To all you ARP head stud users!

Post by **boost_boy** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:54 pm

I've been seeing a flux of people using the cometic gasket with leaking results. I've been banging my head trying to figure out you guys' problems with metal headgaskets and I've made the hypothesis, that using the ARP washers is one of the main causes of your leaks. You need to use your stock CA or KA head washers as they are seated and cupped for the CA's head. It could very well be you're using the wrong torque sequence with the wrong final torque. I recommend a max torque of 86psi using the nissan tightening order and not the tightening sequence. So that means no loosening re-tightening to a specified torque, re-loosening and tightening again.

You guys don't have to follow my lead as it is your engine, not mine. I am merely trying to help stop some of the common issues that I sit and read about and I know my method will correct most you guys' problems. Don't probe my mind as to why, I just know this is your fix.

Dee

Post by **c-rad** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:23 pm

So check this out-- I talked to an ARP tech and this is what he had to say:

The proper torqueing must be done as follows:

Torque in THREE stages: 30 ft-lbs, then 55 ft-lbs, then 80 ft-lbs (using their moly grease). loosen and retorque THREE MORE times!heat cycle the studs (start and run to NOT). let the engine cool down thoroughlycheck torque on studs and tighten as necessary

That seems outrageous, but my friend with a DSM was told the exact same thing (except his torque ratings were different obviously).

Post by **sideways danny** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:30 pm

I don't see the big deal with ARB studs, why bother when MASSIVE power has been proven on standard bolts? the only metal head gasket I've ever seen blow in use rather than from mis-assembly (pro built SR20DET) was an ARP equipt engine. Standard bolts and an ACL race series head gasket going in my engine this week

Post by **float_6969** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:51 pm

Stock HG, single tightening stage, supplied ARP washers. Not one single problem as of yet.

Post by **originalsin** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:17 pm

sideways danny wrote:I don't see the big deal with ARB studs, why bother when MASSIVE power has been proven on standard bolts? the only metal head gasket I've ever seen blow in use rather than from mis-assembly (pro built SR20DET) was an ARP equipt engine. Standard bolts and an ACL race series head gasket going in my engine this week

the studs can be reused, i just ordered them, and will be using a felpro hg copper sprayed

Post by **sideways danny** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:46 pm

originalsin wrote:

the studs can be reused, i just ordered them, and will be using a felpro hg copper sprayed

So can the standard bolts, they are NOT stretch bolts, the FSM does not specify they need replacing. I've never had a single issue with standard bolts

Post by **r34 gtr** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:11 am

dee, ive done exactly what you said and it still leaked. i eventually used both sets of washers because after measuring the studs, it seemed like on 1 or 2 i was just tightening the nuts against the shoulder on the stud, instead of the head. even though the head/block surface is quite out (~7.5 thou total) it is leaking only a tiny amount. this is with a reused (and copper treated) nismo metal gasket and arp studs.

but please do whatever you guys think is right. mine is leaking after all, so i dont have all that much room to talk.

- Tim

Post by **boost_boy** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:38 am

r34 gtr wrote:dee, ive done exactly what you said and it still leaked. i eventually used both sets of washers because after measuring the studs, it seemed like on 1 or 2 i was just tightening the nuts against the shoulder on the stud, instead of the head. even though the head/block surface is quite out (~7.5 thou total) it is leaking only a tiny amount. this is with a reused (and copper treated) nismo metal gasket and arp studs.

but please do whatever you guys think is right. mine is leaking after all, so i dont have all that much room to talk.

- Tim

The biggest problem I think some of you are having is crappy part#. I don't know what part # you all are using, but for those who are having problems, could you please post of the part #s for your studs, so that I can compare them to the part #s I use on my engines as well as customers engines, too.

Dee

Post by **originalsin** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:14 am

i just ordered these 202-5402

Post by **boost_boy** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:38 am

originalsin wrote:i just ordered these 202-5402

What part # is that for and who told you it's the correct part #?

Dee

Post by **c-rad** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:00 pm

202-5402 here as well.

Originally I ordered the CA specific kit (202-4702 I believe) and they wouldn't even thread into the block. 202-5402 is the SR main stud kit which is the original arp setup people were using before the kit got its own part # for the CA.

Post by **1SlowCA18DET** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:59 pm

i used the ard sr main stud kit with a cometic head gasket and the washers also and i have no problems yet.

Post by **originalsin** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:12 am

ok so dee, what part number are you running

and, should oem headbolts be able to go up to 300whp without problems?

Post by **r34 gtr** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:51 am

i dont have a clue as to the part #, but i ordered them through someone on here a while back. im sure i wouldnt be having any problems if i just got my head/block surface milled true.

- Tim

Post by **boost_boy** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:32 pm

originalsin wrote:ok so dee, what part number are you running

and, should oem headbolts be able to go up to 300whp without problems?

Years ago I had the wrong part #, sent my bolt to ARP, and this application works perfectly in every engine I've installed them in; even the ones that didn't get machined.

BTW... Tim and Andy, you guys have mail. please read what I wrote to you and take the advice given. Dee

Post by **TurboFortysx** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:39 pm

Yeah I ordered a set directly from ARP and they said that they had problems with the first batch of head studs. It took two weeks to get the right ones but they worked perfectly. I will try to find the part number tonight.

Post by **boost_boy** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:49 pm

originalsin wrote:ok so dee, what part number are you running

and, should oem headbolts be able to go up to 300whp without problems?

OEM bolts can take more than 400whp. I did 332whp on an internally stock/used CA18DET using a turbo with a .48 rear housing, 20psi of boost, pump gas, and very humble mapping. We'll see how the car does with the same turbo, a ported head, Heavy Duty valve springs, and cams. So yes, it can be done and it wasn't the 1st time I've done or others around the world.

Dee

Post by **sideways danny** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:16 am

the Norris designs s13 running over 600bhp (that's about 680 in US terms) used standard head bolts

Post by **TurboFortysx** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:34 pm

So today I checked my headstuds after putting 150 miles on my car since the cometic head gasket. I re-torqued all the studs to 86 ftlbs and found out that three of my studs were not as tight as the others? WTF. They were all torqued properly the first time to stock specs. Maybe this is the reason why head gaskets blow out. I will check them again in 200 miles to see what happens. Anyone else find this problem?

Post by **originalsin** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:04 pm

this may be a dumb question but would loctite or some type of thread sealant be a bad idea?

Post by **boost_boy** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:23 pm

originalsin wrote:this may be a dumb question but would loctite or some type of thread sealant be a bad idea?

I see why not. I don't use it.

Dee

Post by **jdmDAvey** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:28 pm

r34 GTR- dont fight the ARP's man. I am positive that the reason your gasket leaking is because the studs you have are for an SR. My friend fought this problem for a very long time. The SR studs are just slightly to long. Everything will torque down properly, but, your just torquing down to the end of the threads. It's barely noticable, but they ARE 2 LONG. Just for ****s and giggles, try putting stock bolts in. I betcha your gasket will seal! BTW he thought that his part # was correct, but it had a CA18DET sticker placed over the SR sticker on the ARP box.

Post by **r34 gtr** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:04 pm

alright then. wish i still had the box so i could confirm. if thats the case i may be needing some new ones.

dee, could you throw me the part no. you use? i didnt get your email the other day (hotmail blows). if you want to send it to [email protected] i would love you forever (not in a gay sense though. "i dont play that way. im not that way!!" - carl, athf)

- tim

Post by **boost_boy** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:52 pm

r34 gtr wrote:alright then. wish i still had the box so i could confirm. if thats the case i may be needing some new ones.

dee, could you throw me the part no. you use? i didnt get your email the other day (hotmail blows). if you want to send it to [email protected] i would love you forever (not in a gay sense though. "i dont play that way. im not that way!!" - carl, athf)

- tim

I don't know about that gay stuff, Tim . But I'll re-send my previous email to you.

Dee

Post by **89'ClubK's** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:32 am

Off the subject, but couldn't reach you any other way! Please look at the Post title Need Help! Thanks!

Post by **r32line** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:48 pm

Ive just ordered ARP 202-4302. Is this the right part number boost boy?

Post by **boost_boy** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:08 am

r32line wrote:Ive just ordered ARP 202-4302. Is this the right part number boost boy?

Not the same as the ones in my invoice, but could very well work..

Dee

Post by **r32line** » Mon May 08, 2006 11:05 pm

If you dont mind me asking, what is the partnumber you are using?

Post by **tyrannix** » Tue May 09, 2006 4:24 am

copper spray on metal head gasket, eh?

what kind of solvent do you use to clean off copper gasket residue when you want to reuse the metal HG?

CJ

Post by **r32line** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:11 pm

Ive talked to a few people back here in New Zealand, seems the ARP studs that you get are just SR main studs. what some people do is use 2 washers on the stud that goes in above the waterpump, apparently that is the one that runs out of thread before tightening properly.

Dee, I would love to know the part number you are using with success

Email, [email protected]

To all you ARP head stud users!

To all you ARP head stud users!

Re: (sideways danny)

Re: (originalsin)

Re: (r34 gtr)

Re: (originalsin)

Re: (c-rad)

Re: (originalsin)

Re: (originalsin)

Re: (originalsin)

Re: (r34 gtr)

Re: To all you ARP head stud users! (boost_boy)

Re: (boost_boy)

Re: (r32line)

Re: (boost_boy)

Re: (tyrannix)

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