Group Buy Feeler: AMS/Turbo240 Fully counterweighted Crank

[Chris@AMS]

I have the opportunity to bring this crank into reality if there is enough interest in it. I would be willing to run a group buy in order to get the ball rolling on this thing. Here are the specs which are currently available.

4340, fully machined billet constructionStraight oil holes, (each rod recieves its own oil feed from a main journal, unlike the factory crank.

Pricing would be as follows

Single crank, $1600 + ship5 People, $1400 + ship10 People, $1300 + ship

Post up your interest, one way or another, I've had some reports saying that we would have 5 people in on it no problem...

I already have one person who is in on the GB if it goes through...I'll probably get one too!

1. Ivan2. Chris3. BigVinnie
Modified by Chris@AMS at 9:56 AM 7/18/2007

[bone_stock_240]

Holy crap, I wish I had the money. This will bring a whole new *** kicking to the KA.

[S13FX]

Hey Chris this sounds like a great deal.

You think you can also make a little description on how a fully countered weighted crank can give us a advantage instead of the stock setup.

I'm sure it might also help with getting people a lil more interested if they understand the reasoning behind it.

Thanks,Mike

[pr240sx]

Nah....I rather buy the intake manifold for that price.

[Bigvinnie]

This crank shaft will make the KA24de-t an sr20det killer. I'm getting it strictly for NA use only , I know this will increase peak HP further in the RPM range rather than the 5500RPM drop off. Were talking about new rev possibilities for the KA, and a stronger dyno curve.

[ace0073]

Questions, questions, questions .

First off, could you please explain the difference between/advantages of a stock configured crank and a fully-counterweighted crank?

I am a little confused on the subject.

I know the more people you ask a question the more answers you will get .

I just got off the phone with an engine builder and got some confusing info.

I called Import Performance about their KA stroker kit and asked if there particular crank was fully counterweighted?

answer: we use the stock crank and modify and heat treat it so no.

Then I asked if it will be a problem?

answer: you do not need a fully counterweighted crank in a 4-cylinder (or straight six)it makes NO difference. Not safer, no more revs; its unecessary.

Then he goes on the explain how he only knows of 3 fully counterweighted 4-cyl cranks that were offered (factory), blah, blah, blah!

Can I get some facts?

Im not sure if he said that to promote his kit or if he is keeping it real with me.

All that being typed, if I could know the details and advantages/disadvantages of having this crank I would be a lot more liable to order one.

Also can this crank be ordered as a stroker crank? who is it made by? whats the lead time?

EDIT:I edited this post to be More readable, since I like the questions and facts you stated in here.

Mike (S13FX)

[titec2]

I don't know how your builder is but I can think of more that three fully counter weighted cranks from one auto manufacturer: All "B" series hondas, All "D" series hondas and all "k" and "F" series are all fully counter weighted. Oh and the "H" series as well. I have spoken with Brian Crower and he to is looking at supplying a fully counter weighted stock throw crank as well as the stroker that he already has.

Long story short I am very interested.

Furthermore. one of the problems that the KA has is a harsh harmonic at the 7k to 7.5k range. With the use of a fully counter weighted crank the extra mass and the true balance I think it may help.

Brian Crower already offers a fully counter weighted stroker kit for the KAhttp://www.briancrower.com/

Modified by titec2 at 1:21 PM 7/19/2007
Modified by titec2 at 1:24 PM 7/19/2007

[ace0073]

The engine builder actually did state k-series as one of his engines with the fcw crank. nonetheless, even if there are more than three......what is the true gain here? i mean, all things considered, i am not a professional racer, i am not a sponsored racer, i am not doing this for a living. That being considered, do i need a fcw crank? will it make the difference for me to spend the extra cash? the BC kit is the first one that i saw and after doing an internet search, i found IPP. I called them to find out what the differences were between the two kits since the price diff is over $1000. what I found was the main diff is IPP reworks the stock crank while BC has a billet one. Thats when I asked and received the above info from IPP. Just looking for facts regarding this option....not opinions or speculations.......what are the advantages/disadvantages of running a FCW crank in a 4-cylinder engine? Does it really make a difference and is that difference extreme or even noticable?

[Bigvinnie]

Questions, questions, questions .

First off, could you please explain the difference between/advantages of a stock configured crank and a fully-counterweighted crank?

First off the differences between half weighted and fully counter weighted. Both cranks are of course fully balanced. But in the manner in which they are balanced the inertia can spin and direct more power to the outer axis of the shafts (Halfweighted crank). Or the weights can be evenly distributed through out the crank not just at the axis or end of the snout and flywheel (fully counterweighed crank). What makes fully counterweighted cranks more popular is the evenly distributed weights across the crank. This reduces torsional stress and flex (which reduces disruptive harmonics at higher RPM that eat up HP and torque). Now anything that would create torsional stress or flex is consuming energy that could of been used in more momentum. Positive momentum makes more HP and torque. A halfweighted crank can not perform at the level that a fully counter weited crank can because having the weights only at the outer ends of the crank allows flexing to ocvur between the center of the crank or when down ward piston momentum is applied at the ends of the crank. Which in most cases the crank snout can snap or a rod can be thrown.Overall in a fully counterweighted crank the bearing loads are reduced.

I am a little confused on the subject. I called Import Performance about their KA stroker kit and asked if there particular crank was fully counterweighted?

answer: we use the stock crank and modify and heat treat it so no.

Then I asked if it will be a problem?

answer: you do not need a fully counterweighted crank in a 4-cylinder (or straight six)it makes NO difference. Not safer, no more revs; its unecessary.

Then he goes on the explain how he only knows of 3 fully counterweighted 4-cyl cranks that were offered (factory), blah, blah, blah!

The guys at import performance have no clue what they are talking about only the best of all the four cylinder engines in there class make more peek HP and Torque.

Research the DATSUN/Nissan FJ24 engineHonda/Acura K24a enginesDodge SRT-4 engines use fully counterweighted cranks.Even the SR20det uses a fully counterweighted crank and can run in to higher RPMs than the KA.

All the greatest 4 banger street cars that used fully counterweighted cranks dominate any that are half weighted.

Also can this crank be ordered as a stroker crank?

The KA crank is already a stroker crank at 96mm. I don't know why any one would want to stroke it anymore than that since it would decrease rev and increase redline. Brian Crower claims there kit to be a stroker kit which technically it is slightly stroked to 102mm.

Here is an article you should read to educate yourself a bit on fully counterweighted and AERO crank shafts. Hopefully this article will help you grasp the concept of why a fully counterweighted is desprately needed in the KA engine.http://www.circletrack.com/tec...ology/ ... ec....html

Edited: I originally stated the Brian Crower Crank was 91mm, after reading over the specs it is 102mm, with up to a 91mm bore. Have to make the correction.


Modified by Bigvinnie at 12:15 PM 7/31/2007

[greensx]

What's the time period on getting the money together and how long would it be before we get the crank lmk very interested

[frsh13]

No need for one now, but if you guys stock this part and have it around when I build my motor (eventually I will). Id buy one.

[Bigvinnie]

No need for one now, but if you guys stock this part and have it around when I build my motor (eventually I will). Id buy one.

Thats the problem though this is a feeler product to see if it's worth selling in the future. We need people that are willing to pay for it now, this product may not be offered later. Or there is the chance that the product will be marked up as a specialty product.

[Chris@AMS]

There is currently no time period for the group buy as it is not yet official. I am merely judging interest in the product to see if we can get an order going.

The lead time on the crank, once I give them the go ahead is about 6 to 8 weeks I believe. I will have to reconfirm this with them if I put in the order.

If the group buy ends up going through, I may buy a couple extra. Either that, or they will be available as a build to order part for considerably more money.

[ace0073]

very good info, appreciate it!!

[480sx]

Id take one, but it would have to be later in the fall, or twords the end of the summer. The way things are going it seems like it might come into our world about then anyway.

Make sure you keep us updated, i personally would rather have one of these than an intake manifold. I can make an intake manifold with a nice fat plenum and stock runners, but a FCW crank...? Thats not saying i dont want a manifold however .

Unfortunately the post says how many people can pay for one now but.. Meh, still thought id toss my thoughts in on it. It would turn a Ka into a nasty 4 banger. Throw one of these with forged internals and some aggressive cams and see a nice, torqued out 4 cyl that still makes power into 6-7g range.

[greensx]

I'm down for one also just let us know when the group buy is going to kick off. So i can start saving my money for it

[Bigvinnie]

I'm down for one also just let us know when the group buy is going to kick off. So i can start saving my money for it

The group buy starts now!!! I made $1200 in the last 3 days just to start stacking chips in hopes we get enough people for the $1300 deal...Chris by any chance if we were able to get 20 people on the group buy could we get the crank at a lower price like lets say....$1100, plus shipping? I think that would make this group buy thing come along much faster.

[Charlie240sxt]

Hell i might throw in if you guys get it down to 1200 + shipping i welded my *** off few xtra hours now have burnt eyes and am seeing double

[fuzionfuka]

IF companies started dong more R&D on the KA like this, then i might play with one. Its cheaper than a 1j/2jz setup, and cheaper to replace if boom happens. I would be down to buy something like that (the crank) because that was my biggest issue. Shops telling me the motor wont last that long at high hp or boost period because,of the bad vibration it has at high rpm and it will eventually eat itself up. Am I Correct?

[steve s14]

I would definitely be interested in this, i would slap that thing on my credit card if i had to!

[Bigvinnie]

IF companies started dong more R&D on the KA like this, then i might play with one. Its cheaper than a 1j/2jz setup, and cheaper to replace if boom happens. I would be down to buy something like that (the crank) because that was my biggest issue. Shops telling me the motor wont last that long at high hp or boost period because,of the bad vibration it has at high rpm and it will eventually eat itself up. Am I Correct?

You are correct the GT3 ka engines live off of hours used, not miles driven. The rings go through some pretty bad wear and tear with the halfweighted crank.
Modified by Bigvinnie at 10:47 PM 7/26/2007

[480sx]

Has the buy started? When is the final have money by date?

[180sx]

YA ALL maxed out the existing power band already >? Cuz i don't see why you want want to rev higher if you can still turn up the boost and gain power in the existing 3000-7000rpm band. Not to get into the final cost vs hp gain.

and doesn't nismo make one for ka24e already? Same unit will work on de will it not?

[Bigvinnie]

YA ALL maxed out the existing power band already >? Cuz i don't see why you want want to rev higher if you can still turn up the boost and gain power in the existing 3000-7000rpm band. Not to get into the final cost vs hp gain.

and doesn't nismo make one for ka24e already? Same unit will work on de will it not?

The harmonics of the KA crank shaft are limited to its power output. You would see added power along with the rev with the fullycounterweighted crank shaft. This would also probably show upto 1000whp KA24de's, instead of maxed out 700WHP KA's. (based on speculation)The NISMO crank shaft could be modified for the DE block, several problems with the NISMO crankshaft is it's extremely expensive price tag as well as the purchase of rods and pistons to make it a complete bottom end assembly, as the journal sizes on the NISMO crank are reduced in diameter to reduce friction, for higher rev upto 9000RPM. From what I understand Paul told me the NISMO crank is much heavier than the stock crank shaft, that may limit how fast it will rev from it's MOI's. Chromolly seems the best suited for a basic drop in application.

[rn240sx]

This crank shaft will make the KA24de-t an sr20det killer.

R u serious..?? The ka has always been an sr20 killer... Where have u been hiding..?? The problem is most of the people out there WITH money spend it on the sr20. Meanwhile the ka stays in the dark cause nobody wants to spend that kind of money on it... Too many worthless rumors on this motor & that is what holds everyone back..

Quote »I know this will increase peak HP further in the RPM range rather than the 5500RPM drop off. Were talking about new rev possibilities for the KA, and a stronger dyno curve.[/quote]I run mine to 7500 rpm I can feel the power continue to build as i get up there... U just need a GOOD flowing manifold with a GOOD turbo.

[Bigvinnie]

R u serious..?? The ka has always been an sr20 killer... Where have u been hiding..?? The problem is most of the people out there WITH money spend it on the sr20. Meanwhile the ka stays in the dark cause nobody wants to spend that kind of money on it... Too many worthless rumors on this motor & that is what holds everyone back..

I run mine to 7500 rpm I can feel the power continue to build as i get up there... U just need a GOOD flowing manifold with a GOOD turbo.

Not as far as rev goes, but as far as peak power to psi yes....

[480sx]

Sooo group buy what? We need details guys if its going on.

[gt'd ka]

im really interested in this but i wont have the money probably until around end of october. When u say significant price difference due to it being specialty what kinda jump are we talkin'?

[spooled240]

This crank is for ka's putting down real high hp numbers right? I mean would it really be worth it if you're only planning to put down about 250hp to the wheels?Just out of curiosity, if the srt-4 has a fcw crank, why would redline be at 6000rpm? Turbo maxes out?

[Charlie240sxt]

yea what would a crank like this do for those only shooting for 300-400whp