Manual Locking Hubs and Allmode 4WD - 03 LE

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jscricca
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:08 pm
Car: 03 Pathfinder LE

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I've been scouring forums and finding a lot of conflicting information on this topic. I wanted to see if anyone here had first hand experience or more knowledge on this.

I have an 03 LE with the Allmode 4WD (electronic dial). Many sources say that this 4WD system isn't compatible with manual locking hubs because the front driveshaft drives an oil pump. If you disconnect the front hubs than the oil pump disengages and you could have overheating issues.

Some users who have done this have 4WD lights and errors after highway driving and others don't. Some claim that this could cause harm and overheating issues, but I can't seem to find any concrete information on this.

I understand there could be issues if I engaged 4WD with the hubs unlocked; I'd obviously make sure they are locked before changing. I'm still nervous this could cause issues to the Allmode 4WD system. Since my girlfriend drives the Pathfinder most of the time, I don't want her freaking out everytime a 4WD light comes on.

The motivation for this is to increase mileage. Since my girlfriend does 15k highway miles a year, this could help in the long haul. Any feedback on your mileage for those who switched would also help.

Does anyone here have first hand experience or have some detailed info they can share?

:mike


Blindaviator
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:49 pm
Car: 2001 Nissan Pathfinder LE

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I don't have first hand experience but by what I understand from others is the main issue is the transfer case... Unlike the manually shifted transfer case With the AWD version the transfer case basically has a clutch inside that will engage and disengage at will when in AWD mode and that is what will cause most of the issues... It could suddenly engage in AWD mode (or engage on demand with 4WD mode) at higher speeds while the front drive shaft and differential are stationary causing serious damage...
See here for others that have first hand experience with it: locking-hubs-t295565.html
As long as your GF is clear on when to use and NOT to use then it prolly won't hurt anything... As long as the AWD mode is disengaged and it stays in 2WD mode while hubs are unlocked you won't have to worry about the front oil pump as neither the axles or drive shaft will be turning...

I drive big trucks for a living and we have something similar on them, an inter-axle differential lock... It is designed for extra traction in slippery conditions but if you engage it while the main drive axle is slipping then it will detonate the secondary differential...

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rgk
Posts: 587
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:48 am
Car: 02 Pathfinder LE 3.5 auto 4x4
Location: Indiana Dunes National Park

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Perhaps, but the entire idea behind the 4x4 shifter is to throw it in gear at a moment's notice, (like if you suddenly hit really bad weather) instead of getting out of the car and locking the hubs. If it were my woman, I'd opt for the decreased mileage. These cars get crappy gas mileage anyways, so what's another 2-3 mpg if safety and/or maintenance is a concern?

fleurys
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:00 pm
Car: 2001 Pathfinder , Locked and loaded !
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I'm the guy who assumed that the front driveshaft was driving the oil pump for the atx14a transfer case (did you find this on npora?). In the FSM, it was stated <the main shaft> and I mistakenly assumed the front one... Don't ask, I don't know why.... But one of the forum user was a mechanic at nissan in ontario and he confirmed that the fsm meant the rear driveshaft..

So... There is 2 oil pumps for the transfer case. One mechanical and one electric. The mechanical one is driven by the rear driveshaft turning....so as long as your rear wheels are turning, your transfer case is being lubricated. For the electric one, it is being used when the truck is in neutral, park or reverse.

Bottom line is that there is no adverse effect of using hubs in the front even with your 03. (I used them with my 01). The kick is that your selector needs to be on 2wd when the hubs are unlocked, and either AUTO or 4WD (high/LOW) when the hubs are locked. Leaving the dial at AUTO while the hubs are unlocked can create real carnage if the ecm decides to engage 4wd (after detecting wheel slippage). Since everything is turning in the rear and nothing is turning in the front, The transfer case would engage with a huge difference in rotations between the back and front.... not good.... So as long as you remember this, you will have no issues.
Cheers.

jscricca
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:08 pm
Car: 03 Pathfinder LE

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fleurys wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:24 am
I'm the guy who assumed that the front driveshaft was driving the oil pump for the atx14a transfer case (did you find this on npora?). In the FSM, it was stated <the main shaft> and I mistakenly assumed the front one... Don't ask, I don't know why.... But one of the forum user was a mechanic at nissan in ontario and he confirmed that the fsm meant the rear driveshaft..

So... There is 2 oil pumps for the transfer case. One mechanical and one electric. The mechanical one is driven by the rear driveshaft turning....so as long as your rear wheels are turning, your transfer case is being lubricated. For the electric one, it is being used when the truck is in neutral, park or reverse.

Bottom line is that there is no adverse effect of using hubs in the front even with your 03. (I used them with my 01). The kick is that your selector needs to be on 2wd when the hubs are unlocked, and either AUTO or 4WD (high/LOW) when the hubs are locked. Leaving the dial at AUTO while the hubs are unlocked can create real carnage if the ecm decides to engage 4wd (after detecting wheel slippage). Since everything is turning in the rear and nothing is turning in the front, The transfer case would engage with a huge difference in rotations between the back and front.... not good.... So as long as you remember this, you will have no issues.
Cheers.
Thanks for the info!

I was going to pull the trigger but then realized the Warn Hubs will NOT fit through the 03 LE wheels. The bore on these 17 inches wheels is too small. I read another thread of someone making this mistake while installing trying to reinstall the wheels. I don't wan't to end up in that situation. :facepalm:

Unfortunately I don't think its worth the money and hassle to get new wheels with the hubs. It would be many years before I recouped that cost.

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atraudes
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:46 pm
Car: 2001.5 Infiniti QX4 4WD
Location: Sammamish, WA

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It's possible to just bore out your existing wheels to fit. The cost is much lower than new wheels/tires and if you decided to undo it later down the road you probably won't be able to tell after the caps are reinstalled.

fleurys, it's good to hear that. I remember looking into this years ago and ultimately decided not to because there was that doubt about the pump being driven by the front wheels.

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fueler
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rgk wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:04 pm
Perhaps, but the entire idea behind the 4x4 shifter is to throw it in gear at a moment's notice, (like if you suddenly hit really bad weather) instead of getting out of the car and locking the hubs. If it were my woman, I'd opt for the decreased mileage. These cars get crappy gas mileage anyways, so what's another 2-3 mpg if safety and/or maintenance is a concern?
You want that wear and tear on your front axles? The first time I had a front axle wear out & go bad, I was kicking myself for not buying hubs sooner.... replacement axles cost 3x more than hubs.

Also, if you break a front axle while wheeling without freewheel hubs, you are stuck in place...hopefully you're wheeling near an auto parts store. If you break an axle WITH hubs, you can just unlock the hubs and drive home, as far as you want.

The hubs pay for themselves. Look under my QX4 with 250k miles and the front axles are still like new.

R50JR
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:36 pm
Car: 03 pathfinder le

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Hi everyone and happy new year! I’m sorry to resurrect the thread but I would also like to get some clarification. From reading previous posts I understand nothing will be damaged if installing manual hubs on the all mode system, but does that mean no dash lights will come on? What is the reason why some people have had the lights appear? Is it because they are in auto while having the hubs unlocked? Is it only certain MY that are okay with manual hubs? I’d like to get some clarification before I jump into buying these. And if someone could post a photo of an install with either RR or MM hubs on the 17” le rim. Thanks!

fleurys
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:00 pm
Car: 2001 Pathfinder , Locked and loaded !
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No dash light will come on. It seems that when some people (Only one I know of actually), got the 4x4 light while having unlocked hubs was due to some sort of issues with their 4x4 transfer case to start with. Not related with the installation of the hubs. The atx14a transfer case is fussy on the oil level and quality. If the oil has not been changed for a long time (many years), the 4x4 light will start to illuminated sometimes. Since this transfer case has clutch plates similar to one of an AT transmission, oil quality and friction is important. This is why is runs with AT transmission oil in it and not gear oil like the AT10x one from the 96-2000 model.

Cheers.

R50JR
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:36 pm
Car: 03 pathfinder le

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Perfect! Thank you Steve. Expect a purchase for a lift kit coming your way next week. The mods are beginning!


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