forget. So if your area sounds like this weather 5/30 should do it... I'd call a dealer and ask

What Nissan dealer would know what oil to use in a SR20DET. Most don't even know what it is.

They told you what oil to use for a SR20DE. Read the picture above, it specifically says not to use 5w30 if the engine will be run in weather above 60 degree's Fahrenheit.

5w30 will be fine for inicial start up, but if you plan on doing anything more than ideling, I would switch to AT LEAST 10w40.

[nzmoman]

I don't race regularly but I ran 5/30 in my first blacktop it was recommended to me by a couple of local drifters. It was summer and fall (95-100 hottest humid days in atlanta). especially downtown in traffic its even hotter. I had it for about 9 months. it never failed or had any problems at all. In fact the person who I sold it to ran the same and he used it mostly for drifting. I got plenty of comments on how clean the internals were (when pulling the valve cover). I was doing oil changes every 2000-2500 miles with royal purple and zmax every so often as stated before.

If damage mostly occurs at startup then the 5/30 would be a better way to go because the engine warms up in two minutes and startup lubrication is better with the 5/30

Also if you are going to call and ask a dealer you need to be sure to ask about a turbo motor. maybe a vg30dett.

"Oil Viscosity

The way that oil viscosity is referred to is by its weight. In this case, "weight" refers to the thickness of the oil and is usually measured with a Zahn cup. Any liquid has some viscosity and that viscosity changes depending on its temperature. Usually, viscosity (thickness) decreases as temperature increases. This also is true of engine oil. Engines need a thin oil at startup, so that it can get to the engine components quickly, but it needs a thicker oil when the engine is hot because a thin oil becomes too thin. This is why engine oils are supplied as dual-grade weights. When you see 10W-30 on a quart of oil, it means that it acts like 10 weight oil when it is cold (the "W" means winter, say -10^C), but acts like 30 weight oil when hot (100^C). This is not to say that it is actually thicker when it is hot. Hot 30 weight oil is thinner than cold 10 weight oil. Even so, it still helps provide the benefits of both types of oil depending on its temperature. So 0W-30 oil acts like 0 weight oil when cold, but maintains a 30 weight viscosity when hot. Think of it this way: when your engine is hot, there is basically no difference between 0W-30, 5W-30, and 10W-30 oil. They are all acting like 30 weight oil at this point. It's at cold startup, when almost all engine wear occurs, that the viscosity is different. The 0 weight oil will get to the engine components quicker than the 10 weight oil, but in reality cold 0 weight oil is still thicker than hot 30 weight oil. On the other hand when the engine is cold, there is no difference between 10W-30 and 10W-40 oil. However when the engine is hot, the 10W-40 oil is thicker than the 10W-30. This is why single-grade oils are very bad. Straight 30 weight oil is way too thick when cold to properly lubricate the engine. The only way to use single weight oil is to have an oil pan heater to bring the oil up to operating temperature (about 140^F or 60^C) before the engine is ever started. If you simply must use it, this type of oil should only be used in race engines with pan heaters.

As far as what oil viscosity is best, it depends who you ask. The fact is that engine oil maintains its viscosity better than ever and synthetics maintain it the best. In my opinion, the best viscosity for all weather is 5W-30. The reason is that both 5W-30 and 10W-30 breakdown at about the same point. Lighter oil can get into places that the heavier oil cannot and will get there more quickly, even when cold, so why go heavier? The only reason would be leaks. If you have oil leaks, a heavy oil will go through them more slowly. That is why you can buy "No-Smoke", which is basically sludge to thicken your oil. If your engine is sealed well, feel free to try Mobil 1's 0W-30 oil. If that "0" really makes you nervous, stick with 5W-30. 10W-30 is unnecessarily heavy when cold."

taken fromhttp://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oil.html

this actual points to 5/30 being no different than 10/30 at high temps, but gets better lubrication at cooler temps. Also, I dont know who wrote this but it seems consistent with things i've heard in conversation with people who race regularly.
Modified by nzmoman at 11:57 AM 7/31/2008

[IanS]

You are missing a few key points.

Bearing clearance, most engines are still running on factory bearings, these bearings have much wider clearances than those of engine built today, not only does this allow thicker oil to enter these spaces freely, it means these engines actually require the thicker oil to prevent bearing shock which will quickly lead to rod knock or crank walk.

Old engines were designed to be used with heavier dino oils, and when switching to synthetics, this should be remembered. Synthetics are inherently thinner than dino's.

Another thing you forgot to mention is heat, most of an engines wear happens at cold start up, this is true, but what about when its hot. If the oil used is too thin, it may not adequately dissipate heat from some area's of the engine, which can also lead damage.

Just because YOU were able to drive your car with 5w30, doesn't mean its the right decision for everyone. You may have talked to a few people who race, and read a few things online, but I can flat out tell you, Nissan has spent billions of dollars on research, and they have an incredibly successful racing career. They have a little more invested in R&D than you do.

How many miles did you put on your SR, and how many of those miles were actually spent drifting?

Do you have an oil pressure gauge, oil temp gauge? How do you know you weren't dangerously close to blowing you motor?

After nearly 80,000 miles of day to day abuse, my stock block SR is still running strong, and I credit thicker oil for getting it thtere.

[NismoDriver240]

What Nissan dealer would know what oil to use in a SR20DET. Most don't even know what it is.

They told you what oil to use for a SR20DE. Read the picture above, it specifically says not to use 5w30 if the engine will be run in weather above 60 degree's Fahrenheit.

5w30 will be fine for inicial start up, but if you plan on doing anything more than ideling, I would switch to AT LEAST 10w40.

I made certain they meant sr20deT from japan. I emphasized it and repeated myself. I cant see the picture above because photobucket is blocked from my work for some reason.

EDIT: I managed to see the pic... so I'll swap oil with 10w30 or 40, but honestly, what is the difference between 5 and 10w, is it really that big?

[DrifterProdigy85]

Just end the debate and run 10w30 Full Synthetic. I like Mobil One or Valvoline. I ran 10w30 for 3 years on a 400hp SR and never had any oiling issues. Thats in PA weather conditions where it can be 10* on winter mornings and 100* on summer days.

[nzmoman]

There is really no huge difference. The damage that happens is going to happen because that is the nature of an engine that is starting up after the oils have settled.

If you are running a 30 or a 40 then that will cover your heat range. The reason I posted that article is becaue it points this out. the 5 or 10 matters at startup. the 30 or 40 (second number) matters when you are at a normal or above operating temperature. In other words you are fine with a 5/30 or 10/30. but NOT a 5/10 or 5/20. That will not function well under heating.

FlatBlackIan.

you pointed out that Nissan has spent Billions on research. More than likely they have not. most combustion motors fall within a category of something that has already been done. If you look at the charts for other motors you will notice some striking similarities. These charts are generic and provide an idea for people they are not the rules in stone.

BTW Im posting for the OP who wants to know. You gave him info and I gave him info. Not everyone is going to just switch their oil because of a chart in Nissans book. The facts are that the numbers on those oils mean something. If you are talking about the temperature of a motor that is warmed up then you need to look at the second number in this case the 30 or 40. That is the number that is going to tell you how that oil will stand up to abuse...not the first number. The first number doesn't even matter much after the first two minutes of driving.

I have yet to see the post where someone has had detrimental damage because they ran 5/30 over 10/30. OP...You simply need to know what people with a similar driving style and experience in your area are running and run that. Don't try to make people think their motors are going to blow if they run one or the other. Chances are very slim to non that that will happen.

thats all I'm sayin' no need to get all argumentative. this is called a forum because people can come to discuss things.

[ryan15]

I made certain they meant sr20deT from japan. I emphasized it and repeated myself. I cant see the picture above because photobucket is blocked from my work for some reason.

EDIT: I managed to see the pic... so I'll swap oil with 10w30 or 40, but honestly, what is the difference between 5 and 10w, is it really that big?

I work at a dealership, and I can honestly say that a dealership would not know and defenetly care to go out of there way to answer this question, its just some bs they came up with on the top of theirs heads. Just because the fact your on US soil with an SR does not change the type of oil thats needed.

Ryan

[redsx13]

The reason a company chooses a certain type of oil is mainly because of clearances within the motor along with the running temperature of that motor .

I dont think it has much to do how high they rev, if it did, all high reving vehicles (e.g. honda s2000) would run 15w50+. (although synthetic oil is often used)

i also dont think it has much to do with the fact that it has a turbo , if it did, all turbo vehicles (e.g. evo, sti) would run 15w50+.(although synthetic oil is often used)

and lastly, i dont think it has much to do with the fact it is a high performance motor if it did, all performance cars (e.g. ferrari, porsche, lamborghini), would run 15W50+ (although synthetic oil is often used)

BUT if the sr20de and the sr20det were designed the same, and both have the same internal clearances, what is missing?

[IanS]

The reason a company chooses a certain type of oil is mainly because of clearances within the motor along with the running temperature of that motor .

I dont think it has much to do how high they rev, if it did, all high reving vehicles (e.g. honda s2000) would run 15w50+. (although synthetic oil is often used)

i also dont think it has much to do with the fact that it has a turbo , if it did, all turbo vehicles (e.g. evo, sti) would run 15w50+.(although synthetic oil is often used)

and lastly, i dont think it has much to do with the fact it is a high performance motor if it did, all performance cars (e.g. ferrari, porsche, lamborghini), would run 15W50+ (although synthetic oil is often used)

BUT if the sr20de and the sr20det were designed the same, and both have the same internal clearances, what is missing?

Mainly + not much + not much + not much = everything

You need to realize, that all the other engines you quoted, are new. Everyone is switching to thinner oils, to achieve better economy. Look at muscle cars, they were not high reving, they did not have turbos, and most were not meant for performance, yet most old V8s require at least 15w50 if not 20w50 to keep the bearings from eating themselves. The SR20DET was designed at least 20 years ago, its old, and Nissan spec'd thicker oil for a reason.

you pointed out that Nissan has spent Billions on research. More than likely they have not. most combustion motors fall within a category of something that has already been done. If you look at the charts for other motors you will notice some striking similarities. These charts are generic and provide an idea for people they are not the rules in stone.

Not everyone is going to just switch their oil because of a chart in Nissans book. The facts are that the numbers on those oils mean something. If you are talking about the temperature of a motor that is warmed up then you need to look at the second number in this case the 30 or 40. That is the number that is going to tell you how that oil will stand up to abuse...not the first number. The first number doesn't even matter much after the first two minutes of driving.

I have yet to see the post where someone has had detrimental damage because they ran 5/30 over 10/30. OP...You simply need to know what people with a similar driving style and experience in your area are running and run that. Don't try to make people think their motors are going to blow if they run one or the other. Chances are very slim to non that that will happen.

I guarantee Nissan has spent billions on R&D. They know more about that engine than anyone,. They didn't just let some kid pick out a picture for that page for the FSM, they chose it because they felt it fit the need of that specific engine.

No not everyone will switch, but many of them wont switch because they dont know, they will use 10w30 because they just dont know what is supposed to go in there.

Your information is useful, but if you don't know what weights were meant to be used, understanding what the numbers mean does you absolutely no good. I understand oil weights, but that does not tell me what oil belongs in my engine.

I personally have seen three, that right three knocking engines show up in my parking lot because one of the lube techs put 5w30 in them, the first was a 67 skylark, the second a 64 impala, and the last was a 74 bonneville. Those engines NEED a thick oil, and in my eyes the SR is no difference.

That being said, I have also seen 2 dropped warranties, because one of the lube techs put 5w30 in an engine that's spec'd for 5w20. People had their oil changed, then they went to the dealer for warranty work. When the dealer tested their viscosity, and found it was not in spec, both warranties were voided. Both were newer Ford vehicles.

You think that SRs are okay with thinner oil, yet have provided absolutely no good information backing this up. All you have is your singular experience, and the hearsay of a few drifting fanboi's.

People blow up SRs all the time, 99% will never know why, they just want it fixed. They wont take the time to autopsy the engine to find out exactly what failed. Bearings don't just fail, I would put money on the fact that the majority of people who have experienced rod knock, were running oil too thin for their driving conditions.

This is not arguing, this is discussing. If it was arguing, I would be making fun of you, and I would be a lot meaner. You made a statement and I'm contesting it.

[nzmoman]

you pointed out that people blow up their engines all the time. I know plenty of people who run 10/30 and 10/40 who have blown their motors. I really would like for you to show me that this is because of engine oil and not because of over boosting, over revving, racing, improper assembly etc. Even on the chart provided above there is a place of where you could use a 5w or 10w.

I speak of my experience because that is what I know of as FACT. So far I see a lot of hypothetical "instances where people have had engine failure, but you have not factually shown that the failure is relative to the topic of their oil viscosity" In the cases you mentioned its all speculative. I would like for you to show me where someone ran 5/30 and blew up their engine because of that. Now as I said before. I was not a heavy racer by any means. Also, I never said that the drifters were running 5/30. I dont know what they ran, but they knew my driving habits and they made a suggestion that caused me 0 problems. So thats what I ran. That is FACT. The person who purchased the car after me had 0 problems...I don't know what he ran, but I know he beat the hell our of it and it was still kickin.

Also, lets point out that the people who had the wrong viscosity of oil in the dealer were not there because their engine failed. So the fact that they lost their warranty is a technicality that most sr owners would face were a warranty involved. If we followed that chain of thought then we would never remove emission equipment, or run without catalytic converters, or upgrade turbo's injectors etc. These are all warranty voiding things that lead to a shorter lifespan for your motor. Try having a warrantied SR20 and going to a dealer with a 2871r in it. They will void your warranty for that too, but it doesn't mean your engine is going to die. 90+% of the things you do with an SR20 will void your warranty.

either way I think most people will get the picture and make up their minds accordingly. It seems that you and I have

[moyea]

Dude, its not that complicated. I find it funny reading all these post on the same subject. Open your owners manual, look at recommended viscosity, and make a choice (Synthetic). Easy pezy!

Now, if your doing more than just using the car as a daily driver then consider my experiences:

I've used 20 oil for qualifying, dyno runs, and sprints with great effectiveness.

30 and 40 for all around driving.

50 or 60 for sustained high speed driving.

If your racing, consider race oil (XPR, Joe Gibbs, etc). If not, street oil is just fine (Mobil1, Valvoline, etc). If your wondering the difference just do a search and your own research. (hint: it has to do with friction and additives)

I've used straight and multi-visc oils and they all do the same thing. Warm up your oil to operating temps, especially if you use a straight oil, before you do a run. So to answer your original question, No its not. Just depends on what you're doing.

On an unrelated matter, go to a track event and ask around. You would be surprised what you'll see people run. Vettes running 30 oil, Porches running 20w50, etc. And at my job they run 15w40 all year round, even at 40 below.

[redsx13]

Just a quick update for you guys. i ended up buyin full synthetic mobil 1 15w50. anyway, i left it next to my car (in my driveway) while i went to go find my oil drain pan, but when i got back to my car about 15 min's later, the gardeners stole all my oil! i really hope their lawnmowers blow up.

[nzmoman]

haha sorry thats just funny..maybe they though it was for one of their pieces of equipment?

[NismoDriver240]

that sucks dude, tell them to pay for it.

All the shops I've been talking to have all said 10w30, and my 5w30 will be ok til my first oil change. we all have different views and we all run different shiz but everything needs to be factored in, temperature and the like, so of course itll be different person to person.

[xsublimefrekx]

i use 15w-30 non synthetic all day in my built sr, i beat the **** out f it all day everyday and i never have any serious problems. The motor is so clean inside i would eat off it.

[nzmoman]

i use 15w-30 non synthetic all day in my built sr, i beat the **** out f it all day everyday and i never have any serious problems. The motor is so clean inside i would eat off it.

wow...

[IanS]

i use 15w-30 non synthetic all day in my built sr, i beat the **** out f it all day everyday and i never have any serious problems. The motor is so clean inside i would eat off it.

Your engine is clean inside because it has been recently disassembled, not becuase of what oil you use. My current engine has never been rebuilt, and Ive put 80,000 miles on it, if I pop the valve cover, its as clean as can be. Because I take care of it, not because of the oil weight.

[codyace]

As long as you beat the **** outa the car, and change the oil, SR's will always look factory fresh/golden under the cover.

It's those dingbats thta putz around DDin their cars and not changing the oil that have the issues

Again, Iuse 20w/50 in my car. Track/Street no different.