No start, ignition relay?? help

[tiger]

OK... the last time I did something I didn't get any help so hopefully I can this time. My Car will not start... my starter is getting power and my starter is good...so is the battery. When I turn the key, I hear a little click coming from one of the big blue relays behind the fuse panel.. I can touch it and feel it click but I can't identify it.. my best guess is that it's the ignition relay.

I put in another wiring harness that wasn't cut up so much.(the entire harness). the only place It is cut is the plug that goes to the key cylinder. THe wires don't exactly match up.. the colors... (scroll down for pic) I dont know if this really matters ... coud this be what is causing it not to start? Sorry the pic is blurry but you can tell that the wires aren't the same colors.

I'm so close to stripping it and junking the body... I only paid 1,800 for it so not a huge loss. Please help me!

[ddgsxr504]

Wow how ironic that I am having the same problem as well. I was on my way to work and since we are having a big inspection next week we have to work today (Saturday). I stopped by the gorcery store to grab my guys some breakfast (military) and when I came out to the car it won't start.

At first I thought it might be a fuse so I checked and one of them was blown, it is marked in red in my uber tyte paintshop diagram. Low and behold the car still won't start. So I though it might be the clutch interlock so I bypassed the clutch interlock switch and it still won't start. I removed the kick panel completely and now all that happens when you turn the key is one of the fuse relays click (brown one). All my $hit is good, alternator/optima red top batt/ starter cuz it started fine like 10min prior at my house. I am at work and don't have my FSM or Haynes with me but hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction so when I get back to my car (albertson's parking lot) I will have a good idea where to start. I am bringing a multimeter with me to check a few things. Sorry Tiger not trying to knock you off your soapbox or anything but hopefully this will help us both.

[vancouverbc]

what year of car are we talking about? on my 1991 240sx, the blue is accessory relay and the brown is ignition relay. rear window defogger is brown.if you dont have power windows the ignition relay is blue. the ignition relay is double throw relay if it has power windows. ie two bridges.Single throw if you dont have power windows.
Modified by vancouverbc at 9:20 PM 7/15/2006

[vancouverbc]

1991-1994 KA24DE

The colours of the harness are not always the same as the colours at the unit.

There are 5 wires that go to ignition switch:

1.This will be white or white with some other colour. This comes from green fuse link under hood in relay box. It supplies continuous 12volts.

2. Should be blue. Goes to accessory relay #2. The relay is blue and single pole. This relay is by the fuse box by driver kick panel. This sends 12v positive to accessory relay when key is in accessory postion. It also send 12vPostive to accesory relay #2 and to one of the fuses in the fuse box.

3. not sure about colours. but harness colour on my diagram is black/red.This goes to 10A fuse in relay box.(under hood) It also goes to ignition relay. It also goes to a fuse in fuse box. This circuit gets power when ignition is in the "on" postition. This also send 12v positive to ignition coil.

4.harness colour is black/white in my diagram. it goes to interlock relay. Your starter starts so you know this one is right. 12v postive is sent when key is in "start" position.

5. harness colour is black/yellow. Goes to st. signal fuse in fuse box. 12v postive goes to this fuse when key is turned to "start' position.

[vancouverbc]

ddgsxr504, your starter is not making any noise? I'd unplug the harness at the starter and see if you are getting 12v positive at the starter. SOmething had to have blown that fuse. I'd start a new thread saying your starter/ignition fuse blew 1995 240sx.

[tiger]

thank u for all the info! THe day is about over here and i'll have to jump down under there on my next day off and check this out. So there is a 10A fuse in the fuse panel (in the engine bay) that also is in the ignition circutry? update : I went outside to look at my wiring... behind the fuse panel i have 4 relays... a brown, two black and a blue... I am sure the blue is my ign relay because I have the thick white wire coming from it. I checked underneath my fuse box and I see the white wire going underneath to one of the small fuses, on the other side of the wire is a thin green one.. it says it should be the horn it's on the far right side of the fuse box.... but underneath the "Eng Cont" 10A fuse is just a thin brown wire... I just stuck 10 a fuses in the three slots on the far right hand side. I dont have a battery right now so i'll just have to test it out later. My relay is clicking when i try to start it because the circut cant be completed, right?
Modified by tiger at 6:55 PM 7/16/2006

[vancouverbc]

when the key is in that position , you are sending 12 v positive to two 10amp fuses in relay box. 1. fuel pump relay 2.air injection valve solenoid/bulb check relay

[vancouverbc]

Relays always click. It just means they are working.ie getting power. If you have power windows, your relay will be brown. If you look at the diagram on relay it will have two bridges. If you dont have power windows, the ignition relay will be blue and one bridge.

[tiger]

Ok, this wiring harness came from a 93 with manual windows. All of my accessories work, fuel pump, air, brake lights head lights gauge cluster... when i turn the key all the way forward to start it, there is nothing but a quiet click coming from this big blue relay behind the fuse panel. I just have a brown... two black cylinder shaped ones and then the big blue.

[skydragoness]

Never had this happen to me, but I'll just throw the possibility out there:

What about the relay/switch behind the clutch pedal? I have heard of those going bad and keeping the car from starting despite new battery/new starter. Its cheap from Nissan (i bought one just in case after I replaced my starter).

[tiger]

Hey sky, I was going to ask about that also.... I know that you have to depress the clutch pedal in order for it to start... well.. on this Automatic 240 wiring harness, it didn't come with a plug to put in that one right on the clutch pedal... I just thought it was for the ASCD. Do I need that??

[DriftFactory]

Actually the culprit is probably a relay, but I wouldn't think it's that one. There is a relay on the passanger side next to the battery, it's blue and it's mounted to the side up under the frame. They are notorious for going bad, I've replaced mine twice.

[tiger]

I think that one you're talking about is the clutch interlock relay... there are 2 plugs that go into it, right? Yeah, I have that one on there.. I guess it's working.. I just took it off of some other car. I hope it's working... :- / I need to go find my multimeter.

[vancouverbc]

"My Car will not start... my starter is getting power and my starter is good"

This is what you said in first post. I assumed your starter was making noise. If your starter is getting power, and the starter makes no noise , the problem is a bad starter. Did you disconnect the harness at the starter and check for 12v+ when key in start position? if your starter has power, your interlock relay is working.

[DriftFactory]

No, it is near those though, you are looking for the single blue one.

[tiger]

Hey, I know the starter is good because the car started before I replaced the wiring harness. To check if the starter had power I just touched the terminals together and there was a spark. The problem isssss.... that when I turn the key, it's not sending an ignition signal. I think it might have something to do with the clutch telling the ecu or whatever it tells .. that its depressed.. u know what i mean>?

[tiger]

No, it is near those though, you are looking for the single blue one.

HMM... I don't have this one... can I just get an extra relay and plug it in? I have the double relay one on there.. but maybe I forgot to grab it from the car in the junkyard. I will have to go check!

[vancouverbc]

clutch interlock switch is only a switch. it doesnt send any message anywhere. if your starter has power , the switch is closed and working.

[tiger]

did you see the part where I was saying I dont think my ignition signal is getting through..? Ok, the clutch interlock switch works, at least I know I can eliminate that. Check this thread and if you can, tell me why he jumped these two wires together when he did a 5sp swap... you'll have to scroll down to his pics.. look at the wiring parts. The harness I have came from a car with an automatic transmission.. I have a feeling that I am missing something that tells my ignition signal that the clutch is depressed.

[tiger]

[QUOTE=tiger]did you see the part where I was saying I dont think my ignition signal is getting through..? Ok, the clutch interlock switch works, at least I know I can eliminate that. Check this thread and if you can, tell me why he jumped these two wires together when he did a 5sp swap... you'll have to scroll down to his pics.. look at the wiring parts. The harness I have came from a car with an automatic transmission.. I have a feeling that I am missing something that tells my ignition signal that the clutch is depressed.

Go to here ~~~> http://www.ka24development.com....html

see how he has jumpered that connection together.. I think that could be the prob!! B ut I dont know which one do to it on an S13.

[vancouverbc]

ignition doesnt care if clutch is depressed.

[vancouverbc]

zerothread?id=140879

this thread has pics of my two relay boxes in engine bay

The attached pic shows the relays you have next to fuse block inside car.Look at the colours of the wiring to determine which is which. accessory relay 2 is in engine bay.

[vancouverbc]

He is just bypassing the clutch interlock switch. This has nothing to do with the ignition. THis has to do with the starter motor. THe interlock switch is just a safety measure to prevent starting when you are in gear. I would take a multimeter and make sure you have power at the starter.

[vancouverbc]

I'm confused about what you are doing. You have a battery and your starter is not making a noise? The starter is independent of the ignition.Did you ruin your starter when you touched the terminals together? An ignition relay clicking means the relay is working. Is your starter grounded properly?

[tiger]

Hey, I was just told that if you touch the terminals together briefly and you get a spark, the starter is getting power. When I turn my key to accessory, I get all those, but when I turn it over and try to start it there is just that click from the relay. My starter is grounded also. I switched my harness from a M/T harness to an A/T harness and plugged everything back up the way it was.. I have some plugs that are missing their mate, I just dont know where they go and if they are important. The person before me did some wierd nasty wiring near the fuse box, they spliced together some of the thick white wires into the power wire.. I dont know what the heck they were doing so that's why I wanted to get rid of that chopped up harness. Now, my clutch pedal... I couldn't find that plug in the harness that plugs into that part above it... could that be a problem? I'll post a pic too...

[tiger]

And here's a picture of my interlock relay... my starter is grounded on the side of the strut tower, where it's supposed to be. so, my interlock relay is working if the starter has power? That means that it has nothing to do with me pushing the clutch in or not, right... cause the sensor is in the transmission and not on the clutch pedal itself? I am just so stumped.

[tiger]

i'm talking about when you have to have your clutch pedal down to start the car.. I dont think that is part of the clutch interlock relay that the guy is buypassing... I dont see a relay there...

" * The Top Connector Of The Group Of Wiring Harnesses From The Automatic Transmission Must Be Jumpered Together In Order For The Car To Start * Located Behind The Fuse Box In The Engine Compartment"

" * Use A 12 Gauge Butt Connector To Connect The Harness Wire Together * Plug The Connector Into The Socket * The Car Will Now Start * WARNING: NOW THE CLUTCH DOES NOT HAVE TO BE DEPRESSED IN ORDER TO START THE CAR => THE CAR CAN BE STARTED IN GEAR AND WILL LURCH"

[vancouverbc]

The sensor on the transmission has nothing to do with this. The clutch interlock switch is just a switch. WHen you depress clutch the switch closes ie the wire is connected(continuous). Either your starter is fried or it is not getting power or starter ground is not right. It doesnt appear that the clutch interlock switch is wired. If you want to bypass the clutch interlock switch, you can take the brown -white wire from interlock relay and connect it to ground. If you want to wire in the interlock switch, take the brown-white wire from the interlock relay and connect to one side of clutch interlock switch. Take another wire from the other side of clutch interlock switch and send it to ground. The clutch interlock switch is just interrupting ground source for interlock relay.

The automatic tran harness has an inhibtor switch(black-white wire). This is not connected to anything because you are manual.

The starter circuit is very simple ;starter only needs ground and 12v + source. the interlock relay and clutch switch need to be closed for starter to get 12v+ if they are in the circuit.

Anyway, your issue right now is the starter and this is very simple issue.I dont know what the butt connector is about but he is bypassing the clutch interlock switch. I assume the interlock relay and clutch switch are not wired into the circuit. I dont understand the auto tran. harness so my answer is not complete. Anyway, double-check with multimeter that you have 12volts positive at starter.
Modified by vancouverbc at 9:20 PM 7/18/2006

[vancouverbc]

I circled the start circuit in yellow. When you turn key to start , 12V+ goes through interlock relay to starter. continuous red denotes 12V+. continuous blue is ground. the ground is only to operate the interlock relay.

A/T equals automatic tran

M/T equal manual tran

Relays are a little tricky to understand at first but this is a very simple circuit. We are just sending 12v positive to starter while key is in start position.

[tiger]

ok, what you are telling me sounds like it is what I need to do... I guess I should just bypass that switch. I'm probably going to post up a few more pics tomorrow and ask you if I have the right plugs, I dont want to cut the wrong thing & dig myself any deeper .. wiring sucks.. thank you for all of your help so far, i'll post some pics tomorrow afternoon.