Oil consumption test = new motor.

[New2Import]

Well Im getting a new engine. Dropped it off today and should have it back in a week or so. On 31K on the clock. Oil was below the lower dot.

[szh]

Good Stuff™!

Z

[tigerclaws1318]

Awesome stuff, I got 600 miles left before the dealer can decide if they are willing to put a new engine.

[antzrus]

Well Im getting a new engine. Dropped it off today and should have it back in a week or so. On 31K on the clock. Oil was below the lower dot.

I'm missing something. A new engine @ only 31k miles????

[New2Import]

My car uses oil. Blue smoke on start up. It was below the lower dot which is around 24 MM loss of oil in 3700 miles. Tigerclaw they made me go the 700 extra so look out for that one. They dont know the fix yet so a new engine is going in. Could be the PCV system to the engine not being broke in properly by the first owner causing the rings not to seat properly. They are not gonna tear it down and make me wait. I guess its gonna be torn down and inspected I assume. They had to take valve covers and intake off and take pic before the decision was made. But I got a call yesterday at work saying a new block will be ordered.

[tigerclaws1318]

Wow 24mm is a lot of oil being consumed. Im also at 31k miles with the car right now. Thanks for the heads up with the extra 700 miles.

[SteveTheTech]

This is only really seen on the VK on some models from 02-late06 and not all of them use oil. Almost all have have some blue smoke, but that is common to almost all imported V8s. MBs are real bad and I've seen a few BMWs do it too. There was also a Quardaporta I saw that the mall that had a fair cloud for a brief second after it started.

Infiniti has a BS setup for the service department to go through before they will consider this. They go to the extent of not only making us prove it but them a deyailed estimate of the cost of a new engine? Really they make you call Infiniti and tell them how much it is going to cost to replace the effected components. With a block that has been run low the entire thing should be replaced. It is actually cheaper than replacing everything piece by piece.

[qship96]

Impossible to blow blue smoke without SOME oil getting into combustion chamber and burning..........blue smoke IS oil burning!!!!!!!!

Poor engine design/build, period!!! My 230,000 mile 13 year old VH45 doesnt even blow blue smoke yet-none!!!

[tigerclaws1318]

Here's a quick video of how much smoke comes out the tail pipe during start ups. There are days where its twice as much smoke.

http://s139.photobucket.com/al...1.flv

[SteveTheTech]

Impossible to blow blue smoke without SOME oil getting into combustion chamber and burning..........blue smoke IS oil burning!!!!!!!!

Poor engine design/build, period!!! My 230,000 mile 13 year old VH45 doesnt even blow blue smoke yet-none!!!

That's a VH....It's not even the same thing in this case. The VH was an amazing engine but not efficient enough to meet the needs of modern cars. My J is the same way. It's fun it has a great note to its operation, but it's old outdated technology. Things are not the way they used to be but there are more pros than cons when it comes to advanced technology. An example of that is more than 4 fan speed setting, auto up windows, actual integration between the transmission and the dynamic control features.

[1scott]

Quick question, is that 24mm difference on the dipstick-how much oil in quarts does this eqate too. My 06 M45 I just got two months ago with 29000kmi checked the dipstick and it was on the lower level dot, added almost a quart to bring upto the upper dot on the dipstick took it for service in 3000miles later and oil was 1/4 way above the lower dot. I told the service writer this and he said that it is normal for high compression engines to burn some oil but the M45 holds seven quarts so no need for concern. Since the last service I have around 600 miles onit and just checked it and it is just in the middle of the dots but I did not check it when I got it back from service, will keep you upto date. I have not noticed any smoke on start up but have not looked for it either. How much oil burn is acceptable. Thanks/Scott.

[SteveTheTech]

Scott,

I do not have actual numbers for the dipstick. You need to start with a fresh oil change and 6 qts of oil. When the car is cold and has sat for a while check the level. They are very sensitive to inclination and temperature. A check needs to be performed every 1,000 miles and documented. Any test you perform yourself will need to be repeated by the dealer (records and the such).

This is not acknowledgment of an issue just how the dealer evaluates what oil being lost under normal operating conditions. There is indeed an acceptable amount and most of these use a little as part of normal operation.

[M45Caliber]

It's VERY important to check your oil right after a dealer service, if you are going to do your own informal oil consumption test --

personal experience shared: I started reading about the consumption problems for this motor last year (I have a 2003 which, at the time, had maybe 30K on it). I had the oil/filter changed at a local Infiniti dealer and had driven it approximately 1,000 miles since that change, and decided to go out to the garage and check my oil level. Whoa - I was down to the bottom dot on the stick, so I grabbed a bottle of Valvoline 5/30 and poured it in - checked again (after waiting 5 min) and the dipstick was right at the top of the upper dot. So, over the course of the next 2750 miles, I am monitoring the oil level to see how much I use. I end up adding another 3/4 of a quart to bring it to the top dot.

Take it back to the same Infiniti dealer and they immediately agree to do the consumption test, as nearly 2 quarts/oil in 3750 miles is excessive for todays tight tolerance engines.

So, it's 1,000 miles into the test and I check the dip stick and the oil level is just below the top dot? WTF is up with that? At any rate, over the next 2750 miles I used "almost" a quart of oil -- more than acceptable for nearly 4,000 miles, especially the way I drive it. So -- why would this be? My STRONG hunch - 5 qts added vs 6 qts needed.

Most engines take 5 quarts of oil; the M45's take SIX. I would bet my paycheck to the techs that he only added 5 Qts that previous change, and so when I checked it and found it slightly over a qt down, I am SURE that was why. My M was NOT burning oil but the techs inability to count caused me to have a Malox Moment. So I told the service manager to be sure the techs check the levels on the M45's BEFORE they send the cars back out.

So, much ado about nothing. I now pop my hood and check my oil level before driving away. Bet they love seeing me do that in their delvery/inspection driveway.


Modified by M45Caliber at 12:55 PM 7/4/2009

[rsg123]

hmm...did not know this was an issue that affected the second gen M45s. Maybe I should sell it while I can still make a profit...

[New2Import]

Got the car back today and it runs so smooth. You can tell it needs to be broken in.

[tigerclaws1318]

Got the car back today and it runs so smooth. You can tell it needs to be broken in.

Awesome, how long did it take them?

[New2Import]

I dropped it off the 3rd but it was late. They didnt get the motor ordered til the 6th so Id say less than a week once they got the engine.

[tigerclaws1318]

Was the car sitting at the dealer the whole time during the ordering process?

[New2Import]

Yes they take it if it fails and start tearing it down..taking pics etc.

[tigerclaws1318]

ok cool thanks

[tigerclaws1318]

Went to the dealer this morning for the final consumption test results and the service advisor didnt tell me weather it was good or bad. The only thing he told me was if they needa order any parts they will call me. He didnt even give me a copy of the repair order or anything.

The car is currently at 32k miles so now I just gotta wait and see on their decision.

[The00Dustin]

Does anyone know what the maximum oil usage that Infiniti considers normal is? I don't see any reason to have them do a consumption test if my car isn't really using that much oil. I believe it is using quart every 4000 miles, but I am not yet positive on that.

[SteveTheTech]

hmm...did not know this was an issue that affected the second gen M45s. Maybe I should sell it while I can still make a profit...

I do not think I would go to that extreme, but as The00Dustin pointed out not all M45s have an issue with consumption and there really is not a vin range or production date linking them to the same production run.

[1scott]

Rechecked oil level after 1500 more miles and level is BELOW the lower dot. This is the first non Toyota car I have owned in many years and none of them have ever used a drop of oil, ok maybe leaking oil after the 130k mark. My Wifes Sequouia has 94000mi and does not use any oil and I it has been changed the oil every 5000mi, I dont even check it between changes as it has never used any, I did buy it new. Now after just three months of ownership I will be needing an engine! Is thier any other reason for this oil useage, maybe a PCV valve? I only hope they do a good job fixing it. Has anyone got Infiniti to buy back the cars with this issue? Now I have to deal with this crap, I expected to drive the car and enjoy it for many years, now I will have to get it fixed and live with a car could need a motor in another 35k! New2import did they at least give you a car to drive while yours was out of service for all that time. When you say a block is that include the cylinder heads or just the block with pistons? This is insane for a modern day luxury car to get less than 35000 miles out of an engine!!! I will never buy anther Nissan product again if this is the type of crap they put out on the market and considering they have known about the problem for so long, shame on them.

Modified by 1scott at 8:09 PM 7/25/2009
Modified by 1scott at 8:12 PM 7/25/2009

[New2Import]

Yes I got a loaner G35. They replaced the long block.

[SteveTheTech]

Rechecked oil level after 1500 more miles and level is BELOW the lower dot. This is the first non Toyota car I have owned in many years and none of them have ever used a drop of oil, ok maybe leaking oil after the 130k mark. My Wifes Sequouia has 94000mi and does not use any oil and I it has been changed the oil every 5000mi, I dont even check it between changes as it has never used any, I did buy it new.

This is not something that is limited Infiniti in the least. Almost all of the European luxury sedans with 8 cylinder and larger engines have some measure of oil consumption and blue smoke at startup. Cadillacs and MBs used huge amounts of oil and their crankcase filling requirements reflected as such. One of my coworkers spent many years working at a large Caddy dealer and said the Northstar motor would easily burn through 3qts of oil between services.

Now after just three months of ownership I will be needing an engine! Is thier any other reason for this oil useage, maybe a PCV valve? I only hope they do a good job fixing it. Has anyone got Infiniti to buy back the cars with this issue?

You may have only owned the car for three months but the fact of the matter is your car is actually at least three years old and has been in service for several years. No matter how many miles may be on it.

Now I have to deal with this crap, I expected to drive the car and enjoy it for many years, now I will have to get it fixed and live with a car could need a motor in another 35k! New2import did they at least give you a car to drive while yours was out of service for all that time. When you say a block is that include the cylinder heads or just the block with pistons?

I don't know why you are getting so exasturbated over this.It's only a car, there is no need to get all hot and bothered. If you do have an oil consumption issue and your 7/70 powertrain warranty is still applicable your whole engine will be replaced. I have replaced a few of the early 06 M45 long block assembly and have never seen a repeat issue. The long block comes in a large box with the heads, block, and timing chain already installed. All the technician has to do is remove it from the car and swap the accessories, intake and exhaust system components.

This is insane for a modern day luxury car to get less than 35000 miles out of an engine!!! I will never buy anther Nissan product again if this is the type of crap they put out on the market and considering they have known about the problem for so long, shame on them.

You really need to take a deep breathe and crack open a nice bottle of wine and enjoy the summer. Life is too short. I too tend to get very worked up over things that I actually have no control over and it is allot of work to get that mad at inanimate objects.

If this is the only reason that you loath this car that is seems like you are not taking in the whole picture. This is a great car and as many of the members here rave about them. The M45 is an amazing car for both its performance and technological aspects. Don't stress it too much and really the dealer will be much more willing to help you if you are not threatening, it's human nature.

As the second owner of the car you have NO shot getting Nissan to buy your car back.Plain and simply the law is not in your favor. The lemon law criteria in most states applies solely to the first owner. If your car is actually burning oil it will get replaced if it, and that is that. ( http://www.800helpfla.com/lemo....html )

[1scott]

You are right Steve, I am calmed way down now. Should not have checked my oil level the day before my Jamaica vacation, should have checked it after my stress level was down a bit. I am going to the dealer next Wensday the 5th and see what they say. I just dont want to drive the 3000mi and run the oil way down, as a pilot it just goes against my judgement. I have a negative view on a engine swap, after having a 1985 Honda CRX Si with around 47kmi on the timing belt broke and in those days no powertrain warranty, so I beared the bill, I was without a car for around a Month (At 19 this really sucked and I had to borrow the money from my Parents). After I got that car back it had many issues, one being the A/C compressor siezed (no oil put back in) and Honda would not cover this either. 20 years later still have never owned a Honda and still steer clear of cars that use timing belts. I know I have a warranty plan but wish I did not have to use it and I hope times have changed. I have never owned any euro cars, my Dad has a 2003 Benz E320, it is slow, he has had many minor electric issues (Radio quits working, memory seats dont remember), but the oil changes services are around once a year, compared with the M45 it is better built but not as fun to drive, did I mention its is down on power, he got it new for around the same price of a new M45. Thanks for the input.
Modified by 1scott at 7:48 AM 7/27/2009

[szh]

Does anyone know what the maximum oil usage that Infiniti considers normal is? I don't see any reason to have them do a consumption test if my car isn't really using that much oil. I believe it is using quart every 4000 miles, but I am not yet positive on that.

More than 1 qt every 1000 miles is the "overly high usage" criterion that Infiniti uses to make decisions about the engine.

My 2003 M45 needs about 1/4 to 1/2 qt every 1750 miles. Since I change the oil at the 3750 mark (without adding anything), it is effectively going through less than 1 qt between oil changes.

Z

[New2Import]

Well if its broken and its under warranty Infiniti will honor and replace it with no questions. Im very pleased with Infinti of Nashville. I took it in for a inspection when I first bought it and got wheel bearings replaced. I mention the oil loss and they started the oil test right then and there. Showed video of smoke and gave them copies of the video. 3700 miles later a new engine. I cant complain. Is it a hassle by keep going back every 1000 miles yes but its worth to know if you need a new engine or not.

[mystrodo]

This is not something that is limited Infiniti in the least. Almost all of the European luxury sedans with 8 cylinder and larger engines have some measure of oil consumption and blue smoke at startup. Cadillacs and MBs used huge amounts of oil and their crankcase filling requirements reflected as such. One of my coworkers spent many years working at a large Caddy dealer and said the Northstar motor would easily burn through 3qts of oil between services. [/url] )

Steve , I hate to tell you this, especially on my first and maybe only post but I think your caddie friend was only trying to make you feel better. You can check this yourself..the Cadillac CTS-V forums mention virtually nothing about oil consumption such as mentioned in this thread, I have not ever read of a motor needing to be replaced, I'm not saying this hasn't happened but it must be ultra rare..and your talking about a 550HP V-8 motor in the 09. Earlier years with the 400+hp CTS-V, I personally read more whining about the CTS-V Cologne smell then about oil issues ..they don't have the problem and zero blue smoke issues and they are quite fanatical car owners and for good reasons, you'd see huge threads if there was anything mechanical about that CTS engine or for that matter the car itself. http://www.cadillacforums.com/...2004/