170 RWHP? Need some opinions before I blow this money

[ivanqz]

Getting ready to spend money on mods for my KA. I just would like some input and other options.

Proposed KA mods:

AEM intake........................................... $170PDM N/A cams..................................... $650Hotshot header 2.5 in. outlet................ $3212.5 in. VRS cat-back............................. $320Crank Pulley......................................... $180Emanage + Fuel/Ignition harness.......... $350Fidanza flywheel.................................. $275ACT clutch and disc kit..........................$360

TOTAL............................................. ......$2626

Expected power: 160 to 170 RWHP and 160 to 170 TQCompression on all 4 cylinders @ 178 psiMy 240 weights exactly 2751 lb with a little more that 1/4 of tank of gas.

It is my daily driver and maybe some HPDE so I'm planing to keep it N/A

Is this a realistic estimate?How much louder is 3 inch exhaust than the 2.5 inch what is the difference in HP?What kind of 1/4 mile will this set up do?What do you guys this of this set up?

Thanks

[emperor_lunchbox]

get a turbo

[InsanityInc]

Forget everything on your list except for the intake, then get a:

3" Exhaust3" cat

Get a machine shop to weld a large plenum to the end of the upper manuifold runners, and ditch your factory plenum.

Then, get a set of adjustable cam gears and retard your cams anywhere from 6-12 degrees.

[ivanqz]

Hey InsanityInc is this what you mean?

http://www.xcessivemotorsports...tep=4

[InsanityInc]

eh, sort of. But you could get it ghetto done at any machine shop for a lot cheaper.

Also, does that one even have anywhere to put the idle control valves?

[AmoebAssassin]

Honestly, for 2600 bucks...turbo your KA with an SR setup (SR 370cc injectors, T25 or T28, SAFC or burnt ECU) and make 200rwhp+

[n_bogie]

yes turbo is one option but it is also not for everyone. i myself have done a turbo conversion and i found myself tring to stay outta bust to save the gas. everyone plays there own game but to make 200 hp n/a is a greater ach. then slapping on a turbo in my book.

[bruinbear714]

Crank pulley is $180 now? When I got mine a couple years ago it was about $100. Also, Exedy or Spec clutches might be a little cheaper than ACT, as they have recently jacked up their prices. There's no need to go crazy on the clutch unless you're planning to push more power later down the road.

[n_bogie]

just a question whats the rule of thumb on intake manafolds longer the runner is for higher in the rpm band right? i cant fully remember how it worked.

[InsanityInc]

Longer, smaller diameter runners are for low end, shorter, larger diameter runners are for high end.

[n_bogie]

now the question is what does long large ones do?

[ivanqz]

Is there a write up anywhere on turboed KA with SR parts?
Modified by ivanqz at 8:12 PM 2/11/2006

[TrueSlide]

BigV has a good writeup on club240 on making power with a KA N/A for cheap. Will be alittle more cause the CAMS he wrote it for at the time are like gone. So expensive cams are all that exist now. But cheaper then your price tag you got there.

[ivanqz]

Thanks for the replies guys. I gonna turbo it.

[Bigvinnie]

Getting ready to spend money on mods for my KA. I just would like some input and other options.

Proposed KA mods:

AEM intake........................................... $170PDM N/A cams..................................... $650Hotshot header 2.5 in. outlet................ $3212.5 in. VRS cat-back............................. $320Crank Pulley......................................... $180Emanage + Fuel/Ignition harness.......... $350Fidanza flywheel.................................. $275ACT clutch and disc kit..........................$360

TOTAL............................................. ......$2626

Expected power: 160 to 170 RWHP and 160 to 170 TQCompression on all 4 cylinders @ 178 psi

First off you are spending way too much money for those modifications.Secondly Just with a retune, cat back exhaust, header, and aluminum pulley with high octane you can break 170WHP without the cam. So expect more like 185WHP with the cam, (if you got a JWT cam instead it would be closer to 190WHP I'd say).......

get a turbo

Not everyone enjoy's a turbo, and it goes off topic to what he is doing. Maybe he enjoy's the throttle responce of NA.

I'm tired of hearing go turbo, use your brains and learn how to build NA instead of bolting on turbo's.
Modified by Bigvinnie at 2:10 PM 2/12/2006

[InsanityInc]

I wouldn't expect much from the current aftermarket KA-DE cams. Measuring them in the Nissan OEM method shows them to only be about 254-256 degrees, instead of the 272+ that they advertise. All the dynos I've seen of either PDMs or JWTs cams only show about a 5whp increase, and considering they're only going up 6-8 degrees from factory, it's about all I'd expect.

[TrueSlide]

Not everyone enjoy's a turbo, and it goes off topic to what he is doing. Maybe he enjoy's the throttle responce of NA.

I'm tired of hearing go turbo, use your brains and learn how to build NA instead of bolting on turbo's.

Yes, it seems like when it comes to modifying the KA, turbo is a automated response. I quit going to local forums cause they trashed me for believing the KA has the possibility of 200hp with not much effort, just alittle know how and research.

[aaroneezee]

with that much money, i would leave out the cams for how much they are and get a nice port and polish, and port match the intake and the exhaust manifolds. that alone would make more power than cams if anything, then later on if you still want the extra power, get the cams.

so for me, HEADWORK>CAMS

and i dont know why people say a 3" is too loud, jus as long as you have a resonator or silencer its not as loud as you would think. it makes more power n/a than 2 1/2 and i think theres many people who can prove it.

[Bigvinnie]

Yeah I was also going to say, don't fool yourself on aluminum pulleys, you can get them for under $60 through Megan Racing, or some othertype of imitation brand. CAT back exhaust systems I've seen for under $200. As far as pulling good numbers in HP and torque the DC sports header is all around the best header. Get a biki rom for $300, not that hard to tune yourself.........

That emanage is a worthless piggy back, get a bikirom.....

[Bigvinnie]

I wouldn't expect much from the current aftermarket KA-DE cams. Measuring them in the Nissan OEM method shows them to only be about 254-256 degrees, instead of the 272+ that they advertise. All the dynos I've seen of either PDMs or JWTs cams only show about a 5whp increase, and considering they're only going up 6-8 degrees from factory, it's about all I'd expect.

There are always alternatives that are cheap for $90 such as regrinding the cams at a machine shop. Limitless possibilities the KA can even use cam specs from the CA16/18/20de since they use the same bucket hydraulic assembly. I even looked at there stock lobe and durations and they are so close to being the same. That means cam specs from HKS could even be used, if you could get ahold of the specs.I've also seen this old school trick with modifying the buckets for higher lifts...

[JimmyMethod]

You can go pretty crazy with cams, but how much low end do you want to sacrifice? Extreme cams are NOT what you want to drive everyday with.

Bore out the KA, with some high compression heads.

[H.D.HUMPERDINK]

You could buy an aem ems for $1400 and gain around 37hp and 45ft lbs

[SonyPete]

Limitless possibilities the KA can even use cam specs from the CA16/18/20de since they use the same bucket hydraulic assembly.

How does it having similiar valve train hardware make it so you can use the same cam specs. Plus the CA is a smaller engine and way shorter stroke which totally effects the what is called for in terms of duration in the cam. Plus head designs also effects cam requirements. Not ripping ya just too many variables to just copy cam specs among engines.

[ivanqz]

"You could buy an aem ems for $1400 and gain around 37hp and 45ft lbs"

Really? How do you figure? Have links?

[Bigvinnie]

How does it having similiar valve train hardware make it so you can use the same cam specs. Plus the CA is a smaller engine and way shorter stroke which totally effects the what is called for in terms of duration in the cam. Plus head designs also effects cam requirements. Not ripping ya just too many variables to just copy cam specs among engines.

Well not to rip on you but you should of quoted my whole post. I stated that the lift and duration from the stock cams of the CA18de are very similar to that of the KA in lift and duration ( don't believe me google it, I already did). Displacement size doesn't matter to lift and duration as much as Ignition timing and BTDC does since all cranks "ALWAYS" rotate in 360degress. Durations and lift are a simple formula that follow aspiration of the engine to the position of the crank, not it's displacement.For a fact I have used the buckets from the CA on the KA as well as the retainers. The valvetrain is the "same". You should research better.....Most cam specs from an inline 4banger using the same valve train and ignition timing can usually run the same specs (sometimes as a performance enhancer or using it to an advantage for fuel economy). I use to do this with Lseries engines from the L16 to the L20b. I also learned this from the CA18de guy's that used the CA16de cams claiming that they were slightly better.I also have a buddy of mine experimenting with the CA cam specs on the KA and is actually showing some pretty positive results.

[ivanqz]

Perhaps I wasn't very clear on my original post, I am not looking for HP nubers, I just wanted a fun and reliable car. I have a NX2000, it comes with a SR20DE. It is lightly moded, CAI, cat-back, pullies, Light flywhel, clutch, and the complete suspension done. It is a very fun car but it is slow to todays standars. I was not planning on buying a 240 but an oportunity came up and......It was an ipulse buy. I really like the 240 and RWD really is more fun. But, I got used to the SR20DE's nice and linear pull all the way to redline . After looking a several KA dyno charts the problem was very clear. As I've reading, the KA does run out of breath after 5500 rpm. Also there is a somwhat abrupt suge of power between 3k rpm and 4k rpm. Cams help this problem, judging by the shape of the power band on KAs with cams and after speaking with the owner of PDM racing and some guy at JWT. I already bought the cams, but I think I am gonna turbo it. Sorry for all the rambling.
Modified by ivanqz at 10:16 PM 2/12/2006

[Bigvinnie]

"You could buy an aem ems for $1400 and gain around 37hp and 45ft lbs"

Really? How do you figure? Have links?

Actually he was wrong and it also used header and filter to make an additional 27HP and 30ft/lb.s of torque.Pretty shiaty results for a $1400 plug and play IMO....http://www.dcsports.com/240SX/

[Bigvinnie]

I really like the 240 and RWD really is more fun. But, I got used to the SR20DE's nice and linear pull all the way to redline .

How much linearity are you talking about???? The sr doesn't even begin to pull good HP and Torque numbers until almost 3000RPM. It takes way to long for the engine to make power for it's Revolutions Per Minute......By the way you do know you are in the KA forum.......

[bruinbear714]

Actually he was wrong and it also used header and filter to make an additional 27HP and 30ft/lb.s of torque.Pretty shiaty results for a $1400 plug and play IMO....http://www.dcsports.com/240SX/

Sounds about right... On a bone stock motor with no mods I got 6rwhp and 12 ft/lbs with a ecu retune.

The $1400 ecu is only beneficial if you need major re-tuning or have a major change in engine profile.

[SonyPete]

Well not to rip on you but you should of quoted my whole post. I stated that the lift and duration from the stock cams of the CA18de are very similar to that of the KA in lift and duration ( don't believe me google it, I already did). Displacement size doesn't matter to lift and duration as much as Ignition timing and BTDC does since all cranks "ALWAYS" rotate in 360degress. Durations and lift are a simple formula that follow aspiration of the engine to the position of the crank, not it's displacement.For a fact I have used the buckets from the CA on the KA as well as the retainers. The valvetrain is the "same". You should research better.....

Umm doens't matter if I quoted your whole thing or not as it doesn't change what I was saying. SO what if there close in lift and duration Nissan got those specs based on totally differne't thing then having the same valvetrain components. I don't need to research better about whether or not they use the same buckets or retainers CAUSE I am not disputing that. LOL

Your right, displacement doens't matter, STROKE DOES. A engine that has a longer stroke needs longer duration due to the piston still coming down and being able to pull in air unlike a shorter stroke engine. Also depeneding on rod to stroke ratio you have a longer or shorter dwell time of the pistons at TDC and BDC which affects what is needed in terms of duration. So how about you go do a little of that stuff hmm what is it called, ohh yea "RESEARCH"

The CA and KA having same interchangable valve train parts has no relavancy what so ever to being able to use simliar cam specs. Hey they might both use simliar cam specs but that is based on a whole lotta other variables then similiar components or even stroke.

Modified by SonyPete at 9:57 PM 2/12/2006

Modified by SonyPete at 11:26 PM 2/12/2006
Modified by SonyPete at 11:27 PM 2/12/2006