A median between police and enthusiasts - WHAT CAN NICO MEMBERS DO? PLEASE READ!

[jdm_master_X]

BLAME LAW ENFORCEMENT AND LOCAL OFFICIALS FOR THIS:

yeah i find it really foolish for a lot of states with California Emission Laws (especially here) will let you state ref a CRX with a USDM B16 for smog, and then turn around and slap on a VTEC head as if nothing has changed. Or those lucky people who have pre-75 vehicles. You could run your car on nuclear energy and nobody could give a rats *** (well thats just an exhaggeration).

A lot of law makers argue that other countries cannot comply with the emission standards here in the United States. WHAT EMISSION STANDARD? only so many states out of 50 have adopted or are in the process of adopting California Emission Law. Even a few countries such as Mexico and China want to adopt a emission program.

how can California complain of these simple 4 cylinder motors from Japan (or even Europe, etc.) when those countries have emission standards that are up to par or (in Japan's case) 10x more strict. why do you think that motors are replaced every 30K there? safety and economy is the focus of any automobile in any country. it doesnt matter, a car is a car, and it displaces dirty emission when you put the pedal to the metal. sure some of these cars come with the...oh dare i say it....TURBO. but still, ive seen so many front clips and ive seen the same emission devices in SRs as there are on KAs.

another arguement to this is "well there arent so many pre-75 cars around any more, so let them go without smog. there are so many more of these 'rice rockets' running around, therefore we must put a stop to this."

well there arent too many "souped up rice rockets" out there. it costs a lot to build and maintain any hobby car. versus the same cars that share the roads with us, like the 1969 Chevrolet Camaro with a 4-Barrel Carb, the 2001 Cadillac Escalade with 24" rims (which remarkbly, affects emissions), and even the 2005 Ferrari Enzo. why not target those cars? well ONE IS SMOG EXEMPT, the OTHER ISN'T INTENT FOR SPEED/RACING, the LAST ONE can afford to PAY GAS GUZZLER TAX AND MAYBE a LITTLE EXTRA FOR SMOG.

I can give a rat's a** about what car anybody drives. As a technician, I know it displaces its a fair amount of raw unburned fuel and I have to stick a sniffer in the exhaust for smog. the bigger the motor, the type of aspiration (Turbo or Supercharger), the fuel it burns, EVERYTHING BUT THE NON-POWER REAR VIEW MIRROR, has something to do with your emissions. the only things that control this are emission devices like exhaust gas recirculators, positive crankcase ventilation valves, catalytic converters, etc.

BLAME STREET RACING AND SOME OF OUR IGNORANCE FOR:

running aftermarket parts that are intended for off-road use, as well as our wreckless driving. i am guilty of this , but ive learned the hard way and want to change things for enthusiasts in the same situation.

when we pollute the air, its like a big slap in the face to the next generation of enthusiasts (more than likely, your children, etc.). however, we already should know we arent the leading cause of the smog epidemic. we can promote CARB LEGAL ONLY parts on our cars. some of us will say "well those parts are ***** compared to real off road parts. i want as much power out of my car, without any compromise. besides, my (insert JDM motor name here) will never pass smog, so im going to go ALL OUT." of course we'll never get to drive DOT LEGALIZED FTOs, GTI-R Pulsars, and Tommykaira ZZIIs here in the states, but motors from overseas is the closest we can get to the same performance we could only dream of.we can attempt to make the government hear our voice on at least allowing the smog of motors from overseas, as long as they come with OEM emission devices or equivalent counterparts. if one man with a lot of money can legalize the Nissan Skyline (which isnt legal anymore...sadly), im sure thousands of us with simple requests and non-violent solutions could find a median between police and enthusiasts.

If only we can raise awareness about:

-BIAS-POSSIBLE JDM MOTORS FOR SMOG-DEMAND FOR MORE AFTERMARKET COMPANIES TO CARB LEGALIZE THEIR PARTS/ DEVELOPMENT OF AFTERMARKET EMISSIONS DEVICES-ENCOURAGING YOUNG DRIVERS TO RACE ON THE TRACK ONLY-MORE GOV'T CONTROL OVER WHAT PARTS CAN BE SOLD OVER THE COUNTER-PUBLIC AWARENESS

im just throwing wild ideas onto the table, but i need all of you to help me organize my thoughts and get this plan rolling. i dont want to go on strike or anything hardcore (well...not yet anyway), but i think its about time we stop getting harassed by law enforcement, and at the same time, help out the community, promote newer ideas to CARB, DOT, EPA, and aftermarket companies to push for a solution with us. we are a core group, and as NICO members, i think we should be the role models and start the push towards a solution for everyone.

[nsrZ32]

Emissions checks suck. I'm with you 100% on that. Thank God for collectors plates in Ohio and for Historical plates for anything 25 years old or older.

[jamied311]

If only we can raise awareness about:

-BIAS-POSSIBLE JDM MOTORS FOR SMOG-DEMAND FOR MORE AFTERMARKET COMPANIES TO CARB LEGALIZE THEIR PARTS/ DEVELOPMENT OF AFTERMARKET EMISSIONS DEVICES-ENCOURAGING YOUNG DRIVERS TO RACE ON THE TRACK ONLY-MORE GOV'T CONTROL OVER WHAT PARTS CAN BE SOLD OVER THE COUNTER-PUBLIC AWARENESS

You made some really nice points... IMO it will never work! There will always be ricers to ruin it for all of the enthusiasts. They are the ones who are street racing, driving like idiots, and welding fart cans to their exhaust pipes! Its just too late to help!

[Jesda]

I read that twice and I still dont get it. Summary?

[jamied311]

I read that twice and I still dont get it. Summary?

Cali emissions rant.

[ILikeMy240sx]

No emission in MI....

Whatever burns in my engine comes straight out.....

Actually my car is registered in NY so I still have NY registration but emission sticker expired.... who knows when haha.

I wonder what the results would be if I bring my car to a smog station and put it under the sniffer.... Thatd be quite interesting.

[jdm_master_X]

It started out with a news report here in the Bay about busting kids here for modified vehicles, following the "movie". zerothread?id=181027

I read that twice and I still dont get it. Summary?

pretty much i want to find a way for enthusiasts in California (as well as other Cali-emission states) to tune their vehicles without having police to harass and profile us. i proposed some points at the bottom of my rant to raise awareness to limit (not to completely stop) tuning and government regulation in other ways. things like emission testing for foreign motors and supressing street racing without targeting those of us who drive cars that fit the "profile".

You made some really nice points... IMO it will never work! There will always be ricers to ruin it for all of the enthusiasts. They are the ones who are street racing, driving like idiots, and welding fart cans to their exhaust pipes! Its just too late to help!

of course there will be ricers out there f**king it all up for us, but have you noticed its starting to die down gradually? why? law enforcement is cracking down of course. but how tactful are these campaigns? they are too brash and target those of us who are following the law (give or take modifications and motor swaps). i say let police continue to supress it, but without the bias. and push federal emission standards on foreign motors, instead of banning them all together. dont you think a car is a car, no matter where its from? so if thats the case, whatever comes out of the car to your left or right is the same for your car. an engine is an engine, and emission is everywhere, but we can find ways to suppress that too.


Modified by jdm_master_X at 10:24 AM 6/21/2006

[Black on Gold]

No emission in MI....

Go South Carolina

[jdm_master_X]

what pros and cons are there to protest this?

[nismofly]

15 years and older are exempt in NY, so i dont need to worry

[AZhitman]

This is a good reason NICO is joining SEMA - We will have our voice heard.

I'll keep you guys updated, we should have our SEMA membership approved in the next few days.

[nchopp]

It's not between Police and Enthusiasts. Police don't make the laws, they enforce them. It's between your elected Legislators and the Enthusiasists.

[AZhitman]

^ Amen.

[jdm_master_X]

in terms of laws, of course its legislation. i wanted to make it known to legislation and police.

should legislation come first if there were some sort of mediation? that way, police bias would "stop"?

or do we start with local law enforcement and work our way up?

[jdm_master_X]

SEMA is the same organization that created RASR, right?

so exactly what would it mean if NICO

This is a good reason NICO is joining SEMA - We will have our voice heard.

I'll keep you guys updated, we should have our SEMA membership approved in the next few days.

what would SEMA do for the enthusiast? is there anyway we can really campaign this to a more mainstream audience? It doesnt seem like this is being pushed hard enough.

[HashiriyaS14]

Honestly it really doesn't matter.

The enthusiast community, all of them, always gets the short end of the stick with any sort of motor vehicle laws, emissions or otherwise. We're just not a priority of the lawmakers.

I do think that having NICO as a voice at SEMA couldn't hurt though.

[AZhitman]

SEMA is the same organization that created RASR, right?

what would SEMA do for the enthusiast? is there anyway we can really campaign this to a more mainstream audience? It doesnt seem like this is being pushed hard enough.

You have some reading to do, my friend.

http://www.sema.org

[jdm_master_X]

Honestly it really doesn't matter.

The enthusiast community, all of them, always gets the short end of the stick with any sort of motor vehicle laws, emissions or otherwise. We're just not a priority of the lawmakers.

I do think that having NICO as a voice at SEMA couldn't hurt though.

well i just feel cheated at that end. because of course, you have your old school enthusiast, your rich enthusiast, the collector, the driver, etc. what ive noticed (especially at the sniffer checkpoints here in CA) is that only "cars with vinyl decals and flashy paint" normally have a tie in with "illegal modifications." again, the same flashy domestic can have illegal mods, but its smog exempt with its carburated V8. im not biasing muscle cars, but im saying that you only see foreign vehicles stopped for crap like that. despite the fact these cars will burn cleaner than older cars, we still get the state ref. i wonder how often these regulations are updated. and who comes up with these stupid, contradicting laws in california? i just dont get it...

zerothread?id=181027read that post. u will understand what im saying.

[nchopp]

in terms of laws, of course its legislation. i wanted to make it known to legislation and police.

should legislation come first if there were some sort of mediation? that way, police bias would "stop"?

or do we start with local law enforcement and work our way up?

I love "hate the cops" syndrome. Why do you think LEOs pull over cars that are modified? Because by and large, when they pull them over, the kids end up smarting off and being absolute d!ck. That's gonna keep encouraging them. There are laws being violated, and they're going to enforce those laws. If the people they're stopping are giving them even more reason to, well... <shrug>

[dickie]

omfg just get a second car.

[jdm_master_X]

well isnt being a smart a** an entirely different violation? i still dont think that makes room to enforce laws if someones attitude can create a bias for everybody else who fits the profile.

its just like racial stereotyping/profiling. you can know and believe whatever you want about someones ethnic background, but it shouldnt tie in with how you treat them. its like saying "okay filipino people like to eat dog, so im going to treat the rest of them like they love it." its a ignorant assumption and does not constitute unfair treatment to someone else who happens to drive a car thats 96% identical to the last car this law enforcement official pulled over.

dont get me wrong, of course its law enforcements job to ENFORCE these rules. i just believe that it should be done more tactfully.

[jdm_master_X]

Over the years, at least three definitions have emerged as the best statements:

Probable cause is where known facts and circumstances, of a reasonably trustworthy nature, are sufficient to justify a man of reasonable caution or prudence in the belief that a crime has been or is being committed. (reasonable man definition; common textbook definition; comes from Draper v. U.S. 1959)

Probable cause is what would lead a person of reasonable caution to believe that something connected with a crime is on the premises of a person or on persons themselves. (sometimes called the nexus definition; nexus is the connection between PC, the person's participation, and elements of criminal activity; determining nexus is the job of a judicial official, and it's almost always required in cases of search warrants, not arrest warrants)

Probable cause is the sum total of layers of information and synthesis of what police have heard, know, or observe as trained officers. (comes from Smith v. U.S. 1949 establishing the experienced police officer standard)

in the third definition, can someone tell me if experience can be mistaked for bias and how to tell?

[AZhitman]

Bias is in the eye of the beholder.

If I see an unshaven skinny person (usually White) riding a bicycle in my neighborhood, I can guaran-damn-tee you they're either dealing in meth, under the influence of meth, in possession of meth or on thir way to get some meth.

Unfortunately, some would call that BIAS.

The problem is this: Profiling works. I know no one likes to hear it, and everyone gets all butt-hurt over it, and it's unpopular to say so, but IT WORKS.

Pulling over vinyl-ed out Japanese cars with fartcans and young drivers is a SURE-FIRE way of catching illegal modifications, moreso than choosing cars at random, which is simply a waste of time.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

NOTE: I don't agree with the laws of CA, I think they're retarded.

[dickie]

too much smug in ca as it is.

[nchopp]

well isnt being a smart a** an entirely different violation? i still dont think that makes room to enforce laws if someones attitude can create a bias for everybody else who fits the profile.

its just like racial stereotyping/profiling. you can know and believe whatever you want about someones ethnic background, but it shouldnt tie in with how you treat them. its like saying "okay filipino people like to eat dog, so im going to treat the rest of them like they love it." its a ignorant assumption and does not constitute unfair treatment to someone else who happens to drive a car thats 96% identical to the last car this law enforcement official pulled over.

dont get me wrong, of course its law enforcements job to ENFORCE these rules. i just believe that it should be done more tactfully.

Um, how in the world do you enforce laws "tactfully"? We're not talking about telling someone the Hawiian shirt they're wearing is obnoxious or something. Like Greg said - profiling works. And as much as people hate it, most every stereotype and generalization is BASED in truth. There are of course exceptions to every case, and that's why it's called a stereotype - it does not fit ALL the members of a group. It's unfortunate that certain individuals ruin it for everyone, but hey. We all know California sucks anyway.

[Insurgent]

too much smug in ca as it is.

werd, but it makes for nice sunsets.

[takaramotors]

too much smug in ca as it is.

If you guys have a problem with Calafornia laws then maybe you should lobby the law makers. you see it all comes down to moneyand politics. This is why the east coast will have a bigger import market than the one in Calafornia.

[StrangeLove]

Problem is the way that people view cars. Normal people can't comprehend why anyone would spent extra money on a car. They see cars as just a means to get from A to B. They just don't care or understand. The people who makes the laws are normal people... Nothing is going to change

[szh]

too much smug in ca as it is.

Was that a deliberate typo? Or did you mean "smog"? Both are probably accurate!

I live here, but some of the stuff that goes on in the state really irritate me a lot!

Z

[Mr1der]

buy a daily driver that you don't mod?