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 How to do Twins right the first time!!!
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GOING DEEP



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21 posts
350Z Roadster Twin Turbo
albuquerque nm
11-17-2004

  How to do Twins right the first time!!!


How to do Twins right the first time!!!

Okay, first of all I am talking about Twin Turbos, not doing "twins". There's other websites for that

Now, some background...as many of us Z owners striving to seek more and more power out of our stock engine, I decided to buy a GReddy TT kit. Had it professionally installed and about a month later...catatrophic engine damage. I broke connecting rod #2 and subsequently it put two windows in my block. So, I decided do it right and do a forged internal build up and I am only days away from finally have it done. But this thread is not about MY build up, its about YOUR build up. I have put together a good plan on how to go about an engine build up AND forced induction to your Z.

First, the price of admission. For those of you that would like to go Venture in the land of boost, the price of admission is a steep one....but well worth the cost!!!

If I had to do it all over....to minimize the time your Z is in the shop and to minimize the TOTAL labor costs and not risking blowing an engine...

I would buy the following in this order...

Buy the following in this order...

1. A short block, this is basically just an engine w/o heads and a crank. See item 1. Since the block is brand new, you don't have to worry about buying a used short block and how it became a used short block. Believe or not, the small block will cost only about 1300. I say only, because this will become your build up engine. From here, you can sleeve it with AEBS only if you plan to exceed 600rwhp. Once you're reaching these power levels, you are in uncharted terroritory that less than a handful have ventured into. This of course will be inherently risky to venture where no one else has any experience.

2. Next, you buy a crankshaft. item 27. This will cost you about 550. Now, that you have a block and crank, you can get the bearing codes for the rods and mains and...

3. Buy the 12 rod bearings item 25 (there sold in halves) and order the 4 main bearings. This will only set you back about 200. You got off easy in this step. But there's more...

4. Now, pistons and rods. You shouldn't spend more than 2k here if you shop around. My suggestion would be to stay less than 9.5:1 compression ratio. In the simplest terms here...the lower the compression ratio, the higher psi you can run. The trade off, there would be a little more of a delay in reaching your peak hp in your power band. But, you will be less likely to run into detonation issues. Personally, I wanted 9:1, but ended up with 8.6:1 due to supply issues of pistons.

5. Okay, now you have a short block, crank, rods, bearings, and pistons. But a couple more internal parts to buy, ARP head studs and main studs. These should run you about 450 for the studs. There are 16 head studs and 16 main studs.

Now, you have reached a point where you can ship these parts to a reputable builder and they can build your engine. Make sure this shop has built one before and their machine shop has worked on a VQ-35DE. THIS IS CRUICIAL.
Now they can double check the clearances of your bearings and you have a "built" bottom end engine. One more thing to possibly consider in this step is to get a thermo coat on your pistons and bearings. There is debate on the longevity of the coat, but it doesn't cost too much though. Whats another few hundred bucks.

6. Okay, now this is the step, not step 1, is when you buy your favorite TT or single Turbo or Super charger that you have been having dirty fantasies about when no one is looking. Depending on the brand, each will have something or another you must buy separately. If you've made it this far, you would have researched the shortcomings of your particuler kit. At this point you should consider thermo coating your turbo exhaust manifolds and exhaust turbine. This will allow you to keep engine temps down and keep the hot gases inside hot.

7. Now, you are in a really good position to start your build. But, a few more things to buy...of course. There's always something else to buy! But, the good news is that the remainder of the stuff is usually kept in stock.

NGk plugs...75
boost controller...450
Gauges....300-1200 (depending on number and type, + install)
Clutch....1k-2k (depending on brand, and you might as well do it while the engine is out)
Fuel sys upgrade...1k (or it you get APS, its in the price tag already)
Larger fuel injectors...500
Thermal coating.....300 This could be on pistons, bearings, or turbo "hot" parts

8. Once you get back your "built" engine, which would probably take 6-8 weeks if you're lucky. You can now drop off your Z at a good and reputable shop, and they can swap out the engines and install your TT at the same time. MAKE SURE YOU GET A GOOD ESTIMATE OF ALL COSTS INVOLVED AND GET IT IN WRITING ALONG WITH A COMPLETION DATE!!! Okay, enough with the yelling, lets continue. From here, this should take less than a month. So, your Z sat in a shop for less than a month and you have a built engine with TT. AND you were able to minimize downtime, costs, and you even spread out the costs of buying parts and the TT.

9. What do you do with your original short block? No, it does not become a new table in your nook by your kitchen!!! You will be able to sell it to the next guy. And he can still follow the plan I just laid out.

10. So, you read this part and now you are thinking I'm nuts or maybe the price of admission is very high. Well, you're right on both accounts. No, but seriously, this is the best way to go about it especially if....
a. You don't want to have your Z in a shop for 2-3 MONTHS
b. Your Z is a daily driver
c. Dont think you can take a short cut and just do TTs on stock internals. Come on now, that engine puts down 235rwhp and not designed to handle 350+rwhp!
d. You can't wait to read my kill stories again. Sorry, got off topic.

Now for the short list, yes it does exists. If you don't want to listen to the advice above, at least buy these at the bare minimum:

Connecting rods
Pistons
ARP Main studs/Head studs
Rod+Main, Bearings
Overhaul Gasket Kit
Rear Main Oil Seal
NGK one step colder plugs
Boost gauge
Oil Press gauge
EGT Gauge
AFR gauge
Clutch Upgraded
And the following depending on boost levels:
AAM Fuel Return System
Bigger fuel injectors

Okay, you survived reading my post. I hope I have taught you a couple of things along the way and as always I more than welcome questions, comments, corrections, and money. J/K. We are all here to learn about those wonderful little money pits we call "Our Zs".



04 350Z CS Touring Roadster 6MT

My Sponsor: Nonstopmotorsports...Click here

Greddy TT, Forged Internals Project Pics and lots more... Click here

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely and in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy sh1t...what a ride!"

PalmerWMD



Offline

16957 posts
2004 350Z
Aberdeen Proving Ground Maryland
4-29-2002

 « 


Awesome write-up!
Deserves a Sticky!

Fred..



"It's not that Life wont give you anything, It's all about the way you ask"


GOING DEEP



Offline

21 posts
350Z Roadster Twin Turbo
albuquerque nm
11-17-2004

 « Re: (PalmerWMD)


Thanks, its tough to make a write up where you want to include details, but yet not too many details to make it general for FI.
hatebobbarker



Offline

865 posts
350z, 240sx(for sale)
Riverside California
10-16-2003

 « 


im just buying the PE kit because no one has blown on it yet.



"It's gonna be blood for blood and by the gallons. It's the old days. The bad days. The all-or-nothings days. They're back."- Marv

NIZMO11

Offline

18 posts
350Z
Westbury NY
6-25-2005

 « Re: (hatebobbarker)


We have installed plenty of the Power Enterprise turbo kits for the 350, and have had great success with them. We even sell them installed on cars in our showroom to be sold through the dealership (w/warranty).The boost levels are very safe and spiking is kept to a minimum. I very strongly suggest sleaving your block if you are looking for a reliable engine in the 400+ hp range. You do not absolutely have to have them at 400 but we all know that when you reach that point it never seems like enough. Cooling also becomes a problem (cavitation etc. ), and can ruin a perfectly good engine, so another common add on is the Nismo high pressure coolent cap and the Nismo thermostat which opens much sooner. CP pistons and Carillo rods are also a commen favorite with our customers and their success rate with cometic head gaskets makes all the difference. If anyone in the NYC/Long Island area wants to come down and get a better look at our operation, please call me using my number below.

- Nick Anastasi.
Performance Motorsport, NY
516-942-2996


Attachment: Copy_of_Picture_499.jpg (279839 bytes, downloaded 9308 times)




PalmerWMD



Offline

16957 posts
2004 350Z
Aberdeen Proving Ground Maryland
4-29-2002

 « 


Nick,
thats good stuff feel free to stop by some more..

Fred..

ZeeOne

Offline

16 posts
350Z
Stamford CT
7-28-2005

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (GOING DEEP)


Hey ernie,

That was a well thought out write-up. Looks like I am out of commission for a bit. My zee is presently sitting at Performance Motorsports waiting to be revived.

It could be touch and go, to have a blower, with stock internals and tracking.

Looking forward to see you and Paul up at Pocono raceway August 6

G

neo76201

Offline

9 posts

Spanish Fork Utah
5-18-2005

 « 


go here http://www.speedforceracing.co...r.php
and you can get a short block already built with arias pistons with your choice of compression and pauter rods for $3900 and they will do head work too.
Foxxy

Offline

3 posts

Auckland
1-22-2007

 « 


Good effort!

fukjdm



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68 posts
TK350z
buena park ca
11-28-2005

 « 


nice
TRBOMOFO



Offline

769 posts
91 nissan S13.5 redtop
Morgantown WV
10-3-2006

 « 


very nice write up i want to go buy a 350 now




MY MODDED XBOX 360 link

TenTill4Z



Offline

43 posts
05 Nissan 350z
Scottsdale Az
3-24-2006

 « Re: (TRBOMOFO)


Quote, originally posted by TRBOMOFO »
very nice write up i want to go buy a 350 now

Nah stick with your strawberry face. Sil-Fifteen Eighty FTW.




NewNismo

Offline

12 posts

Fort Luaderdale FL
6-19-2007

 « Re: (TenTill4Z)


Awsome write up!
Pycakmark

Offline

12 posts
05 altima 2.5s
sacto ca
7-9-2007

 « Re: (NewNismo)


i wonder how to do quad turbos and 6, 8 turbos.
coupe240sxguy



Offline

294 posts
'89 240sx/ '01 mazda 626
ft. worth tx
3-28-2007

 « Re: (Pycakmark)


Quote, originally posted by Pycakmark »
i wonder how to do quad turbos and 6, 8 turbos.

no point... to much lag. good thought though



my aim= coupe240sxguy

If n e one needs help,
1989-1998 240sx TUTORIALS,
FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL,
FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL 2,
89 240sx FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL,
Old FAQ,
Pics of Parts
MI 35th



Offline

12 posts
2005 350Z 35th anniv. & S-12 Silvia
Cincinnati OH
4-4-2007

 « 


Ive read this before! LOL, this is the same one as in my350z. going deep you two timing us. LOL.



Single Turbo 350Z Silverstone 35th Anniversary

LTB: S13 Hatch 5spd, that runs with minimal rust. Please email me DonMJames@gmail.com

chea!!

Offline

3 posts
350z
phoenix arizona
9-3-2007

 « Re: (neo76201)


do you know any one who bought this bottom and if its a good deal
thanks
FAIRLY Z

Offline

13 posts
2006 Nissan 350Z Enthusiast
East Setauket NY
9-17-2007

 « Re: (chea!!)


Awesome! I'll definitely use this to my advantage when I do my TT setup.
modified350z

Online

55 posts
Nissan 350Z
NEW YORK NY
10-13-2007

 « Re: (FAIRLY Z)


Well first off your are now going in the wright direction. I did everything internally I could before adding twins and also have a Zex 2 stage nitrous kit on my car with a 200 shot nozzle. I will give you the link to my personal site that not only gives pics, but also all the stuff I had to do to get 680hp out of my Z and still be street legal. I hope it helps to let you know that you can run that much power and also add a little juice to it also. If you like it , Z. http://www.webspawner.com/users/drewh24/

Modified by modified350z at 11:49 PM 10/17/2007



Pics and Modifications on my Z. Body kit, rims, audio/video, custom paint, etc. http://www.webspawner.com/users/drewh24/
tiger



Offline

1248 posts
BarefootRacer!
Hville tn
5-3-2005

 « Re: (modified350z)


im curious and want to know where I can find an FSM for the VQ35de, I think it would be an awesome project to do later in life when I finally get a house and garage.







ZUL8ERmark



Offline

62 posts
2006.5 350z
Blythewood sc
7-26-2007

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (GOING DEEP)


great wright up just one ? how did you make the two windows in your block turned the boost over 8psi or somthing or it just couldnt take it wonderin why because all the kits i have read say its fine with a stock block as long as you run low boost now yes im am building but i was just going to get the kit and start there and then lader on down the road build i no laber cost will be more but notlooking at that right now but really great wright up cant wait for my build now



ING's 06.5 in some fire ........ ZEYAL8R

djnimo05

Offline

9 posts

upland ca
12-10-2007

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (GOING DEEP)


Niiice write up!!!

Goodluck to anyone doing this for the first time :-)

asr10 user

Offline

4 posts

so cal
12-19-2007

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (GOING DEEP)


Great write up. I needed someting like this
04G356MT



Offline

307 posts
04 G35 6MT
Salisbury MD
3-19-2007

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (asr10 user)


or you can take a mechanics way of doing it lol, just buy the TT kit install it get it tuned and dont push her TOO hard while you build up a full out motor and then put it in... thats if you got the time... and tools...



~ Drifters do it sideways ~

04 G35 Coupe 6MT ~ Z-Tube ~ Pop Charger ~ 5/16 Motordyne Spacer ~ B&M Short Shifter ~ Black NISMO Shifter ~ Skyline Emblem ~ DIY Black Headlights ~ TIEN S-tech Springs ~ and a heavy right foot.

twotonezed

Offline

10 posts

Moorhead MN
1-1-2008

 « Re: (Pycakmark)


Where are you going to put all of the piping?
Coinage

Offline

15 posts
2002 Maxima SE 6sp
Hummelstown PA
8-1-2007

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (GOING DEEP)


very nice man
nfp240



Offline

44 posts
1993 nissan 240sx
perry hall md
7-27-2007

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (GOING DEEP)


awsome.
300zxgod

Offline

12 posts
300zx and 350z
denver co
2-14-2008

 « 


im thinking about ps tt kit?
is it worth the money?
moforose3

Offline

9 posts

Mechanicsburg pa
8-30-2007

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (GOING DEEP)


Quote, originally posted by GOING DEEP »
How to do Twins right the first time!!!

Okay, first of all I am talking about Twin Turbos, not doing "twins". There's other websites for that

Now, some background...as many of us Z owners striving to seek more and more power out of our stock engine, I decided to buy a GReddy TT kit. Had it professionally installed and about a month later...catatrophic engine damage. I broke connecting rod #2 and subsequently it put two windows in my block. So, I decided do it right and do a forged internal build up and I am only days away from finally have it done. But this thread is not about MY build up, its about YOUR build up. I have put together a good plan on how to go about an engine build up AND forced induction to your Z.

First, the price of admission. For those of you that would like to go Venture in the land of boost, the price of admission is a steep one....but well worth the cost!!!

If I had to do it all over....to minimize the time your Z is in the shop and to minimize the TOTAL labor costs and not risking blowing an engine...

I would buy the following in this order...

Buy the following in this order...

1. A short block, this is basically just an engine w/o heads and a crank. See item 1. Since the block is brand new, you don't have to worry about buying a used short block and how it became a used short block. Believe or not, the small block will cost only about 1300. I say only, because this will become your build up engine. From here, you can sleeve it with AEBS only if you plan to exceed 600rwhp. Once you're reaching these power levels, you are in uncharted terroritory that less than a handful have ventured into. This of course will be inherently risky to venture where no one else has any experience.

2. Next, you buy a crankshaft. item 27. This will cost you about 550. Now, that you have a block and crank, you can get the bearing codes for the rods and mains and...

3. Buy the 12 rod bearings item 25 (there sold in halves) and order the 4 main bearings. This will only set you back about 200. You got off easy in this step. But there's more...

4. Now, pistons and rods. You shouldn't spend more than 2k here if you shop around. My suggestion would be to stay less than 9.5:1 compression ratio. In the simplest terms here...the lower the compression ratio, the higher psi you can run. The trade off, there would be a little more of a delay in reaching your peak hp in your power band. But, you will be less likely to run into detonation issues. Personally, I wanted 9:1, but ended up with 8.6:1 due to supply issues of pistons.

5. Okay, now you have a short block, crank, rods, bearings, and pistons. But a couple more internal parts to buy, ARP head studs and main studs. These should run you about 450 for the studs. There are 16 head studs and 16 main studs.

Now, you have reached a point where you can ship these parts to a reputable builder and they can build your engine. Make sure this shop has built one before and their machine shop has worked on a VQ-35DE. THIS IS CRUICIAL.
Now they can double check the clearances of your bearings and you have a "built" bottom end engine. One more thing to possibly consider in this step is to get a thermo coat on your pistons and bearings. There is debate on the longevity of the coat, but it doesn't cost too much though. Whats another few hundred bucks.

6. Okay, now this is the step, not step 1, is when you buy your favorite TT or single Turbo or Super charger that you have been having dirty fantasies about when no one is looking. Depending on the brand, each will have something or another you must buy separately. If you've made it this far, you would have researched the shortcomings of your particuler kit. At this point you should consider thermo coating your turbo exhaust manifolds and exhaust turbine. This will allow you to keep engine temps down and keep the hot gases inside hot.

7. Now, you are in a really good position to start your build. But, a few more things to buy...of course. There's always something else to buy! But, the good news is that the remainder of the stuff is usually kept in stock.

NGk plugs...75
boost controller...450
Gauges....300-1200 (depending on number and type, + install)
Clutch....1k-2k (depending on brand, and you might as well do it while the engine is out)
Fuel sys upgrade...1k (or it you get APS, its in the price tag already)
Larger fuel injectors...500
Thermal coating.....300 This could be on pistons, bearings, or turbo "hot" parts

8. Once you get back your "built" engine, which would probably take 6-8 weeks if you're lucky. You can now drop off your Z at a good and reputable shop, and they can swap out the engines and install your TT at the same time. MAKE SURE YOU GET A GOOD ESTIMATE OF ALL COSTS INVOLVED AND GET IT IN WRITING ALONG WITH A COMPLETION DATE!!! Okay, enough with the yelling, lets continue. From here, this should take less than a month. So, your Z sat in a shop for less than a month and you have a built engine with TT. AND you were able to minimize downtime, costs, and you even spread out the costs of buying parts and the TT.

9. What do you do with your original short block? No, it does not become a new table in your nook by your kitchen!!! You will be able to sell it to the next guy. And he can still follow the plan I just laid out.

10. So, you read this part and now you are thinking I'm nuts or maybe the price of admission is very high. Well, you're right on both accounts. No, but seriously, this is the best way to go about it especially if....
a. You don't want to have your Z in a shop for 2-3 MONTHS
b. Your Z is a daily driver
c. Dont think you can take a short cut and just do TTs on stock internals. Come on now, that engine puts down 235rwhp and not designed to handle 350+rwhp!
d. You can't wait to read my kill stories again. Sorry, got off topic.

Now for the short list, yes it does exists. If you don't want to listen to the advice above, at least buy these at the bare minimum:

Connecting rods
Pistons
ARP Main studs/Head studs
Rod+Main, Bearings
Overhaul Gasket Kit
Rear Main Oil Seal
NGK one step colder plugs
Boost gauge
Oil Press gauge
EGT Gauge
AFR gauge
Clutch Upgraded
And the following depending on boost levels:
AAM Fuel Return System
Bigger fuel injectors

Okay, you survived reading my post. I hope I have taught you a couple of things along the way and as always I more than welcome questions, comments, corrections, and money. J/K. We are all here to learn about those wonderful little money pits we call "Our Zs".

Nice write up, thanks!

shiftlock 350z

Offline

15 posts
2004 Nissan 350z
Casa Grande AZ
4-6-2008

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (moforose3)


great write up, now i just need to win the lottery so i can follow these instructions
Dats_Wussup

Offline

4 posts
350z & g35
miami fl
5-2-2008

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (GOING DEEP)


Nice tut!!.. Should do it to mines
Dasoupdude



Offline

1234 posts
TIE FIGHTER
3-17-2008

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (GOING DEEP)


informative



You didn't eat your broccoli. and you didn't get in line with all the other kids. you never really cared about where you sat at the lunch table or which clique you were in then or what club you are in now you knew that the best way to live was by doing what you wanted not just what you were told. soon everyone else began to notice. you wanted to go your own way. and you did.


Sorry Soup, it's too big and too political. -beancooker-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhpwlJv_aAo

Kalypso123
Street Sleeper



Offline

1961 posts
redtop 90 coupe
Flushing, Queens NY
7-24-2007

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (Dasoupdude)


interesting indeed





thomasz

Offline

10 posts

Walnut CA
4-24-2008

 « Re: How to do Twins right the first time!!! (Kalypso123)


I will contact with your company to know about "Twins".
 

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