Where can I find R12?

[inshje01]

Okay, the AC in my '89 240 fastback went out about two months ago. My dad has a hose for refilling the freeon tanks. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the '89 model takes R12 and NOT R1394a.

So my question is this, is there a chain or other type of store where I can find R12, or do I have to go to a mechanic or other resource and find it that way?
Modified by inshje01 at 10:31 PM 8/1/2006

[SeVa-S13]

There's occasionally some for sale on craigslist and other local-type classifieds, but always very expensive.Just buy one of those conversion kits at your local parts store for the $39.99 or whatever.

Edit: As a disclaimer, I never run AC in my 240's so I don't know the long term effects, but I've successfully used the kits a couple times. =\

[OriginalWheelman]

Back about 8 years ago (somewhere around there), the feds made it illegal for anyone but a licenced tech to buy R12. As of a few years ago, NO ONE can legally buy it. Its surprising that you say to see it for sale. In otherwords R134 retrofit or sweat!

[jr_ss]

Don't buy that gay *** retro at the local parts store. It's alot more involved then that. You have to change out all the o-rings in the a/c system, a new reciever/dry, and condenser...

[inshje01]

so...how much work we talking here, because if it's too much work and/or too expensive, I can sweat it out for another summer and a half until I can afford something new...

[xckid]

If you live near the mexico you can buy it there for like 10 bucks no licenese

[inshje01]

If you live near the mexico you can buy it there for like 10 bucks no licenese

yeah, there's plenty of tienda's over here where I live. I was wondering if I could go in there and just ask them to import it for me

[safxtacy]

my bro in law works for all the kfcs taco bells and a couple of pizza uts here fixing there coolers acs all kinds of stuff and we have around 10 big *** tanks in our garage all together worth about 2gs if u wanna swing by here i can hook u up i just got a box of free air filters for the ac which run for about 500 for the box best thing is he buys the stuff under the company card so great

[benemorius]

There's a good bit of misinformation in this thread, so let me clear it up.

R-12 production ceased in the US back in the '90s, but there is still much to be sold/reused. Sale of the small cans of it has been restricted to section 609 epa certified technicians. It's not a terribly difficult certification to get, or you could also probably find someone with the certification to purchase it for you. You can find it for sale on ebay.

As for retrofitting to r-134a - it varies from car to car. On a 240 it happens to be quite easy, requiring replacement of only the drier. I would recommend a full flush of the entire system to get the old oil out, as well as a new expansion valve. But like I said, replacing the drier is the only truly necessary retrofitting step.

[inshje01]

I wish I could just stop by, that would be sweet. But, it's a 6000 mile round trip to do that....not really cost effective...

As for retrofitting to r-134a - it varies from car to car. On a 240 it happens to be quite easy, requiring replacement of only the drier. I would recommend a full flush of the entire system to get the old oil out, as well as a new expansion valve. But like I said, replacing the drier is the only truly necessary retrofitting step.

so how would I go about flushing it all in "EPA recommended safe" manner? Or should I just not worry about it?

PS: where would I get the drier for my replacement?

[benemorius]

You might prefer not to worry about it because it's a lot to undertake if you decide you want to.

Disconnect all fittings on all lines and remove all components. Flush everything but the compressor and drier with a commercial flush or suitable replacement. Replace the expansion valve since you already have the evaporator out. Drain as much oil as possible out of the compressor. Replace all the o-rings with new ones when you put it all back together. Be sure you have it evacuated and filled by someone qualified or all your work will have gone to waste.

I recommend getting the drier from a parts store as you can usually find it much cheaper there than at the dealership. This is one of the few parts I recommend going anywhere but the dealership for. Be sure you don't install it yourself. It needs to be unsealed and installed just before evacuating and charging ths system, so just take it with you when you go to have that done and let them do it.

EDIT: The question we all failed to ask is why the a/c went out in the first place. Do you know?

[inshje01]

the only answer/theory I can give as to why the AC died is that the car is 17 years old and it was it's time. Up until about two weeks ago I was getting cold air (as cold as the AC used to put out) when I would turn the control to defrost.

It should also be worth mentioning that my vents are stuck on top. The blower wont blow through any other vents (floor or defrost). I'm thinking this is a mechanical issue and a gear or something broke and left them where they were.

[benemorius]

Well unless I missed something, it sounds like you need to be worrying about fixing it rather than flushing and recharging it. There are dozens of reasons for lack of cold air aside from low refrigerant. Since your mix door motor isn't doing anything, I'd start with fuses.

[mmm240]

i was reading the stickers on the bottom side of my hood today and one of them states that it is R12, so if you are unsure, check the stickers. i have a 93 so it may be different from yours

[inshje01]

Well unless I missed something, it sounds like you need to be worrying about fixing it rather than flushing and recharging it. There are dozens of reasons for lack of cold air aside from low refrigerant. Since your mix door motor isn't doing anything, I'd start with fuses.

I just went and checked all the fuses that are AC related under the hood. The only one that was missing is the one labeled "FR FOG." Since I didn't have a replacement ready, I moved both the "P&N" and "EGI SWITCH" relays over there and got no results (I didn't try to start the engine, just put the key at accessory).

So, I moved into the cabin and started checking the fuses inside. The blower motor fuses and the AC fuses both passed a visual inspection. And removing them caused the system to stop working altogether. So, I assume from that that means they are all fine.

Suggestions from here?

[benemorius]

I'll have to check the wiring diagram to confirm which fuse is for the mix door motor. In the mean time, check whether the green a/c light comes on when you push the button and whether the vent selection buttons light up when you push them. Also remove one of the caps on the a/c lines near the compressor and depress the valve to see whether anything comes out. It will be just like a tire valve.

[inshje01]

AC light doesn't come on, I'm getting a new relay in on Tuesday, don't have a spare or multimeter to test it out before I bought the replacement. All the other lights do come on though. I did hear today, for the first time, what sounded like a motor trying to move the vents when I switched the vents from top/bottom to defrost or from defrost to top/bottom.

My dad and I just had a pressure gauge hooked up to valve nearest the compressor and it read ~40 on the gauge, so I am thinking there is still plenty of coolant left in the system. I'm really just gonna hold off anything else until Tuesday, and hope the new relay is good. If that's the case I am returning my conversion kit and saving $20.

[benemorius]

Return the conversion kit right now as it's useless anyway.

The relay won't fix anything if your a/c light isn't coming on. Locate the receiver/drier next to the battery and disconnect the connector for the dual pressure switch which which is mounted on top of it. Use something metal to short the two pins in the harness together and see if the a/c light will come on then. You should do this when the key turned on, but with the engine not running.

EDIT: and I forgot to mention: the a/c light will not come on if the blower motor isn't running so set the fan to 1 or 2 while testing
Modified by benemorius at 2:55 PM 7/30/2006

[inshje01]

I just had a very n00btastic moment trying to get the dual pressure connector off. I couldn't get the wire harness to budge not matter what I tried. Is there a trick to that, or do I just need to go ahead and keep working it till it pops out?

[Kenrik]

You can buy cans on ebay about $20-$30 each..

Three cans run about $45-50 on ebay...

[benemorius]

There is no special trick - just the usual tricks which apply to a 16 year old car.

[inshje01]

While I'm still 100% sure of the conducive power of my two paper clips that I used, I did try shorting those wires on both ends of the wire harness. I tried shorting both sets of connects, independently and together. None of the attempts brought the AC light on in my dash.

We did, however, notice when we were screwing around just now that with the engine running, the clutch on the compressor did not turn on at all.

[Kenrik]

While I'm still 100% sure of the conducive power of my two paper clips that I used, I did try shorting those wires on both ends of the wire harness. I tried shorting both sets of connects, independently and together. None of the attempts brought the AC light on in my dash.

We did, however, notice when we were screwing around just now that with the engine running, the clutch on the compressor did not turn on at all.

You can not turn on the AC system unless the pressure switch is active.. the only way to have a active pressure switch is to have enough coolant in the system..



Don't hotwire **** or you will bust something.

[benemorius]

You can not turn on the AC system unless the pressure switch is active.. the only way to have a active pressure switch is to have enough coolant in the system..



Don't hotwire **** or you will bust something.

Pressure switches can malfunction, which is why I told him to "hotwire" it. Nothing bad can come of this if the compressor doesn't turn, which is why I told him to do it without the engine running.

At this point it sounds like you have a wiring issue somewhere. Fuses and that dual pressure switch are the only "normal" problems which can keep that a/c light from coming on. You might try slowly moving the fan speed switch back and forth while watching the a/c light. I have seen a case where the contacts were dirty and didn't always make good enough contact for the a/c even though the fan worked normally.

Again, I will have to reference the wiring diagram to give you any more specific information on what exactly to check.

[inshje01]

You might try slowly moving the fan speed switch back and forth while watching the a/c light. I have seen a case where the contacts were dirty and didn't always make good enough contact for the a/c even though the fan worked normally.

I've already been doing this as I've been checking everything out. The AC light did nothing the whole time. I'm really flabergasted on what to do now. I think I'm just gonna wait until Tuesday and try the new relay out.

Where in the FSM, or online, can I find the wiring diagram to look at myself? I do have some experience working with circuitry and wiring, so I might be able to figure that much out.

Thanks

[benemorius]

You can find a link to download the fsm by searching nico. There is a section devoted to wiring diagrams. If you can't figure anything out I will look when I get home sometime tonight or tomorrow.

[inshje01]

So I stared and stared at the wiring diagrams and didn't really see anything new. I also went out and traced some wires under the hood and didn't get any new knowledge. I did, however, replace the relay and found out that my original was not bad (which means I get my $20 back). I'm also running the conversion kit back to the store and getting $40 more back. Neither one was at issue.

I did, however, just finish up doing more research and found these:zerothread/172743http://forums.nicoclub ... ead/179236

I am starting to think that I need to replace my compressor. As per the above threads:

The Green light is not coming on.The Compressor does not turn, period, ever.The Aux Fan also never turns.The idle speed is normal (750 +/- 50).The weather was between 85-95 depending on time. Also humidity was 80%+ since this is the NC summer.Car was still the whole time I was checking, but the compressor never turned on during driving.

Unlike nissanconvert, I believe that I have pressure in my lines. Just to double check, which line is the blue cap, high or low? Because I might be confusing the two. I am willing to continue on without AC, but if this is a simple wiring fix, I am all for it.

[ricebike]

the compressor pulley should be always turning via the belt/ you didn't hear the clutch click on when button is pushed?

then you have a wiring/ bad sensor problem if you're sure you have AC pressure in the system

[Dammitboy]

There's a couple of things to check here. I'm currently battling over a wiring issue myself, only my a/c is inconsistent, runs awhile then cuts off.

Get a copy of the FSM, a multimeter. This info is being quoted from my memory from my FSM.

Check your dual pressure switch for continuity. If none, REPLACE.

Looking at your main ECU harness that plugs into the ECU, Check for 12 volts between pin out 43 (G/Y) wire AND the LG/B wire on the thermo control amp harness.

Also check for continuity between thermo control amp (same wire- LG/B) AND chassis ground. If continuity exist, REPLACE thermo control amp.

2 possible reasons for dead green light.

good luck,

Kevin

[penpen-commander]

r12 is expensive now.i remember when it used to be like $1 a can.now it's like $20-$40 or more for that ****.just change it to r134a.that's what i did with mines.you just need the adapter and that's it.