Futuristic? Not even CLOSE.

Current? Maybe.

Looks much the same as it did in 1984, when it WAS "futuristic".

Absolutely I would say the same of the 911. It's VERY much the same as it was in 1976, but it has (IMO) "aged" much better.

Quote, originally posted by Jesda »

You're so caught up in GTR fever that you've lost sight of market realities.

Far from it - I'm a closet skeptic on the GTR.

I just understand the market as a WORLD market, not a US market - You, a student of the automotive market, a critic of all that is failed in Detroit, a connoisseur (at least on paper) of what "works" and what doesn't, you of all people can grasp that.

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How in the world is that relevant to your irrational fist-pounding over how the Corvette will suddenly become marginalized, unpopular, and lose its iconic status? You're seeing the sports car market as a narrow band in which purchases are made solely on specifications.

That is NOT the case, because the vast majority sports car purchases are made out of EMOTION -- typical of a non-essential luxury good. An icon is an icon, and its history is a tremendous part of that reputation.

The GTR new to America, regardless of what JDM fans may already know.

Remember folks, whats popular on NICO CLUB is, believe it or not, often unpopular elsewhere, just as the Corvette has fought for acceptance in Europe.

The civic is an icon as well. Deal with it. Now go join honda-tech forums

Every enthusiast I know knows the GT-R. Muscle car enthusiasts, European car enthusiasts and of course Japanese car enthusiasts. The GT-R is NOT for the average person, and it's known by any true automotive enthusiast.

Right.

And what's popular and iconic in America is often seen as irrelevant and laughable in other countries.

The Corvette is popular ONLY in America.

All I said was this: the styling is bland, performance is beatable, and build quality is questionable.

I never said "OMGTEHGTRISTEHGREATEST".

It WILL steal 'vette sales (which are sucking right now anyway).

While 'vette buyers may buy based on emotions, they SURE love to truck out the stats, so don't be too sure that they're not reading.

The GTR does not covet lusting outside of enthusiast circles, where people know exactly what it is. And be informed that sports car buyers, an emotional bunch with more money than knowledge, are not all sports car enthusiasts.

You and I, despite neither of us owning any $60,000 sports cars, know more about them and the corporations that build them than the typical Rich Guy Joe who walks into a Maserati dealer.

Take a survey of the world's population, ask which they'd rather have. Between the Corvette and GTR, they'll choose the only vehicle they actually know. Why? Its not because the GTR is an inferior product. Its because of culture, popularity, history, and media.

You are asserting that the GTR is a threat to the Corvette's iconic status, and you are wildly exaggerating the GTR's popularity outside of Japan. That COULD change, but it won't happen unless the GTR becomes an aspirational object. Being a brilliant sports car isnt enough to become an icon.

Despite the Corvette's worst years, its past mechanical flaws, and design duds, the "icon" status has remained firm. The GTR doesnt have the same advantage, because of its absence from the largest and wealthiest auto market in the world. There's decades of Chevy Corvette and Porsche 911 lust, coveting, and desire to catch up to.

Sorry Greg, I agree with some of what you're saying, but unseating an icon takes more than a great car.

Modified by Jesda at 7:30 AM 8/20/2007

Speculation is fun. We get to have discussions.

+1

This being sort of the POINT of forums, that, and I suppose technical knowledge.

At any rate, I agree that the GTR's worldwide success won't go very far in making it popular here with the kind of people who will have the money to buy them, but as I and others mentioned above, it won't matter because they will make so few in ALL years of production that the things will get snapped up on waiting lists year after year.

It will take 8-10 years before Nissan is comfortable enough with US perceptions of the GTR to try and sell anywhere near as many here as they sell in Japan (i.e. approaching Corvette numbers, at least in a "per capita" sense).

My KAE-T Build Thread Updated 10/26/2007

So...does whoever guess correctly win some sort of prize that will boost your ego? If so I'll pass. If it will boost my wallet then I'll participate. Otherwise I'll just wait for it to arrive

No... but sharing opposing view points and discussing them allows a person to test his or her line of thought verses another persons thoughts and hopefully enable all parties involved to make more informed statements in the future.

There was some talk about the car being purchaced as a weekend toy? 4 seats + 4 drive wheels = 365 days of fun a year in my book.

Recent study shows that 92% of all teenagers converted to emo/punk etc. Put this in your sig if you're one of the 8% who stayed gangsta as shlt.

http://www.myspace.com/ononewheel
if nissan's racing team in NISMO, then hondas must be HOMO

sexiest car ever!!!!! http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=265914

Now as for its sales against the corvette, that will definitely be a toss up. I think that they each have their own market as there is no targa or convertible gtr. i will say that from a pricing aspect, the vette will have the edge seeing as how a normal c6 doesn't have a dealer markup like what these GTR's will have.

as for going up against 911's, a porsche owner is a porsche owner. alot of people that own a 911 own one because they either wanted it because they owned the hotwheels version of it when they were little or because they want to make a statement. the GTR definitely doesn't have the yuppy appeal that a 911 carries since it has never been in the states.

Finally, the whole issue of what it should be badged as. Granted it being an infiniti would mean that most people walking into the dealership could probably afford it, it just wouldn't fit into the infiniti line up. Infiniti is all about luxury and this car is not focused on luxury. My only question will be for when this car goes into the dealership for service. I personally have seen what goes on in the service departments of nissan dealerships here in south florida and trust me there are FAR and FEW great mechanics that should even be allowed to hold a wrench. Granted the car shouldn't be in the dealership for more than oil changes and brake replacements, but if there are any serious issues that end up plaguing the car, good luck to that owner getting his car serviced in the proper manner.

Yep. And Jesda's one of the few people who I can disagree with and still know deep down that he's not full of s***.

I know my car better than most of the techs at my dealership, and that's simply sad. Hell, I hang out with the foreman (20 years with Nissan) and he tells me some horror stories...

then I can pick one up in few years cheap (think of the NSX.. values drop like a rock even though it's a great super car)

Corvette has been picking up quite well the last few years in Europe. It was a matter of improving the overall perception of quality to the public, and getting the GM dealerships in Europe on board with marketing the car to Europeans. Also, the C6 was the first generation that was designed towards the European driving characteristics(and tested @ the Nueranburg(I hate spelling it as I NEVER get it right and too lazy to look it up)). Like Nissan, GM focused the majority of it's corvette sales, in America where Corvette was born and nurtured for generations. Now, however, you can see Corvette events popping up all over Europe. People are importing C1, C2's, C3's, and C4's to Britain, Germany, and other countries, then hosting events where thousands of these cars that were never sold in Europe, have ended up. When several hundred corvettes show up for an all corvette event in Britain, you know there are people that love them. My cousin Chris, who's family is from Germany, tells me all the time about how Germans love Corvettes. I'd bet there's quite a few more corvettes in Germany, than all generations of skylines that came out of Japan.

Car enthusiasts might know alot about the GT-R, but your average person does not. The average person DOES however, know about the Corvette. It has 55 years of history. Granted most of that is in America, but there's alot of history in Europe too, not to mention the recent successes this past decade at Lemans with the C5R, and C6R.

Might I add, that the ZR-1 when it came out in 1990, blew everybody away around the world, with it's performance.

As to the newer corvettes being out-dated....

I 100% disagree with you Greg.

(for those that have good eyes, I'm parked next to a 78', 25th anniversary C3 that belongs to a gal I know quite well who also owns an old Porsche 911)

<- owned a '73

Ummm, exqueeze me?

The NSX holds its value like crazy. Hell, even the early ones are still commanding big bucks.

2006:

22 years of innovation? Nope.

Trust me, I don't hate the car. I'm a fan. Always have been.

But the reality is, Detroit needs to take a giant leap soon or the supercars from Japan will take a bite out of sales.

4.08 VLSD, NICO 8-way ECU, full exhaust with custom headers,
Tokico Blues with Eibach springs, Stillen FSTB, 20mm RSB

One of the best drivetrains in the world, wrapped in a disappointing package.

Imagine the LSx with some of the innovations we're seeing in recent V6 engines from Toyota and Nissan... Frightening.

Older ns-x's are going for ~$20-25k ish

As for the corvette discussion, everyone is entitled to their opinion about the corvette but my only quim with that car will be its interior. great motor, great handling, and the true definition of a sports car that doesn't break the wallet. GM has made leaps and bounds with the corvette so i can't really see where the bashing of it can be sourced from. EVERY single update (C4, C5, C6) has been a tremendous improvement on the previous model. Does this make it a better car than the GTR? No, but it will definitely NOT lose sales due to people running next door to the nissan dealership to get a GTR. As said before in this thread, there are different types of buyers for those cars.

The Corvette looks the way it does because Corvette buyers want it to look that way. GM has been itching to do a mid-engined Corvette for years but it will NEVER be the primary model because Corvette buyers want:

-To be able to fit 2 golf bags in the back
-To be able to comfortably daily drive it (many vettes are DD's, hence all the auto trans vettes out there)
-A car that LOOKS like "a Corvette", which is to say "along the same path of evolving the C4 aesthetic of the last 20 years"
-A simple OHV V8 that makes lots of low end and is inexpensive

The C7 might well have a mid-engined aluminum/carbon-bodied variant that will slot in where the Blue Devil will be for the C6. It will NEVER replace the base model however, which will forever be FR, OHV, FRP-bodied, etc...

At the end of the day, the fact that the base C6 laps so quickly is something of a function of there being no other real competitors out there in the price range. GM isn't TRYING to necessarily build the fastest-lapping track dominator for $40k, they're trying to build something that Corvette buyers will want to own.

If someone else wants to come along and engineer a wild tech-laden vehicle for roughly the same price that will lap a little faster and then sell it in small numbers to people who will track it, it won't really change anything. It won't be competition, it isn't the same sort of car, it's trying to do something else entirely.

Oh, and NSX's do hold their value astoundingly, given what they are. A NICE 1991 NSX still sells for $30k, and what did they cost new in 91, like maybe $50-60k? That's pretty amazing......

*miserable attempt @ trying to get back on topic

All that said, its gonna come down to the test drive, support (Vette will undoubtedly win this, but we'll see), reliabilty, and if all els fails, dealer experience. To be honest, I have always wanted a vette, and a 911 as well. The GTR is a new up-and-comer in my eyes (now that it is attainable that is). Time will tell.

And the vette style might be dated, but it does have modern flares, and timeless body lines. There are many cars that I wish kept their body lines, and Corvette did it, so props to them. Lots of cars coming out now-a-days (or previous generations) look like crap compared to their predacessors (think the new WRX).

Hell I'd love to have a GT-R, a C6 Z06, and a GT3 Porsche sittting in a garage with my name on the titles. Would be one ballin' garage you'd have to admit that. However, since I can't afford any of them without selling off everything, I'll stick with what I have now.

Now carrying Nardi and Personal steering wheels and Works Bell hubs! Also new, SPLPARTS adjustable arms and much much more!