Why [again] are K & N Cone Air filters JUNK ?

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SOCAL91Q45a
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» No Results Found

Your search for Air Filter returned no results.Please try different search criteria or a different data set.

Im not a big fan of the search "feature" at this time due to the site change over.

That said ....

I know there was discussion ad nauseum about the K & N Cone filters Stillen used to put on our cars. I, in fact have one on my car now I know there is a reason they are NOT a good idea, but I cant recall exactly.

Please remind me or point me to the right links to re-learn.

Anyway to make the K&N I have work right?


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DAEDALUS
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I got 5 results for "k&n" using Q45tech as a filter.

zerothread?id=69223

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Rex
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I think one of the biggest reasons is the risk for the "oil" from the filter to get on the MAF. Maybe not on the first, but during re-oils.

Also, I found this zerothread?id=89831

96Qowner
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And I found this on a search:

"K&N Filter with the oil pleated element is not recommended for nissan/infiniti's. Nissan has service bulletins outlining their use concerning unstable idle, poor maf readings due to the oil coating clouding the air flow sensor element etc.etc. You will be using it at your own risk.. You don't want to replace an air flow sensor..can hit your wallet hard.."

Be sure to click on ----------- Post Bodies (Return a post listing, slower), otherwise you just get searches for the subject title.

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gniknave
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Wow perfect timing. I was just about to order a K&N cone filter kit for my 240...which has a check engine light on for a MAF code. Well guess I won't be doing that!

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Rex
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Well in 13 minutes I think we cover that one like a blanket.

SOCAL - hoped that helps.

Funny thing is at times there are posts that see no response for nearly a day (sometimes ever) and then we have these that 4 people respond to all at once. Inf Gen is the best place to be .

Q45tech
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The problem is that modern well designed air intake systems have little restrictions to flow...........everything in front of MAF is less than the MAF alone [~~7 inches water column or a 1/4 of a psi]...........the oem air filter itself is like 1-1.5" at 6500 rpm........~~0.05 psi........hard to even measure at the low air flow rates a 274 ci motor requires.

Now a cone filter gets rid of the sound deading and special tuning [for highway fuel economy] water ingress protection in front of filter..............so 5/28 or 0.1785 psi so up to 1.2% improvement with many many downsides.

Not sure 2-3 HP is worth the hassles [summer idle and acceleration problem from under hood HEAT] and potential MAF failures.

SOCAL91Q45a
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Thanks all - anyone got a stock airbox extra around?

Best way to maintain this Stillen installed K & N Cone filter until I get a suitable replacement stock system? Filter appears dry.

Is there a knowm Air Intake "assembly" tube that will work on the Q that might provide stock performance - yet "appear" a bit sportier under the hood?

I noticed some heat/wear cracking under the hoseclamp where the stock tube mounts to the Throttle Body.

3rd Q
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Socal,I can get you the stock air box and/ or everything up to the TB. Let me know if interested.Paul

SOCAL91Q45a
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3rd - youve got mail :-)

Thx man

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rsiwicki
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attached is a pic of my setup with a heat sheild that I just got done fabricating today. I took the pic with camera cell phone at night so small and blurry and will try to use better camera tomorrow.

Before I had a drop in rectangular K&N filter with a custom ram-air setup. Now I have a redone the intake system using a new very flexible 4" hose clamped down tight on both ends from the 4"x10" ram air scoop attached to part mid part of the stock piping and then leading into where the stock airbox use to be. I used some very flexible aluminum sheet from HomeDepot and a cutter and was able to get a very nice tight fit along the body lines of where the old stock air box was and then sealed it all off with some rubber insullation where the aluminum meets the car to get a very tight fit and no engine bay heat. At last I folded over the top back over towards the fender and now have one hell of a custom sealed heat shield.

Unless my butt dyno is off tonight, the results in performance are very noticeable as my 1-2 & 2-3 shifts are more harsh/strong than they were before not too mention my overall acceleration was faster. The sound is a very nice growl and only noticeable from 4,000rpms onwards at WOT. I know others say the performance is not that much different, but at least for my case it is a very noticeable difference of before & after. This is the first time I have used the JWT Popcharger because of the lack of a CAI and I finally got my lazy butt up this moring, ran to homedepot to get supplies, and did it in about 4 hours. In the last year I have had my drop in K&N filter I have yet to have any MAF sensor or idling problems, but I did spray the MAF with brake cleaner fluid really good just as a precautionary measure.

Q45tech
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Only a quarter mile run will tell the tail, butt dynos are tempered with wishful thinking and the "sound of power".........after all I did all that work it must be faster.

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Jeff Williams
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Q45tech wrote:Only a quarter mile run will tell the tail, butt dynos are tempered with wishful thinking and the "sound of power".........after all I did all that work it must be faster.
I was recently disapointed. After several tests, I found my "butt dyno" was off 13%!

It looks like you did a lot of work. Do you hahve any insulation in that box? I would suggest wrapping it with Dynamat, or some kind of fiber board, to help, when cruising in traffic on those hot summer days.

I bought some HVAC fiberboard and foil tape, to build a box for mine, but never got off my "butt dyno" to do it. Maybe I'll put that on my task list. I always did like the growl that the POP Charger made.

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rsiwicki
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A lot of work it was (4 hours) and I had not expected any benefits what so ever which is part of the reason why it has been sitting in my closet for almost a year. I know only 1/4 ET's will determine if any real improvement has been made and weather pending Wednesday night will be done with new 1/4 ET's. At first did not think that there was much of a difference until I felt the 1-2 & 2-3 shift at WOT. There is definitely a much more noticeable kick right after the shift.

I tried using some HVAC board and other type of stuff first since because of the insulation and lack of heat conductivity properties, but was unable to get some of the bends and fit I wanted so I went with the aluminum setup with some HVAC/rubber insullation along the edges where it meet the body of the car to seal it up best as possible (99% sealed really good) from engine bay heat. I know the aluminum will conduct heat, but my hopes are that my large air scoop (4"x10") in the front will force more than enough fresh outside air into the chamber that it will not have the opportunity to heat up before entering the throttle body. I have got the air scoop 4" tubing connected and sealed very nicely and snug so no air is escaping. Sitting at a long traffic light in the hot Miami summer heat will definitely not help at all and probably hurt performance for the first few feet until some fresh air gets into the air filter chamber. I don't really intend nor have yet to race anybody from a stop light. Car is just plain too slow off the line and there are too many variables such as reaction time and the wonderful Miami drivers who all run the red lights make it unsafe. On the wide open freeway is where I plan to race if the opportunity should arise.

I got another nice kill this morning against a Hemi 300C. We went at it from 50mph to 80mph with me pulling away, but he did put up a pretty good fight being the Hemi was much quicker than the new 530i I raced a month ago.

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PoorManQ45
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I can't really tell from that picture, but did you make an "access panel" so you can easily change the filter Or do you have to take the whole box apart to do that?

Also, Jeff suggested putting insualtion on the inside of it. I do not suggest do that as it will reduce the volume and add some restriction, and it would get rid of that nice growl that you mentioned . I recommend wrapping the OUTSIDE of the box with insulation, if you're going to insulate it at all.

Anyway, good job, it looks good. Now you just need to polish the aluminum up a little better

SOCAL91Q45a
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".....wishful thinking and the "sound of power"..

Regardless ... I do so ENJOY the SOUNd of power that these beasts emit

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Jason B
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In summary...

Can you see individual dust particals? Nope.

Can you see holes in the K&N filter if you hold it up to the light? Yep.

If the holes are bigger then the dust particals, then how does the filter stop the particals? IT Can't.

Q45tech
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These small but hard [harder than piston rings] [usually sand silicon dioxide] are what cause the majority of upper ring wear [loss of compression] in engines.

Look and the expensively designed sand trap [pocket in bottom - closest to engine] in oem air box and the things that get caught in it.

Should be cleaned out [vacuum] every 90 days [when you change oil] if you are particular about extending engine life.

Once the rings are worn not much helps compression.

maxnix
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Q45tech wrote:Look and the expensively designed sand trap [pocket in bottom - closest to engine] in oem air box and the things that get caught in it.

Should be cleaned out [vacuum] every 90 days [when you change oil] if you are particular about extending engine life.
You know, it never has occurred to me that anyone wouldn't do this.

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PoorManQ45
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Q45tech wrote:Look and the expensively designed sand trap [pocket in bottom - closest to engine] in oem air box and the things that get caught in it.
Ok, so one of the "baffles" in the airbox is not just for frequency tuning, but is there as a sand trap? I didn't know that, but I did know to vacumm out the airbox.

Q45tech
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Without a sand trap, sand will embed in filter material and may work its way thru at high flows when there is sufficient velocity. Especially cotton vs. paper.

Helicopter crashes in IRAQ with oiled cotton air filters?

"During the Gulf War, sandstorms forced crews of the Army's heavy M1 Abrams tank to frequently change air filters to keep sand out of their turbine engines.

But it doesn't always help to change filters frequently. In 2001, nearly half of the Challenger tanks deployed in a British training exercise in Oman ground to an early halt after sand clogged their air filters and shut down their engines. A report by Britain's National Audit Office attributed the problems to an unusually fine sand the British Army hadn't encountered before in tank operations, and the report recommended new seals, skirts, and other fixes to shield moving parts. "


TgduMg
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rsiwicki wrote:I got another nice kill this morning against a Hemi 300C. We went at it from 50mph to 80mph with me pulling away, but he did put up a pretty good fight.
YEAH!!! Lets hear it for "Da Beast"

Danisiti 1


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