Quest for the Most Powerful Stock Turbo Z

[StockTurbosFTW]

Since plans keep on changing I guess I will do my re-introduction. I was going to wait until I had the things I wanted done but life makes that difficult. We have our second child due in July and we just bought a house so obviously we have things more important than the Z but there is no rush since she is paid for.

Anyways I was surprised no one picked up on this but I am not new to the forum…If you think you have seen the pics of my car before, you have. I wanted to start out new with new pics and a new look for the car but I guess you will get to see the transformation since it is going to happen over the course of years.

I have big plans for the Z. I am not really a car guy (which is obvious) but I do a lot of reading on the Z and I am trying to learn about cars in general and how to work on them. A lack of tools is one of my biggest issues. The extent of my car ability is putting on the dual pop, doing some minor weight reduction, and getting drunk and spray painting a few parts…

So here are a few pics of the car…




My Z and another at Full Blown Motors

My Z and another at RS Motors

My car on the Mustang Dyno at RS Motors

My latest upgrade…

Mod List
Some of these are installed and some are sitting in my garage…
Installed
SZ 3” Down Pipes
SZ 3”-2.5” Test Pipes
Stillen 2.5” Catback Exhaust
Selin Dual MAF Translator with 2 JWT POPs
SZ Subframe Spacers
Greddy Turbo Timer
IPP SS Clutch Line
Chromoly Clutch Pivot Ball
Fidanza Lightweight Flywheel
RPS Max Street Clutch
Rear-Kumho Ecsta XS 275/35/18 180/AA/A
Front-Kumho Ecsta XS 245/40/18 180/AA/A


In the garage
UO Underdrive Pulley /w other Pulleys
http://www.z1motorsports.com/product_in ... ts_id=1577
HI Overdrive Water Pump Pulley
120K Mile Timing Belt Kit with Ramey Idler Bearing Studs
SZ Z32 Expansion Turbo Outlet Pipes
AshSpec Massives V2s SM Intercoolers
AshSpec 2.5” SMIC Piping
AshSpec 2.5” Planar Inlet Pipe Kit
SZ Chip
SPL Tension Rods
Greddy Profect B Boost Controller

Power
When I finish the move I will scan the dynos and do another one and post them here.
The RWHP on my latest dyno was 330 RWHP (but it did not include the torque for some reason.)
It was done on a Dynojet. Oddly enough on an earlier dyno I made right around 290 RWHP on a Dynojet AND in the pic above, I made around 290 RWHP on a Mustang Dyno.
Either way I am making 330 RWHP according to my normal Dynojet I go to.
I will be posting more after the move…We are moving into the new house tomorrow…see you guys around.

Goals
My goal is to make the most powerful stock turbo Z. I am aiming big and shooting for 450 rwhp on pump gas. If you want to tell me that is not possible, you may as well save it. Though I do think it will get that high I want to aim big. Here is a link on the SZ blog of a stock turbo Z making 419 rwhp on 91 octane at 14 psi and I plan on doing more than he has done…
http://specialtyz.com/blog/?p=441
In the next post I will make a list of planned parts. There is no time frame on this project right now but I would like to think it will be done in the next 5 years or so. The single biggest factor is when can I get the rebuilt motor.

[StockTurbosFTW]

Here is the planned list of major mods as far as the engine goes...

Engine will be installed by SZ and tuned by SZ
Rebuilt VG30 Long Block by IPP with JWT 500 Cams
BDE Upgraded VTC Intake Cam Gears
Tomei Exhaust Cam Gears
Z1 Stock Turbos
HKS Internal Wastegate Actuators
BDE Motor Mounts
SZ Oil Pan
New EFI/EGI Wiring Harness
New Alternator/Transmission Harness
AshSpec Massives V2 Intercoolers (Have)
AshSpec 2.5” SMIC Piping Kit /w SZ Coned Outlet Pipes (Have)
AshSpec 2.5” Planar Inlet Piping Kit (Have)
Z1 Upgraded Throttle Bodies
Selin MAF Translator with JWT Dual Pops (Have)
Koyo Radiator
Z1 or Stillen Engine Oil Cooler
Nismo 740cc Fuel Injectors
UO Underdrive Pulley 4 piece set (Have)
HI Water Pump Pulley (Have)
3” SZ Down Pipes (Have)
3” SZ Test Pipes
3” SZ Catback Exhaust
Mike Smith Exhaust Manifolds
Z1 Platinum Series Driveshaft
RPS Max Street Clutch (Have)
Fidanza Lightweight Flywheel (Have)
Greddy Turbo Timer (Have)
SZ Chip (Have)
Blitz SBC i-D Spec-R Boost Controller
SZ ECU Map Selector
Snow Performance Stage 2 Boost Cooler Water Injection Kit

[StockTurbosFTW]

Plan for Suspension and Wheels
SPL Rear Traction Rods (Have)
SPL Pro Rear Upper Arms
TEIN Flex Coilover Kit
TEIN EDFC and Motor Kit
Stillen Anti Sway Bar Kit
SPL Adjuster Wrench
SPL Front Upper Arms
SPL HICAS Eliminator
SPL Front Sway Bar Links
Carbing Front Strut Bar
Stillen Rear Strut Brace
GodSpeed Omega Deep Dish Wheels (Black Chrome)

[StockTurbosFTW]

Plan for Interior
Triple Pillar Gauge Pod
Sparco Pedal Set
Sparco Racing Seats (not sure what type yet)

Plan for Engine Dress-up
Powder Coated Balance Tubes
Powder Coated Water Pipes
Powder Coated and Modified Plenum
Powder Coated Valve Set
Stainless Steel Relay Covers and other things
Carbon Fiber Fan Shroud
Timing Belt Cover (Painted or CF)
Cable Cover (Painted or CF)

Plan for Body/Lighting
Kaixen HID Kit
JDM Tail Lights
JDM Front Fascia
Twin Z Design Type 2 Rear Bumper
PowerTrix Nose Panel
CF Fog Light Ducts
JDM Smoked Corner Lights
Rear Smoked Corner Side marker Lenses

[canadian booster]

for not being a car guy you sure have a tastey list of parts! <3 Ash Massives, that guy knows his stuff.
you have the greddy ebc but you're going to upgrade eventually to the blitz sbc-id ? i had the blitz, i liked it and all the different modes you can program, screens and graphs and things
were you thinking of powder coating all the engine stuff a different color or just black?

[vulcanrush]

Goals
My goal is to make the most powerful stock turbo Z. I am aiming big and shooting for 450 rwhp on pump gas. If you want to tell me that is not possible, you may as well save it. Though I do think it will get that high I want to aim big. Here is a link on the SZ blog of a stock turbo Z making 419 rwhp on 91 octane at 14 psi and I plan on doing more than he has done…
http://specialtyz.com/blog/?p=441
In the next post I will make a list of planned parts. There is no time frame on this project right now but I would like to think it will be done in the next 5 years or so. The single biggest factor is when can I get the rebuilt motor.

what do you have that he doesn't, the jwt500 cams?
if you're going to use water or methanol injection, 450rwhp on 93-octane is very possible.
also, please keep in mind, although aiming for a high number is a pretty fun goal....i wouldn't daily-drive stock turbos at more than 14-to-15-psi, you're really working them past their efficiency range.

[sdhsbaseball]

Not to be a debby downer but you realize people have hit over 500 on stock turbos...

[vulcanrush]

Not to be a debby downer but you realize people have hit over 500 on stock turbos...

on race fuel, huge difference.
and those numbers were just for bragging rights, it's not recommended to drive like that.

[StockTurbosFTW]

what do you have that he doesn't, the jwt500 cams?
if you're going to use water or methanol injection, 450rwhp on 93-octane is very possible.
also, please keep in mind, although aiming for a high number is a pretty fun goal....i wouldn't daily-drive stock turbos at more than 14-to-15-psi, you're really working them past their efficiency range.

Well yes, mostly the cams and the meth injection but I will get with Kyle at IPP and build the motor specifically for what I am trying to do.

If you look at that link he actually made the 419 rwhp on 91 octane at only 14 psi. I might not need to take it above that in any situation but one nice thing about a boost controller is I can turn down the boost. The car will not be a daily driver at that point. I will have my Juke by then.

[StockTurbosFTW]

Not to be a debby downer but you realize people have hit over 500 on stock turbos...

on race fuel, huge difference.
and those numbers were just for bragging rights, it's not recommended to drive like that.

Yeah, I am trying to do that on pump gas. If you look at that link, that Z made 499 rwhp on race gas. I mean I may not have the most powerful stock turbo Z but it should be close. I mean honestly...what more could be done?

[StockTurbosFTW]

for not being a car guy you sure have a tastey list of parts! <3 Ash Massives, that guy knows his stuff.
you have the greddy ebc but you're going to upgrade eventually to the blitz sbc-id ? i had the blitz, i liked it and all the different modes you can program, screens and graphs and things
were you thinking of powder coating all the engine stuff a different color or just black?

The Greddy boost controller is actually going to be installed next week. But I think that is just a MBC, not an EBC. But yes, I am going to upgrade to the Blitz eventually. My buddy is basically giving me the boost controller so I figured why not? It will be better driving anyways. I can turn the boost down for my daily driving and up when I need to...

I have an idea with the colors but I am not 100% yet. I am going for a black/red theme or black/red/carbon fiber.
Here are some of the pipes I have now...


It looks like this set up but obviously mine has red coupler...

This is the other set of Pipes

Here are some neat pics from AshSpec of the system set up on the engine. I will not have the "Doolz" though...




As far as the colors go...I actually found this beautiful Z that is almost exactly like what I was thinking (with a few differences.)


I will have a little more stainless steel and chrome than that but very similar to what I was thinking. I am keeping the stock fan so I will have the carbon fiber fan shroud. I also like the painted timing belt cover and cable cover. I was going to go with carbon fiber but I am going to look into the price of getting it painted because it may be cheaper (and I think it might look better.)

[StockTurbosFTW]

Since I started posting pics of my plans I guess I will post some more…
Here is the nose panel I am getting (without the decal) and this actually shows all of the carbon fiber parts if I go that route…

A closer look...

As far as the body goes…
Twin Z Rear Bumper (with the JDM tail lights)

The best front fascia a Z can have (with the CF fog light ducts.)

These…

Ending with these…

Riding on these…

I think she will be a very pretty Z someday…

[300ZXttZMAN]

Very nice parts list. Looks very familiar.

My only concern is that if you don't do any of the work how do you expect to keep everything maintained?

[StockTurbosFTW]

Very nice parts list. Looks very familiar.

My only concern is that if you don't do any of the work how do you expect to keep everything maintained?

$$$

[300ZXttZMAN]

The Greddy boost controller is actually going to be installed next week. But I think that is just a MBC, not an EBC. But yes, I am going to upgrade to the Blitz eventually. My buddy is basically giving me the boost controller so I figured why not? It will be better driving anyways. I can turn the boost down for my daily driving and up when I need to...

You think?!? It either is or its not. If it has any wires its an EBC.
fyi: EBC means Electronic boost controller

[StockTurbosFTW]

The Greddy boost controller is actually going to be installed next week. But I think that is just a MBC, not an EBC. But yes, I am going to upgrade to the Blitz eventually. My buddy is basically giving me the boost controller so I figured why not? It will be better driving anyways. I can turn the boost down for my daily driving and up when I need to...

You think?!? It either is or its not. If it has any wires its an EBC.
fyi: EBC means Electronic boost controller

Well it has wires but I thought an EBC like the Blitz maintains the boost at a certain level. The Greddy only has a couple of nobs to turn...so all it does is ups and lowers the boost...

[canadian booster]

all looks pretty good, i love those ashspec photos of the engines, good reference material right there for all sorts of things.
and my personal fav, those wheels are

edit: i'm not a big fan of the CF parts or the CF look so much anymore, i still see it from time to time on old beatup ricers around town. with, of course, the exception of those powertrix foglight ducts, they're pretty sweet (although i'd probably get the non CF looking ones if it was me lol)

[StockTurbosFTW]

all looks pretty good, i love those ashspec photos of the engines, good reference material right there for all sorts of things.
and my personal fav, those wheels are

edit: i'm not a big fan of the CF parts or the CF look so much anymore, i still see it from time to time on old beatup ricers around town. with, of course, the exception of those powertrix foglight ducts, they're pretty sweet (although i'd probably get the non CF looking ones if it was me lol)

I was kind of thinking the same thing. Some of it does feel kind of RICE but the parts are ready...I think I might go the route of getting the stuff painted but one thing is for sure...I need a new fan shroud...
This is what I did to mine...

You ever get drunk and do something stupid...I have...
But that thing needs to get fixed ASAP. The thing is I think they are too flimsy to paint like the other stuff. So that either leaves me with a stock one $110 bucks or a cf one $180...

[sdhsbaseball]

There really isnt anything else you could do, I just want to understand why you want to keep the turbos stock if you are gong to max out everything else. Its one thing if you are going for a stock turbos, block, heads record like that z or not wanting to touch/tear into the block/heads/turbos but since you are building everything else you are going to be maxing the stockers out very quickly even if you arent running max boost since anything over ~20 is out of its efficiently range and in the surge area of the map. I will post a compressor chart when I get home since I cant uplod a picture of it right now but it will show you why I dont understand.

[StockTurbosFTW]

There really isnt anything else you could do, I just want to understand why you want to keep the turbos stock if you are gong to max out everything else. Its one thing if you are going for a stock turbos, block, heads record like that z or not wanting to touch/tear into the block/heads/turbos but since you are building everything else you are going to be maxing the stockers out very quickly even if you arent running max boost since anything over ~20 is out of its efficiently range and in the surge area of the map. I will post a compressor chart when I get home since I cant uplod a picture of it right now but it will show you why I dont undertand.

I guess I am just a fan of the stock turbos...I mean I could always upgrade to another 4 bolt turbo but I think the stock ones can make the power I want.

[sdhsbaseball]

I guess I am just a fan of the stock turbos...I mean I could always upgrade to another 4 bolt turbo but I think the stock ones can make the power I want.

That's fair but do you realize that journal bearing turbos are quite old technology wise? Any BB turbo, which for us is a 5 bolt, is going to give you a quicker spool. Another thought to add is this, when you run turbos to the edge of there efficiency range any addition raise in boost will not give you the same result as when the turbo is in its efficency range. The reason for this is the turbo can only flow so much air before it basically hits a wall and will not produce anymore boost on top of that the charged air become much much hotter when you start to leave the efficiency range. This means that if you were to get a bigger turbo you could run less boost, have a cooler intake charge, and still make the same power and then have the possibility to crank boost up for race gas or just for fun.

Just something to think about.

[300ZXttZMAN]

Man, your going to have a real tough time trying to do this build if you can't distinguish the difference between something as easy as a boost controller.

Example of what a manual boost controler looks like:



^No wires, No display screen, and no stepper motor = No need for power, it just uses a couple of knobs.

If yours has wires then its a EBC, hopefully you have all the pieces though.

[vulcanrush]

you are going to be maxing the stockers out very quickly even if you arent running max boost since anything over ~20 is out of its efficiently range and in the surge area of the map. I will post a compressor chart when I get home since I cant uplod a picture of it right now but it will show you why I dont understand.

anything over 14-to-15, really, is out of its efficiency range, especially if you take reliability or longevity into account
20-psi, on a normal 8.5 static compression-ratio engine, and you're looking at race fuel

[bartZ32tt]

I'd do a little more research on the z1 upgraded throttle bodies. Not going to start a vender war, but there have been many complaints about them. There is a guy using a cnc to bore out stock tb's or stanza tb's if you're looking for a bigger bore.

I agree about the stock turbos being obsolete for this build. I think there's a point in a build when it stops making sense trying to retain them; especially with built internals. I don't like the idea of a 270* thrust bearing vs 360* used in today's technology turbos. Your power goals may change; might as well save yourself a motor pull and get bb turbos now, IMO. Only downside is you'll need to change your screen name

[StockTurbosFTW]

Man, your going to have a real tough time trying to do this build if you can't distinguish the difference between something as easy as a boost controller.

Example of what a manual boost controler looks like:



^No wires, No display screen, and no stepper motor = No need for power, it just uses a couple of knobs.

If yours has wires then its a EBC, hopefully you have all the pieces though.

Well I feel like an idiot now...but now I have learned something new...I just thought there was a difference between one where you just turn the knobs like the Greddy one and one like the Blitz...I mean obviously there is a difference but the difference is not that one is an EBC and one is not...

[StockTurbosFTW]

I'd do a little more research on the z1 upgraded throttle bodies. Not going to start a vender war, but there have been many complaints about them. There is a guy using a cnc to bore out stock tb's or stanza tb's if you're looking for a bigger bore.

I agree about the stock turbos being obsolete for this build. I think there's a point in a build when it stops making sense trying to retain them; especially with built internals. I don't like the idea of a 270* thrust bearing vs 360* used in today's technology turbos. Your power goals may change; might as well save yourself a motor pull and get bb turbos now, IMO. Only downside is you'll need to change your screen name

I know the Z1 TBs had issues. That is actually the reason I do not have them now. Seb would not sell them to me because Z1 put a hold on their sales. I been in contact with Seb for the past year about them. It seems like the issue is fixed from my understanding but I am also doing their plenum modification which should make them fit nicely.

I guess one of the reasons I like the stock turbos not many people do this (for obvious reasons.) I mean what is special about a Z with upgraded turbos that makes mid to high 400s rwhp? They are a dine a dozen...

[300ZXttZMAN]

Well I feel like an idiot now...but now I have learned something new...I just thought there was a difference between one where you just turn the knobs like the Greddy one and one like the Blitz...I mean obviously there is a difference but the difference is not that one is an EBC and one is not...

The difference is accuracy. If you research these things you will find all the info you want to know.

The Blitz id spec R is one of the best on the market. You can't go wrong with it.

[StockTurbosFTW]

The difference is accuracy. If you research these things you will find all the info you want to know.

The Blitz id spec R is one of the best on the market. You can't go wrong with it.

I know the Blitz is awesome...I guess I did a little too much assuming and not enough reading. A few more years of stupid comments and I may have things down. But hey, at least I'm not the one doing the work right?

[StockTurbosFTW]

Today:
I gave the Z a wash today. She is looking good but I have stock wheels on the front and aftermarket ones on the rear...I got a flat tire...so now I am "that guy."

I Also picked up a cheap boost gauge. It is a prosport. It is always good to have one of those but I think the stock one is accurate...so the question is why am I still pushing 12 pounds of boost?

[300ZXttZMAN]

I'd do a little more research on the z1 upgraded throttle bodies. Not going to start a vender war, but there have been many complaints about them. There is a guy using a cnc to bore out stock tb's or stanza tb's if you're looking for a bigger bore.

I agree about the stock turbos being obsolete for this build. I think there's a point in a build when it stops making sense trying to retain them; especially with built internals. I don't like the idea of a 270* thrust bearing vs 360* used in today's technology turbos. Your power goals may change; might as well save yourself a motor pull and get bb turbos now, IMO. Only downside is you'll need to change your screen name

I know the Z1 TBs had issues. That is actually the reason I do not have them now. Seb would not sell them to me because Z1 put a hold on their sales. I been in contact with Seb for the past year about them. It seems like the issue is fixed from my understanding but I am also doing their plenum modification which should make them fit nicely.

I guess one of the reasons I like the stock turbos not many people do this (for obvious reasons.) I mean what is special about a Z with upgraded turbos that makes mid to high 400s rwhp? They are a dine a dozen...

When I was ordering my parts (in november of 2011) I asked Greg about the Z1 throttle bodies because I need them since I have the Ash IC piping and massives and he said the problems were hit and miss and that he had a good set he could ship me (because he performed his own quality control - Specialty Z kicks a**).

In a nut shell alot of the problems were a direct result of very (read: VERY) poor quality control performed by Z1. In each batch they had there were some bad apples and some good apples. If you buy them you should check them before you go to install them because the problems were visible or could be found without having to install them. Even if you buy a set now doesn't mean your going to get the V2 because they may still have some V1 that they are shipping out to various retailers.

But since you buying them from SZ they will obviously check them before they ship them out.

Also Z1 made a new run and they posted about them in this thread on tt.net.