Dry Sump Oil setup on Rb25DET?

[Gavster]

Hello all! Im kind of a lurker on here, but I figured I may as well see what everyone's take is on this subject. I am currently building a full on track car...its an s14 and im using an RB. For better weight distribution and using a vmount radiator/IC setup, I have relocated the engine roughly 3.5 inches backwards and intend to lower the engine roughly 1.5 inches. The only real issue I have faced thus far in my endeavors is the oil pan! It wont clear the subframe anymore with the motor placed so far rearward...so Im doing the responsible thing, and going dry sump...got to be the best solution to my fitment issue that i have come up with. I intend to make my own pan, bracketry etc for this setup, but I was curious if anyone has any ideas on how close an rb25 oil sys is to that of the 26? If any of the 26 setups might be adaptable to the 25. If not, ill get my own setup going, but I thought id check. If anyone has any pictures of any rb2x setups, Id love to see! Here is my rig for anyone who has their curiosity getting to them



And my work on the subframe, w00t!!

[Joe]

awesome! there arent enough dedicated RB track cars out there!!

anyway the problem with using the RB26 pan is the front drive setup is integrated into the pan.

*image taken from driftfactory.com

anyway i wish you the best of luck doing a dry sump setup. those are very costly!

[krayton]

go dry sump for sure.

forgot who did it. came out to around 2k i think?

but still, i think its the best way to go. especially since RBs have the notorious oil problems. youll nail a couple birds with one stone with that setup

good luck with the setup, looks awesome.

ive always wanted to do that. saw teins s15 w/rb26 which i thought was total hotness.

[Yellow4g63]

Try and search RBtally I think he did it on his RB.

[sparksta]

i'm pretty sure tally just used an external pump. I plan on doing dry sump on mine and the only real RB specific info i've come accross was on skylinesdownunder and even there it was slim pickings since alot of the pictures had been taken down. your car is looking good also.

[sparksta]

http://forums.racebread.com/index.php?topic=1224.0

has a picture of his pump mounted

[DanCouga]

I am considering this option as well for my RB30/26. I haven't gotten around to pricing it yet, but I am probably going to talk to Dailey Engineering or ARE. If you go this route, let me know for sure.

[Gavster]

Kamin, thanks for the little comparison....i wasnt exactly looking for rb26 stock parts, but rather the compatability of an rb26 dry sump setup to the 25....its probably more cost effective to just design my own. I think I can probably get it done for 1300 or so since i make all of my own stuff....we will see though, that would be a smokin price for a dry sump setup! Ill look on skylinesdownunder too! Thanks for the suggestions and praise Keep the ideas flowin'! I also had one sort of conceptual question as to how to integrate the setup maybe someone can answer, here it goes:

So, i know i will have a tiny shallow pan bolted to the bottom of the motor with a scavenge port on it, and which has a line to the pump, pulling oil from the pan. Then out of the pump is the positive pressure side. Here is where my question is....where would i hook this up? I know i will get rid of the stock pick up and somehow disable the stock pump...so i assume i need to access the oil galley coming from the stock pump somehow with the new pump...is this correct? Any ideas on how to accomplish this feat? Thanks guys! This has been helpful thus far!!

[DanCouga]

Here is a diagram of a dry sump setup. I hope this helps.

[sparksta]

my suggestion is that you gut the stock pump and weld on a fitting so that you can use that to feed the oil into the system. you'll have to block the hole that the oil pickup uses so that oil wont run into the pan. I think this would be the cleaniest setup so you wont have to have lines running from one side of the engine to the other. That is if you make a bracket for your pump and place it where the AC bracket is supposed to be.

[74260zt]

There is a "freeze plug" on the right side of the pump. There is your access to the oil galley. Punch out the freeze plug, weld on a -10 or -12 fitting, and your got a place to pump the oil thru the motor....

I went with a custom pan/ external p/u. My Jun pump had hex head plugs on it instead of the freeze plugs, so I just removed the right hand side plug, put a 1/2 x -12 fitting on the pump, then had a -12 oil screen fitting installed omto my pan and that was that...

Here are some pics of a dry sump on a RB that I saved from a guy on Skylines Down Under, and some pics of my pan and oil pump mod. http://www.putfile.com/rb26pow...31533

[DanCouga]

This is the only picture I could find. It doesn't have a lot of pan detail, but it is still some dang sexy engine p0rn.

[Gavster]

wow...great info guys, thanks for your great responses!! I will definately check that freeze plug out 74260zt! If i weld a fitting there, and disable the pump and block the pickup, it should be sound! One other question....how deep should the pan be? I know it can be very shallow...im guessing perhaps .75 to 1 inch deep? Also, im unsure of what "stage" to get. Is it necessary to scavenge from other places than the oil pan? Please enlighten me!! THanks again for everything so far guys!

[s14 2510's]

If one just gutted the stock pump or made a block off plate for were the pump use to be. Could you get a remote oil adapter and plum the pressure line in the engine were the oil filter use to be. If your going dry sump your going to get a remote micron filter for the oil coming into the engine anyhow. Most times your going to have a screen filter to filter out mettal on the scavange side too before oil re enters the pump. Im going to have a oil cooler mounted were my grill use to be. Now for a question. If your running your pressure line in the oil pump. I have been asked by people at shops if rb26's have a pressure relief ball for if the oil pressure gets too high. I know some nissans have them. Were are they located? I was planning on running dry sump on my 26 for some time now. but my cars gong to be a time attack\race car. I have a s13 with rb20 for drifting and driving on streets when i get a itch. Would a dry sump be practical for street driving. I guess with what i have into my 26 Im real if'y on going dry sump because i have never seen it done on a rb in person. But its almost a must with what i have planned for the car. I just got my engine balanced with the ati dampner with the sump cog on it so theres no turning back now. I opted to just leave the crank stock and not add the extended oil pump drive.What type of dry sump pumps do people with actual experiance recomend. Im going to pick up my block here soon and the drysump is the next thing on my list to work on. I was thinking of going with a 4 or 5 stage pump. Scavange from head and 3 or 2 from the pan. The oil pan should be easy to make just trace the old pan ring and make a new one from scratch with a windage screen welded or bolted in. I have been thinking about dry sump for a year but its never discussed in detail. Who else can chime in and tell us something usefull.

[RBTALLY]

a few pics



return side



suction side you can see where I pulled oil from



bigger filter

[Shocker]

Thats an awesome setup.. but id hate to see the aftermath if that belt ever broke or slipped off........ unless the stock pump still functions with it.

[sparksta]

i'm sure you could make a guard for that to ensure that the belt doesnt slip off. also, think about what would happen if your timing belt broke. probably almost equally disastrous results.

[RBTALLY]

the crank pully has a guard on it, but if setup correctly there should be no problems.. and the stock oil pump is gone.

[Gavster]

RBTally, i sent you an email a few days ago before you posted, haha thanks for coming into this thread. How much did the ATI damper run....is it a one off or would i be able to get one? Did you have to do anything with the damper other than just swap your oem crank pulley out for that?

[s14 2510's]

Call ATI they can make one for you. I had them make one for my rb26. Its a direct replacement for the stock dampner. I had my lower end balanced and blueprinted when I installed mine. But I instaled a clutch and all new internals at same time.

[RBTALLY]

call JC Jr. at ATI he is the one to talk to I think it was aroung 700.00 or so...I had all but one of the pullys removed for clearenc and becose I did not need them... It is a direct fit on the crank, but I still had to move the radiator forward about 2"s

[DanCouga]

I am currently getting information from Dailey Engineering on a custom setup. I will let everyone know how this pans out. Get it? "Pans out"?

[s14 2510's]

What are good brands of dry sump pumps? Im thinking of a 5 stage pump. I plan on 3 sumps in pan and one in back of the head.

[sparksta]

barnes, weaver, peterson and moroso are the ones i see pop up most often.

[Gavster]

Thanks for all the awesome responses guys! So i got the motor all mounted up on my new mounts and i have just enough room for the paper-thin dry sump pan~w000!! Now, to pick the schematics of the system. Do you guys think a 3 stage system will work ok? One pressure and 2 scavenge from the pan? Let me know of any considerations i should take!

[sparksta]

i'd scavenge the head or atleast have an external drain from the head to the pan

[Gavster]

What would the reason be? In stock form, oil drains from the head back to the pan...and it would be scavenged there so why modify the head to scavenge too?

[Sil240]

I believe the reason to scavange the head is beacause at high rpm the oil cant drain fast enough from the head and gets stuck up there. Leaving not enough oil in the pan.That's why Tomei and Jun have oil restrictors .

Check out their site

[s14 2510's]

but in a dry sump there is never oil in the pan and there is a suction on the lower end due to the sumps. It would be wise to have a sump on the head.

[Carl H]

i think it would be wise to run an external drain from the head to the pan rather than a suction pickup to avoid as much air intake as possible.