In case you are thinking about the greddy turbo kit

[farlsmagee6]

For anyone out there thinking about going turbo who has questions about the greddy kit... this is just a heads up. I went through pain and agony but it was worth it. Maybe your experience will be a little more hassle-free.

this is actually a response to an email I got asking about my greddy kit and whether or not I stuck it out with the emanage. Just so you know I made 298whp and 292tq @ 8psi on the greddy kit with a few upgrades and some tuning. enjoy... or dont I dont care.

***Yeah I stuck with the greddy emanage to tune with. This actually isn’t my favorite option, but for now it is the best way to manage the turbo that comes with the kit. The 20G is gigantic... its also internally gated at 8psi. the problem is that a turbo that size wants to make so much more boost than 8psi that it can lead to problems. I was actually really scared because I had read that the greddy kit was prone to boost creep... especially when using a larger exhaust. The kit straight from the factory is designed to work almost exclusively with a perfectly stock motor and that teeny tiny stock exhaust.

I have a 3" downpipe, 3" hiflow cat, and 3" megan exhaust. I am also running stock internals which makes me even more wary of problems to come. I actually took the emanage off the system and ran one dyno with the 20G and an SAFC just because I didnt like the emanage... it boosted past 17lbs and I let off immediately. You almost HAVE to tune with the emanage because its the only way to harness that huge turbo and keep it to its promised 8psi. The emanage, unlike most other systems, will pull so much timing per lb of boost that it will actually restrict the turbo from making any more than 8psi even though it wants to. It pulls something ridiculous like 8 or 10 degrees of timing for every lb of boost... which makes it almost a necessity unless you want to build and just have some ridiculous monster of a machine (which would also be nice). You could of course (and I almost did) slap a smaller turbo on there, granted its internally gated, and try the SAFC if you dont like the emanage - a small enough turbo gated properly would hold pretty steady at your desired boost level and the SAFC is an easy tuning device, but you might not have the capabilities down the road offered with the 20G. But the mitsubishi turbo is so big and moves so much more air than say a t3/t4 that even at such low boost it makes good whp numbers.

Also - greddy preprograms its own maps in the system but as you can imagine (for liability reasons I guess) the maps are so conservative that you might get 8 mpg driving on the system stock. It took two and a half tanks of gas for a two hour+ tune starting from the greddy maps... so you can imagine how rich they must have been. You also have to keep in mind that the maps are designed to work on a stock fuel pump, stock downpipe and stock exhaust. Another thing to consider is the BOV. If, like me, you just vent the BOV into the atmosphere, it will really screw with the way the system works... especially after venting and letting the motor wind down to idle - it almost always cuts out unless you blip the gas and give the system some more air. You can almost always count on an atmospheric BOV richening up your mix or causing idle problems...

I guess in short... if you go with the greddy kit be prepared to buy a bunch of extras if you want it done right. Definite necessities are:

Heavier clutchBOV (unless you want to buy another $1000 turbo in a year)Walbro fuel pumpColder spark plugsEmanage tuning cable/software (why this is sold separately I will never know)

You might seriously want to consider an intercooler, a better water pump, recirculation of the BOV, 3" down and back exhaust (or at the very least 2.5"), and possibly relocating the battery.

If you go with greddy, get in contact with a guy named Mitch in tech support at greddy because the emanage is password protected. If you tell him where you bought the emanage, the serial number and what kind of car you have, he cant give you the password but he will email you the maps they already have preprogrammed in the system. You can just erase the existing password protected maps which will let you into the system to tune then reload the maps he sends you. Then you will at least have a base point from which to start leaning it out.

This kit is definitely worth it if you have plans to make some huge numbers down the road... The only drawbacks are the huge turbo isnt very efficient unless you want to build the motor and bump the boost somewhere near 15psi - if I was greddy I would have used the 16G instead... that and the fact that the emanage blue is basically just one big band aid and it doesnt even come with the required software/hardware necessary to tune it. It also doesnt come with things like a BOV or a fuel pump... But all said and done I am very happy with the way it turned out.

Hope this helps you out in your future KA-T dreams... mine have finally come true.

[Bosrudorfer]

I made 298whp and 292tq @ 8psi

Sorry but somehow that extremely hard to believe...

As for the other stuff I agree, the Emanage is a pain in the *** to install and tune. I have one in the glove box still waiting to take over for the SAFC-II once the shop feels like trying to deal with it again.

[crzycav86]

Sorry but somehow that extremely hard to believe...

Why? It's realistic.

[farlsmagee6]

its a 20G... the thing is giant... it moves a lot more air than the smaller turbos and thus can make a lot more power than the smaller turbos given the same boost level

i wasnt expecting it, but it makes sense

[NateDogg]

Well done! Finally a Greddy kit putting out good numbers...

What is your total timing at peak torque and what octane did you use?

[hayaimoto]

I have had some experience with this kit in my past, I actually had no problems with the kit however did decide NOT TO USE THE GREDDY EMANAGE system, instread in favor of the VPRO system. That is probably why I was able to escape the headache. Good numbers though on your car CONGRATS.

[Bosrudorfer]

Yeah it makes sense now. I guess I'm used to my T3/T4E only making 200 at 10psi so when I read 275 at 8psi my mind says WTF. I forgot to count the size of the turbo.

[thekawaii]

I like greddy turbo kit except the blue emanage

[turbo2nr]

nice gains, makes me wana mess with a emanage on my setup...

[Chezedik]

What a bunch of haters. There is nothing at all hard about installing or tuning emanage. For my money, it was a significantly better 'band-aid' solution than the SAFC+BTM. Also, all you have to do do a little reading and you can do some really good stuff with it, I think this is a fine example.

BTW, farls can I see your maps? I would like to see what you have done.

[farlsmagee6]

let me see if i can get my guy to send them to me - the only tuning cable I could get was the dang serial port cable and no one I knew had a laptop with a serial port on it. We had to borrow the laptop and I dont have the maps on me - ill see what I can do.

and the only reason I call the emanage a band aid is because of all the adjustments it has to make to trick the stock ECU versus gettin a rom tune that actually is prepared for a turbo setup. but yeah... for the money it works very well and has some pretty nice features and capabilities

[WDRacing]

I was reading the Ultimate Article the other night, its expensive for a piggy back, but its definitly THE best piggy back.

WD

[Chezedik]

Agreed, a ROM tune would be better but emanage isn't bad. Ultimate is even better because it is more dynamic (it can use more inputs). I would definately like to see this tune, I have one loaded, but I would like to compare. Also, if there are any tricks in there, I would like to see how they work.

[GEO]

thats the 20g mitsubishi turbo with internal wastegate right? If I remember correctly, that turbo is smaller then the t3/t4.

[daconkiftador]

VERY nice numbers, I was always curious at the greddy ka kit, but it looks like its doing good!

Yeah it makes sense now. I guess I'm used to my T3/T4E only making 200 at 10psi so when I read 275 at 8psi my mind says WTF. I forgot to count the size of the turbo.

your T3/T4 at 10psi only makes 200?

[ghx407]

Congratulations, awesome numbers!!

[ZUL8R]

Congratulations, awesome numbers!!

I just bought a 98 240SX from NC . The car is still on the way. I have the KA motor with the Greddy 20G turbo as well . The motor was built by Tophat performance. The guy i bought the car from send me a dynosheet. The car put down 374whp at 17 psi. Well, he has the SAFC in the car now and bought the Ultimate and never got to install it. How much for installation and how many hours for tune?? thanks guys

[Chezedik]

Ultimate is even easier to tune!!! It has a built in autotune feature in the software. Enter in the parameters, run autotune, and then fine tune it.

Installation will take longer than Blue, but blue only took me about 1.5hrs to install. So what 3hrs, if you don't want it, then maybe I will buy it.

[farlsmagee6]

youve got the right turbo in mind but the turbine is much bigger than a t3/t4

[Chezedik]

Yes, but isn't the compressor smaller? Also, any word on the tune?

[Craving4Boost]

Ultimate is even easier to tune!!! It has a built in autotune feature in the software. Enter in the parameters, run autotune, and then fine tune it.

Installation will take longer than Blue, but blue only took me about 1.5hrs to install. So what 3hrs, if you don't want it, then maybe I will buy it.

auto tune huh....how does it work and how consistent is it.

[Chezedik]

They had a crude version of it available for blue with the AlphaTools. I have a copy if anyone is interested.

Anyway, I guess you just feed it certain information and it does the rest, you would have to download the Ultimate Support Tool Software from mohdparts.com to find out for sure. I have heard that it has gotten to be much better than the AlphaTools version.

[farlsmagee6]

yeah the compressor is smaller, but the exhaust side where the turbine turns is where the power is made -

i dont want to get the physics wrong, but it seems that the exhaust gas can create more torque on the larger (and longer) blades of the bigger exhaust turbine... I could possibly figure out the mathematics of it but just the concept of a simple lever will do - the longer the lever, the more torque you can put on the focal point with the same amount of force. thus longer turbine blades will create more torque on the shaft. More torque = more power.

so even though the compressor is smaller in the 20G, the larger exhaust turbine creates more torque and more compressor power, thus moving more air at the same boost level than the t3/t4

does that make sense? or is my logic off somewhere....

** oh also i wont be able to get the maps until after christmas... the guy is out of town.

[Chezedik]

Here is where that logic is flawed:

You are not turning the wheels with the turbine shaft, and so the amount of torque there is rather inconsequential. A larger turbine only means it will have more flow, and so you will have less backpressure. This can help you make a little more power, but is not the only reason. The compressor size is VERY important, because it is directly related to how much air the turbo can move at a given level of boost. So, a smaller compressor will move less air mass than a larger one. The air is what the engine is combining with fuel to make combustion take place. Therefore, More Air=More power.

I look foward to seeing this tune, it must be dynamite.

[WDRacing]

Wow....a clearly illustrated and well put reply Cheze. I'm impressed...lol.

[Chezedik]

Sometimes me think so good.

[Florida240sx]

Sometimes me think so good.

[GEO]

ummm... http://www.turbomagazine.com/f...sting/

"the GReddy turbo kit produced 219.5 hp and 250.6 lb-ft of torque at 0.55 kg of boost pressure (7.8 psi). "

Unless you got your timing advanced to all hell..

[Chezedik]

Is your gauge sampling at the same spot as your WG?

[farlsmagee6]

that kit was used on a completely stock motor, exhaust, no intercooler, etc.

its nowhere close to the setup I am running.