Engine Swap Problems Q45t

[girlie girl]

I’m in desperate need of help. <sorry it’s long, but PLEASE read and help if you can>

You might remember me from a while back. I’m the one who blew the engine in my Q45t and had many questions about an engine swap. Well, I got the swap and I think I’ve got problems. I picked it up from the mechanic today. He told me to take it home over the weekend and try it out then bring it back to him on Monday. Now I know why. I just got back from a test drive and these are the problems I’m having. Can any of you help me before Monday…please!!??

Short background: I have a 94 Q45t, I told the guy not to swap anything older than a 94 into the car. I explained to him about the timing chain guide problems in pre-94’s and other non-compatibility issues. He got defensive, assured me that he knew what he was doing and that if he didn’t he’d have to make it right. (Famous last words) I told him that I thought it was important to stick with a 94-95 engine, he told me “don’t worry about it, it’ll be right”. I’m not sure what year this engine is, but I know it’s an earlier model because I saw the car that the engine came out of.

I found the original ECU in the trunk. It looks like he swapped out the engine and had to swap the ECU to make it work. I wonder if this early ECU is causing the transmission shifting issues that I’m experiencing.

Is this engine/ECU going to cause me problems or inferior performance?

1. The transmission has a heavy/hard gear change in the 1st and 2nd gears. There was never any transmission problem before. It won’t shift into 2nd until around 2500 rpm and sometimes you have to let off the gas to make it shift. He claims that the transmission is the same one that was in the car. The transmission is not slipping, it’s just shifting hard and at the wrong points.

Do you think the transmission problem is an isolated issue? If so, I don’t understand because it was working fine when I took the car to him.``

2. I hear a rhythmic chirping coming from the front of the engine (alternator side). Sounds like a worn baring. Could this be the dreaded timing chain guide going out??

3. Felt like the power steering blew on the highway test. I felt a few seconds of no control in the steering, so fast that I wasn’t sure if it was the road or the steering. When I got it off the highway, smoke was barreling out from under the hood. I’m loosing power steering fluid and it’s dripping onto the exhaust.

4. My steering wheel is on upside down. I guess they must have had to disconnect the steering linkage to swap the engine and didn’t bother to check proper positioning after the install.

5. The air-conditioner isn’t working. He claims it’s a Freon problem, I’m wondering if it’s an ECU compatibility problem. There were no air-conditioning problems before the swap.

6. The air bag light is on. The fan blows but there is no cooling.

7. The engine does seem to be idling and accelerating normally. I just wonder if I should expect some less obvious gremlins lurking do to this earlier ECU in my ’94t model.

Don’t even ask about cosmetics. It’s got a new dent with pealing paint on the front bumper. A deep ding in the front right fender and a nice new scratch on the front fender…looks like he was really careless making the swap and I’ve got cosmetic damage to prove it.

At this point I wonder if I should even go back and give this guy a chance to make it right, or if I should go somewhere else and deal with this guy in court. I haven’t paid him yet, he let me take the car for the weekend to “test drive” it. I can not believe that he let me leave his place with the car in this shape. What was he thinking, that I’m just a girl and I wouldn’t notice? That I would accept the car this way? He test drove the car, he had to notice the steering wheel was on upside down. Why is he wasting my time? I’m so disappointed and distraught, I don’t know what to do next.

[Carguy_NW]

DO NOT GO BACK!!! find a GOOD engine swap vendor or go to the dealership!!

Take a lot of pictures and document the damage..... But whatever you don't give this guy a dime...and get a good lawyer

good luck

[maxnix]

Where are you located? Seems like this guy is taking advantage of your trusting feminine nature. Don't know why you chose him, but don't go back without first seeing your attorney.

This job is totally botched by an ignorant person.

[BlackBirdVQ]

if you could get a better shot of the injector clips we will be able to tell you if its a pre 94 motor or not. Look for spliced wires into the injector clip harness- as he would need to cut off the plugs from your original wire harness and splice in the older style clips to make the injectors work. 90-93 use diff injectors, and the 94 plugs will NOT plug in. At the same time I don't think you can swap fuel rails and injectors onto a 90-93 motor without changing the lower intake manifold- which is not possible. 94-96 lower intake will not bolt up to the 90-93 head I belive.

You do not have FREON in your 94, its got R134a non CFC refrigerant. Most likely he doesn't even have a AC machine and discharged the refrigerant into the atmosphere when taking off the AC compressor. If he did vent the R134a into the air- he can be fined by the EPA a huuuuge amount of $$$ and they can close down his shop.

Get a lawyer, and take pictures of the car. Don't drive it.

[hardmoney]

gosh where do I begin? First off dont go back to this guy, The difference between the 90-93 engines and the 94-96 engines is enough to where you wouldn't want to attempt what hes done. There was even pretty significant changes from 94-96 (i.e variable valve timing).The problem your having with the engine ECU transmission TCU mismatch sounds like what you would expect. As for the "rhythmic chirping" sound goes I think it may have to do with the pulleys on your "new" engine. "T" car pulleys are a little wider,the belts will hang over the edge of the pulley and pull it down and as a result they stop spinning and freeze while your belts keep turning at a much slower rate(I learned that the hard way). This issue Im also sure is the reason you had your problem on the freeway with the power steering and probably is also not allowing your A/C compressor to spin quickly enough(thats if he didnt disconnect anything and just failed to recharge your system).With the dents and scratches its obvious what kind of regard he has for his work and worse yet someone else's property.My advise is do just as carguy suggested and document everything and file a small claim in court.As for us being able to help tell us where you live and Im sure one of the members here would be happy to suggest a mechanic they may know in your area thats trustworthy.Something else you may want to try is looking up the serial # on the new engine and ECU and having Wes (elwesso) look up the year for you to verify your suspicion and give you a little ammo on monday to throw at him when he asks why your not bringing the car back and why your not paying him.

[nuQ]

where are you located????????

[Q45denver]

Sounds like a typical quicky swap job done be someone one doesn't know much about these cars and doesn't care to. From what I can see of the valve cover ignitors it does look like a 90-93 engine which as you noted most likely still have the old guides installed not to mention the other upgrades the later engines had. Hopefully you have a warrantly or if you aready paid him it was with a credit card. Be sure to document everything and if he can't make it right take it to someone who can. Also make sure you get compenstated for that body damage.

[girlie girl]

I'm in Orlando, FL

Thanks for the replies. I'll take some better pictures today.

[gniknave]

Damn, if that doesn't sound like my last Q's engine swap....

[girlie girl]

Do you think the transmission problem is an isolated issue? I wonder if the earlier ECU is affecting the shifting of the 94 transmission???

[Q45denver]

Maybe they got some dirt in it or jarred some loose. A flush might help. I have a 90 ECU in my 1995 and it shifts the same. The TCU controls the shift points.

[maxnix]

Do you think the transmission problem is an isolated issue? I wonder if the earlier ECU is affecting the shifting of the 94 transmission???

I think your car has too many problems to isolate ecah easily.

You need to first determine what's there, then if it is correct, then is it installed correctly, and then in what conditon it is.

[girlie girl]

Here is the URL to my photobucket pics. Let me know if you cant open it and I will post individual pics.

http://photobucket.com/albums/...?sc=3

[gniknave]

My advice from a similar experience... Sell it for what you can, and move on. Learn from this experience. I'm not saying this to be negative, but AFTER swapping an engine and having similar results like yours, I went on to spend an additional 5k trying to get the Q in tip top shape. It never got to that point. I ended up selling it for $1,000 and buying another Q. Save yourself now unless you feel right about fixing these issues.

The hard part about swapping engines is if one person messes it up, then it's next to impossible for the next guy to come along and fix the screw up because he doesn't know how it was in the first place. Best bet is to find someone that knows the car through and through and have them do the work. Good luck finding someone like that though...

[3Q Jay]

powder blue rtv on pic #2 under valve cover confirms it is a 90-93 engine....94-96 had rubber gaskets.

looks a mess...fight to have it made right.

[maxnix]

What a mess! If the rest of the car is pristine, you have the funds and time, and you want to keep it, take it to T-3 and have them rehabilitate it including the correct rehabilitated JDM takeout VH45DE.

If not, move on.

[MattB]

Don't pay him anything. The guy is a monkey who is trying to rip you off. If he threatens to take you to court, laugh in his face.

[girlie girl]

Looks a mess?

You know, thats exactly what I thought when I looked under the hood. But then I dont remember what it all looked like before cause its been so long. Except I remember I was always impressed with the looks of the engine compartment on this car, now I look at it and I feel it looks trashy. Yet everything seems to be in its place??? hmmm

I really wasnt ready to sell this car. Ive been very happy with it. I wanted it fixed and keep driving it. Now Im just broken hearted. The interior and exterior is still near perfect. Smooth and quiet. With the BBS wheels and the mud flaps and the rear deck spoiler its a very elegant car and it still gets looks. Then I open the hood and my heart just sinks. I have cried over this many times today.

And this is complicated because this shop has another one of my cars, so if I dont pay him he will probably try to hold the other car hostage and I bet I will have to take him to court to recover the other car. As far as getting a lawyer, lawyers dont come cheap these days and it makes lawsuits not very cost effective unless its a high dollar case. I will probably be limited to Small Claims which goes up to $5K in FL for a $250 filing fee. I dont know, I bet if I went with the cops he would have to release the other car.

This guy has done work for me before and he treated me well, thats why I trusted him with this job. But now after he let me drive the car away in this condition I feel totally betrayed, insulted, and PISSED.

[Q45denver]

Do you know if the timing guides were replaced? If so, I might be inclined to have him fix everything thats wrong and or compensate you for what he can't. If not I'd demand it be done or a 94-95 engine. Any leaks? How many miles on the engine and what was the agreed upon price? Any warranty?

[girlie girl]

Haven't noticed any leaking other than the power steering problem.

BTW, I just realized that the "Airbag" light is on and it doesn't go off.

[girlie girl]

Any ideas on the Airbag warning light? Maybe just a loose connector?

[redmanfx]

Now maybe someone else can chirp in here but the 94 & on up engines are different from the 93 and older engines. Switching down like he did means he had to have different components then what he took off you're 94 engine. If he put your parts back on that 93 engine then things are not going to work well at all. When I was thinking of putting a brand new out of the box 94 engine in my 92 Q all I heard was "don't do it" because I would have to swap out so much other stuff and still might have issues. This guy screwed you over and needs to reimburse you for the work and give you the money to have it done the way you originally asked and the correct way.

red

[Raxephon]

Any ideas on the Airbag warning light? Maybe just a loose connector?

4. My steering wheel is on upside down.

Just a guess, but if they, or one of their children, played "free-wheel" with it disconnected from the rack, the spiral cable may be damaged.

[maxnix]

1.) You know, thats exactly what I thought when I looked under the hood. But then I dont remember what it all looked like before cause its been so long.

2.) I really wasnt ready to sell this car. Ive been very happy with it. I wanted it fixed and keep driving it. Now Im just broken hearted. The interior and exterior is still near perfect. Smooth and quiet. With the BBS wheels and the mud flaps and the rear deck spoiler its a very elegant car and it still gets looks.

3.) And this is complicated because this shop has another one of my cars, so if I dont pay him he will probably try to hold the other car hostage and I bet I will have to take him to court to recover the other car. As far as getting a lawyer, lawyers dont come cheap these days and it makes lawsuits not very cost effective unless its a high dollar case. I will probably be limited to Small Claims which goes up to $5K in FL for a $250 filing fee. I dont know, I bet if I went with the cops he would have to release the other car.

4.) This guy has done work for me before and he treated me well, thats why I trusted him with this job. But now after he let me drive the car away in this condition I feel totally betrayed, insulted, and PISSED.

1.) Doesn't speak well for prior maintanence, even for the fairer sex.

2.) Then look at taking it to T-3. If you have teh resources to tide you over, you will be mcuh happier. Don't be surprised if more than just the engine is neglected and/or abused.

3.) Get that car back from this hack now. If you don't think he wasn't screwing you over before, you must have just left the convent last night. Small claims court may be your best bet, but if you are not a JD, get some legal advice now.

4.) Then get over it and swing into action and get your assets away from this idiot and start procedures to make you whole again. Now. Today. Don't wait.

[Q45denver]

Can you tell which connectors were spliced and their quality, You really need to take it to someone that knows these cars and can provide a complete list of what needs to be done to make it right. Is there a dealer nearby? Not sure why they messed with the steering wheel or the ECU. The A/C compressor pulley was different on the 1994. He should have been able to swap it over from your old engine. Sounds like he didn't even replace the main seal while the engine was out. You should always get the engine reconditioned while it is out of the car.

[BlackBirdVQ]

As for your PS fluid leak, I noticed that in one of the pictures the power steering rack dust boot- one on the pass side it looks like... is torn. There seems to be some fluid leaking out of there also.

I looked at the pictures, and it didn't look THAT bad as you make it seem- just VERY dirty. He didn't even install new belts as I noticed cracks in the belts- one day the belt will snap on you leaving you with no alternator- thats what the belt in the picture looks like.

As for the small connector you are holding in your hands in one of the pictures... that connector doesn't go anywhere. My 94 base Q has the same connector by the firewall and it doesn't plug into anything. Its deff a 90-93 motor.

[BlackBirdVQ]

Notice the broken dust boot AND the PS fluid leaking out of it. Spliced in wires that look like your starter wires. They look like just butt connectors, which will rust out in the future and fail to make the starter work.

[maxnix]

Of course, putting a pre 1994 engine in this car is probably a violation of the Federal EPA laws.

This could give you a lot of leverage, as your attorney will surely explain this morning.

[96Qowner]

Short background: I have a 94 Q45t, I told the guy not to swap anything older than a 94 into the car. I explained to him about the timing chain guide problems in pre-94’s and other non-compatibility issues. He got defensive, assured me that he knew what he was doing and that if he didn’t he’d have to make it right. (Famous last words) I told him that I thought it was important to stick with a 94-95 engine, he told me “don’t worry about it, it’ll be right”. I’m not sure what year this engine is, but I know it’s an earlier model because I saw the car that the engine came out of.

This is the part I can't get past. You TOLD him he shouldn't swap in a 90-93. You TOLD him ... repeatedly! I'd have sympathy for the guy, if not for that. The average non-Q45 tech wouldn't know what an impossible hassle it was going to be. But YOU TOLD HIM. He should at least have checked it out more before he started. So go toe-to-toe with him about that. His attitude will tell you a lot.

Maybe offer to sell it to him, and let him take all the time he wants, trying to puzzle out how to make it right. Maybe make your other repair a freebie and he pays you the difference?

[maxnix]

Maybe offer to sell it to him, and let him take all the time he wants, trying to puzzle out how to make it right. Maybe make your other repair a freebie and he pays you the difference?

I wouldn't trust this clown to fix a flat on my bicycle.