Mobil 1 not synthetic anymore?

[elwesso]

zerothread?id=241971

This thread came up in the VH forum and I thought id bring it here since many of you dont go there...

The bottom line it looks like M1 went from the group IV base to a group III. Seems like the only synthetics are things like amsoil, redline, and german castrol (if you can even find it)..

[Falkdesigns]

Why Amsoil was First, and STILL the best 100% syn on the market.

I recently met the president of NEO synthetics, and asked him how his product compares with Amsoil, and he said it's basically a very similar product with 100% Group IV polyol-ester base stock.

It's like people buy that advertising bs by Mobil and think "it's cheaper and easier to find" well, you can order Amsoil if you can't find it locally, it's not that much more, and it IS that much better.

[qship96]

It is speculated mobil 1 is now a group 3 oil based on lab testing various grades conducted by a chemist who posted this months ago on bobistheoilguy.com leading to neurosis by the oil junkies who belong to that site{yes,I am one of them} there is thought to still be a few m1 grades that remain a group 4 pao based product,but the damage is done...after mobil sueing other oil companies for claiming their products were group 3 based and not true synthetic and losing in court,mobil turns around and does the same thing-gone down hill ever since merge with exxon-profit over product.Thank god I switched to Redline about 5 years and 90 thousand miles ago-it remains a true,group 5 polyolester based synthetic for about the same price as m1 fake synthetic

[Jesda]

Its a fun topic, but for the VH it doesn't matter a whole lot on the march to 300k as long as OCI is sufficiently frequent for the particular oil.

I make an appointment with dealer every 3.5k or 90 days for my fix of Castrol. They check on things that I wouldn't normally notice myself. Its like going in for a regular dental cleaning -- you might not have gingivitis, but its nice to have a professional tell you if problems are developing before its too late.

I guess this means I'm done with M1. I wonder if GM will be changing the Corvette's requirement from Mobil 1 to something else?

[qship96]

amsoil,while a decent product,makes a wide variety of oils-not all are group4 pao based-and all come with the nitwit "dealers" who operate on a marketing pyramid structure and vary widely on product knowledge.

[Jesda]

amsoil,while a decent product,makes a wide variety of oils-not all are group4 pao based-and all come with the nitwit "dealers" who operate on a marketing pyramid structure and vary widely on product knowledge.

Thats pretty much what keeps me away from it. Its like a weird religious cult. A very peculiar closed society.

If I wanted to join a cult I'd let my aunt convert me into a mormon.

[Falkdesigns]

*yawn. You want a weird religious cult? Look to every church/temple/mosque/whatever and you found it.

They do make a variety of oils, but their 100% syn is still the best out there and it's Group 5, not 4. I don't deal with nitwit "dealers" although I am going to be one of the "nitwits" soon enough. Pricing is set in their catalog, it's not like you pay random pricing, you pay what the suggested retail is. Amsoil is available on the shelf at Super Autobacs locally for me.

Amsoil > Redline (slightly) and Redline > all other synthetic oils.

[burijon]

I found these articles as they relate to synthetic oil definitions. Itwould seem that Exxon Mobil is taking the "If we can't beat them we'lljoin them" approach with regard to Castrol marketing highly refinedpetroleum oils and marketing them as synthetics.

http://www.synthetic-solutions.com/definitions.htm

[Jesda]

*yawn.

I could use some coffee myself.

[qship96]

*yawn. You want a weird religious cult? Look to every church/temple/mosque/whatever and you found it.

They do make a variety of oils, but their 100% syn is still the best out there and it's Group 5, not 4. I don't deal with nitwit "dealers" although I am going to be one of the "nitwits" soon enough. Pricing is set in their catalog, it's not like you pay random pricing, you pay what the suggested retail is. Amsoil is available on the shelf at Super Autobacs locally for me.

Amsoil > Redline (slightly) and Redline > all other synthetic oils.

amsoil makes a true group 5 poe based oil? prove it to me!,and send me some of their vitamins and supplements also{yes they really do push these too} amway,amsoil,mary kay,herbalife,shakley,tupperware,all scummy pyramid cult like marketing}

[Q45tech]

Does it really matter [with i reason] what the average guy uses IF the oil and filter is changed every 90 days / 3,750 miles.

I never understood the concept of long drain intervals as I want to see the belts and other bottom things on a lift at least every 90 days.

The PAO vs mixed PAO + hydogenated vs just hudrogenated debate will go on!

[Q45denver]

Think I'll switch back to Amsoil

New Nanofiber filter Technology :

http://www.enhancedsyntheticoi...ducts.

[silver2k2]

I think its more a point of getting what you pay for I have been using M1 for years I still change at 3k. Many will say, and even prove that its a waste of money.

Still if I pay for fully synthetic thats what I want, looks like I will be moving to Redeline

[Falkdesigns]

I didn't say Amsoil make a group 5, the USE a group 5.

And why is it a problem if they chose to use people to promote and market their product instead of billions in fake advertising???

Amsoil sponsor racers, racers who use their product. I know lots and lots of racers, and pretty much all of them said they like Amsoil products, even if they don't use them.

And I never seen any vitamins or supplements in the Amsoil catalog.

Scummy pyramid marketing, whatever. I know what my experiences tell me. Racing Beat won the 24 hours of Daytona in 1983 & 1984 using it, and back when I had my RX7 they swore by it. Now they push Royal Purple, and I don't know why, but I also don't buy from them as I don't have a Mazda any more. Racers use it, and they believe in it. As I mentioned above, I recently met the president of NEO synthetics and he admitted that Amsoil, his competition, is among the best on the market. You can believe your little pyramid stuff all you want.

[qship96]

Falk,you really are becoming one of those amzoil zealots! you fit in well,good luckk with your thursday nite meetings explaining your "money making opportunities to the unwashed masses"

AND AGAIN... AMSOIL neither manufactures nor USES a true group 5 Poly-Ol- Ester basestock in any of their oils,more bull**** misinformation and lies from the amsoil goons

[qship96]

google amsoil ALTRUM if you also want to peddle their vitamins and supplements and pen15 extenders --me,I want a oil company that makes only one line of passenger car motor oil,the best that they can make,and that is redline- built to be the best,not down to a price point.

[99q45t_vl]

zerothread?id=241971

This thread came up in the VH forum and I thought id bring it here since many of you dont go there...

The bottom line it looks like M1 went from the group IV base to a group III. Seems like the only synthetics are things like amsoil, redline, and german castrol (if you can even find it)..

I stopped using the M1 fairly recently, and thanks to BITOG guys, discovered the German Castrol. I was able to get a good stash of it while it was on sale for $4.49/qt. Too bad it it being discontinued and Autozone is not going to have it on the shelves.

[elwesso]

Falk,you really are becoming one of those amzoil zealots! you fit in well,good luckk with your thursday nite meetings explaining your "money making opportunities to the unwashed masses"

AND AGAIN... AMSOIL neither manufactures nor USES a true group 5 Poly-Ol- Ester basestock in any of their oils,more bull**** misinformation and lies from the amsoil goons

Im trying to find a reasonable substitute for my beloved M1. The last fill I ran mobil clean 7500 5w30 (syn blend, basically like durablend).. Ive had it in for a littel less than 4k miles and it still look great (4 months I think, all highway driving but the car sits for weeks at a time).. I may just stick with the mobil clean 7500, but wondering for the price if anything else out there is better.

I usually run 4 months per oil change mainly because I drive only highway miles but the car sits for long periods of time without being used. I run the car hard. Any suggestions? I am really starting to fall off the synthetic bandwagon for most fluids, especially ones that are changed regularly.. When you replace fluids every year (or every 3-4 months for oil) its hard to justify spending the money when its not really worth it. Ill still run synthetic diff fluid and brake fluid, but everything else I run conventional because even the conventional comes out looking new at reasonable intervals.

The german castrol is choice if you can find it. Autozone's near me dont have it (Look for ACEA-3 or something on the back)...

[qship96]

[QUOTE=Falkdesigns]Why Amsoil was First, and STILL the best 100% syn on the market.

I recently met the president of NEO synthetics, and asked him how his product compares with Amsoil, and he said it's basically a very similar product with 100% Group IV polyol-ester base stock.

Reply: ahhh "100% group iv polyol-ester base stock" no such thing- group iv {4} basestock is PAO {poly-alpha -olifin} ,group V {5} is Polyol-ester basestockMIGHT want to do a little reading and understanding before you become one of those salesmen that give amzoil its bad reputation

[Falkdesigns]

You know what's funny, I typed Group IV, and then went on to say Group 5. My bad on the Roman numerals and all. But I'm pretty sure on the bottles it says Group 5, I may be wrong, I'm going off memory, and I don't have a bottle in my trunk to go reference. And I'm not going to try and sell it, I only want to be a dealer so I can get it cheaper for myself.

I've had free Redline (ask Wes, I sent him half a case), and still have Redline in my transmission, but for my money, I prefer Amsoil.

BTW, I don't see why it matters if one company owns another company that makes vitamins. I believe that's called a "diversified portfolio". Lot's of companies own other companies.

[99q45t_vl]

The german castrol is choice if you can find it. Autozone's near me dont have it (Look for ACEA-3 or something on the back)...

You can still find it at your local Audi or BMW dealer, but it will be expensive.

[Falkdesigns]

I think that for the most part, any of the pure, genuine synthetics are pretty good, but it's like the NEO president told me, "the differences are mainly in the additive packages they use".

[DrewQ45]

Last oil change I used Supertech- Walmart brand. The car still runs...LOL I wanna give up the $13 K&N oil filter too, but that nut on the end has me hooked.

[hannibal]

I learned from Fred (the OG Q guru) that SuperTech is a great oil. I used it religiously on my 240...

[ScottJackson]

I'll just stick to my Wix filters and either Wal Mart brand or O'reilly's brand oil (diesel spec for flat tappet cam engines as it still has zinc).

[DrewQ45]

I learned from Fred (the OG Q guru) that SuperTech is a great oil. I used it religiously on my 240...

That's where I learned about it too. I've noticed that it stays cleaner a lot longer than M1 which would have been dark brown on my dipstick by now.

The oil business is a scam and the ridiculous price increases are directly proportional to the gasoline price gouging we now live with. All of a sudden, refinining has become more difficult???

Yeah, I know ethanol will be bad for our injectors but I champion anything that will reduce demand. Can't wait for the day when viable alternatives are abound and gas companies are begging us to buy their products.

[texasoil]

TexasOil was 'one of the guru's' a few years back . I headed up the process design of the largest and most complex severe hydrocracking refinery to make what is now called 'synthetic' petroleum based lube base oil. I DO know the subject thoroughly. The actual molecules used in lube oils, whether from 'true synthetic PAO's ', or Group III petroleum based, are essentially IDENTICAL-in physical and chemical properties so far as performance in the engine is concerned. Either perform well WITH the proper additive formulation. Neither will perform adequately without the proper additive formulation. If the identical additive formulation is used, the results in the engine will be so close as to be very,very very hard to differentiate between them.

However, if one does not intend to drive the insane amounts of mileage between changes that auto manufactures are pushing, then are the 'premium synthetics like Mobil1 , Castrol fully synthetic,etc' worth the extra cost? In my opinion, NO.

I currently use Chevron Delo 15w40 in all my cars because it has much higher zinc anti-wear and much much higher detergency and dispersant capability than other oils available at SAMS. I change the oil and filter every 3-4K miles, depending on service of that particular change interval--lots of long trips = longer interval. Only short town driving may get 2000 mile (or less) change. Oil is CHEAP compared to all other costs. Buy good oil, good gasoline, good filters (the heavily advertised filters are not as good look at the filter efficiency ratings for some shocking data) including air filters. Ring belt deposits are becoming engine life limiting with ethanol in gas--the main reason I went to DELO--gonna keep mine clean if I can.

[Unnatural1]

That's where I learned about it too. I've noticed that it stays cleaner a lot longer than M1 which would have been dark brown on my dipstick by now.

Just because oil stays cleaner looking longer doesn't mean it's better oil. A good oil will suspend contaminates in the oil, such as metal particles, etc.... This is a big reason why oil changes color as you put miles on it...it's supposed to.

[Jesda]

The darkening also suggests oxidation.

Things that make you go hmmm.

[DrewQ45]

The darkening also suggests oxidation.

Things that make you go hmmm.

At 211K, I more think it's blow by. I mixed bottles of 10W30 with a single bottle of 10W40 since the weather was warming. The thicker oil provides a better seal around the rings. The "dark brown" that I described is more like black... like soot in the oil. Maybe I should have it analyzed, but at this mileage, what the heck.

What do you guys think of Havoline full synthetic? Picked up a few bottles of 10-40 for $3.99 at Big Lots.