Air in clutch line = Bad

[PapaBurgundy]

I got brand new master and slave cylinders and my clutch line looks fine or at least what I can see of it, but after about an hour of driving the pedal goes soft and I cant get it into gear. Bleed it and its fine for another hour or two. WTF?!?

[codyace]

You're probably fighting the OE clutch pedal dampner (that big goofy block thing under the car that the clutch lines go into)

You should look into getting a stainless steel clutch line, and elimating the block alltogether from your setup...you'll have much better clutch feal, and actually be able to bleed it properly (that dampner is a HUGE waste of time)...

[PapaBurgundy]

Sorry I forgot to mention the dampener was already bypassed.

[nightkid86]

Sounds like you have a small leak in the system. Check the master and slave for leaks. A little air is probably getting in over time.

[PapaBurgundy]

Thats what I thought but I cant find any leaks.

[01Blackerado]

Yeah thats air, are you using two people to bleed it?? You need two people to make it work properly idc what anyone says. Take the cap of the master where you put the fluid in. Push the clutch to the floor, and slowly let up on it til its fully out, if it doesnt come all the way out, do it by hand. You need to do this like 10 times, youll start to feel it get harder!! Once the 10th time happens, or once its getting alittle harder, have someone (Im sorry im assuming these clutches are hydraulic) go to the hydraulic pump, and get them ready to loosen the line from the pump....Push the clutch all the way to the floor as hard as you can!!!! While your foot is mashed to the ground, have the other person loosen the line and the fluid will spew out!!! BEFORE you let off the clutch make sure they tighten the line back up fully!!!!! Then rinse and repeat like 3 times!!!!

[PapaBurgundy]

I've done all that about two thousand eight hundred and twenty nine times, replaced the slave and master then did it twice that number of times, pedal feels great but it still wont go into gear and theres a slight burnt clutch smell but thats always been there, I'm gonna replace the clutch (it was pretty weak anyway) and go from there.

[Hype]

Same, same and same. I saw your reply to my thread. I wont be able to do this until the weekend so please let me know whats up. I'm afraid the fork slipped off the throwout bearing.

[marilyn]

This is True, you need two people for this. Vacuum pumps are worthless for bleeding a clutch

[trusts14]

Same, same and same. I saw your reply to my thread. I wont be able to do this until the weekend so please let me know whats up. I'm afraid the fork slipped off the throwout bearing.

hope not.

[RCG_Savage]

the fork pivot could have snapped as well.

[Hype]

I'm thinking thats more likely because when I replaced the slave, the fork did not feel loose or woobly.

[LayNLow240]

NO!! Bad advice!!! All you need to do is adjust the push rod for the master cyl.! Do this before you go through the hassle of changing the clutch out. Its easy as hell, and you didnt say you have done it yet. 50$ says this is where your problem lies.

[Hype]

Good tip LayNLow... I will definitely exhaust all my options before I drop the transmission... something I'm not looking forward to on the street with no other knowledgeable buddies to help (just labor to hold the transmission )

When someone is in the car pressing the pedal for me, I can see the slave work on the fork. Maybe its just not engaging far enough? How far is its travel?

[Hype]

Adjusted the rod to both extremes... no luck though. It was kinda funny having the pedal sit really high or really low though

50$ says this is where your problem lies.

i can has ur $50 plz?

I'm gonna try a new MC, that'll be the last call before I start pulling bolts off the driveshaft to get the transmission dropped this weekend

[PapaBurgundy]

I adjusted the crap out of it in both directions no luck, I have replaced the MC (twice) and can see my fork moving plenty and it feels pretty good and tight, at this point Im sick of messing with it and Im just going to drop the transmission unless someone has another idea of what it is, I assume Hype and I arent the only people on here who have had this happen.

[Hype]

with **** all over my hands as I type this, I can say replacing the master and slave, removing the dampener and making adjustments do not help. The transmission gets dropped tomorrow

On the bright side, I can fix the rear main seal though lol I am totally buying speedbleeders FTMFW
Modified by Hype at 8:41 PM 1/10/2008

[PapaBurgundy]

Let me know how that goes, I cant do it till next weekend, Im waiting for my exedy clutch and 10.5 lb flywheel because when life hands me lemons I make lemon flavored moonshine!!

[Hype]

hmm lightweight flywheel... I've heard good and bad. Besides being el cheapo, OEMs use heavier flywheels for superior inertia and also fuel economy at highway speeds. I'm gonna have to look into this. My KA has 207k on it, and I'm planning on doing a complete teardown and rebuild on the chassis, engine and transmission in about a year and a half if all goes well. Till then I just need not to have engine asplode lol At that point I might do a rebuild with mostly stock components, maybe some head work and 8.8 pistons for the eventual 8-10psi turbo build. But back to reality, I think I'm gonna order me a $99 exedy OEM clutch kit, but you have me thinking about the flywheel thing again.

Can anyone weigh in on their opinion of lightweight flywheels on a pretty stock KA?

[rb25xtc]

A few months ago I ran into the same problem. My clutch master cylinder was leaking fluid so I replaced both the master and slave.

Make sure to bench bleed both of them (master & slave) and extend the clutch pedal rod all the way out before you bleed the system so that you have the maximum pumping effect.

Also, since the slave cylinder sits at a slight angle down, an air pocket tends to form at the higher side of it. Get rid of it.

If all else fails, stop by a Nissan dealership and talk to some of the techs and see if they have any suggestions. It is a well known PITA for 240's.I pumped a gallon of fluid through mine before all the air was out of the line

[Hype]

Ok, call me a ***** but I cant get this job done in the street. Agh, it sucks. The street is so uneven that it takes me awhile to get the car safely lifted. If I had a better place to work maybe... sigh i miss my place (had a 2 car garage I rented w/ friends in college) or even my last apt, which had an underground decently lit parking garage.

Time to drop some cash on a damned shop, I was hoping to have shops never touch my car too. </wishful thinking>. I really wanted to see WTF happened inside there anyway haha

[emo_tactical9]

I'm glad i didn't have this much trouble with this. I changed my master cylinder out today, bent the lines to bypass the dampener, and bled it in like an hour.

[adrianfromthecastle]

ugh... I'm in the same boat at the moment.

I bled my clutch, and I'm not getting any pressure unless I depress my clutch pedal more than half way down.

Anyway, quick question:

How do I adjust my push rod? I took off the cotter pin that holds it to the pedal, but I can't get the pedal out of the way to feakin adjust the length. Am I supposed to take the whole clutch pedal out of the way (completely move it from under the dash)?

[Hype]

ugh... I'm in the same boat at the moment.

Anyway, quick question:

How do I adjust my push rod? I took off the cotter pin that holds it to the pedal, but I can't get the pedal out of the way to feakin adjust the length. Am I supposed to take the whole clutch pedal out of the way (completely move it from under the dash)?

pop the hood and take off the 2 12mm bolts that hold the MC to the firewall. I had to use a universal to get the one on the brake booster side, it was a bit of a pain. Carefully pull the MC out, being sure not to bend the hardlines. I was able to take it out and adjust the rod length several times without disconnecting the line.

I'm glad i didn't have this much trouble with this. I changed my master cylinder out today, bent the lines to bypass the dampener, and bled it in like an hour.

lucky.....

[emo_tactical9]

Whoa, you are going through all that just to adjust?!?!?The master cylinder is a pain the *** to get out.

Just get under the dash and loosen the lock nut. It's a 12mm and you'll need a visegrips to hold the shaft (huh huh, huh huh) while you loosen.Then turn it to adjust, tighten lock nut, you're done.

[Hype]

I guess. Like I said, I just threw on a universal with my 1/4" wrench to get to it. It seemed more obvious to me to take the MC out then to try spinning the rod under the dash :-P

[adrianfromthecastle]

Just get under the dash and loosen the lock nut. It's a 12mm and you'll need a visegrips to hold the shaft (huh huh, huh huh) while you loosen.Then turn it to adjust, tighten lock nut, you're done.

yeah, that's what I was thinking I had to do. What shaft are you talking about? The rod?

and yeah, taking the MC to me seemed like such a PITA

[emo_tactical9]

That was kinda vague, huh?Yeah, the rod that sticks off the master cylinder. It's easier to turn it if you disconnect it from the pedal, as it takes some tension off of it. It has threads where it connects to the pedal, so make sure you hold the fork that connects to the pedal in place. I had mine adjusted where it engaged way too high, so i adjusted it to where it is right in the middle. Takes a few minutes, literally.

[adrianfromthecastle]

^ thanks man.

[PapaBurgundy]

So Hype any word on how the shops doing on your car? Make sure you ask them what the problem was, it would be nice to know ahead of time what I'll be looking for when I do the clutch. Thanks