G50/Q45 (90-96) Suspension Stuff.. added install pics

[Turbon8er]

Update. Whiteline FUCA bushing, D2 coilover install pics added.

So i started this thread thinking i could research and answer all the "if"s and "but"s of the Q45 suspension easily enough, but perhaps "my eyes were bigger than my stomach", so to speak. I will continue to add stuff i find, but i had to rename the thread. I felt like "Suspension Bible" was a bit too eager to be all encompassing. Forgive my "longwindedness", i'm just the type to get caught up in the details and feel the need to explain it.

I'll post some of my Install pics a few posts down.

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Ok, I've owned my Q since 2008 and have countless hours of research invested into this car, but i still find myself jumping from forum to forum re-gathering information to verify certain topics. That's pretty normal. However, the one topic that should have a central plethora of knowledge by now, i would think to be, the mixed up suspension on our beloved land yachts. There are a few things that we (long time Q owners) kind of know in the back of our minds, and some points remain less 'memorable'. So I would like to compile a list of KNOWN suspension facts (and theories) dealing with the G50 Q45, as the topic is spread so thinly across the www, and most of the knowledge base being on this particular forum. Most of my info is simply from reading, so I invite All Q owners to share pics of their setup, their opinions on the ride quality/handling and any 'tips' they might have for fellow enthusiasts. I plan on lowering my car and will list all the aftermarket support i can find, as this has been a tedious search. I hope the mods don't mind.

I will continue to edit/update/polish this thread (if any of my 'facts' are incorrect or need add'l info, please lmk so i can fix/add). Also any useful links will be centralized in the OP.



Pertaining Sections of FSM (these are for 2nd gen, but most components are the same):
Front suspension
Rear Suspension


A Few quick facts to start:

- 1st gen (90-93) and 2nd gen Q45 G50 (94-96) have slight differences. These include:

Third Link (front) is differently sized. This will impact swapping front struts. The 1st gen is about 3/4", like ALL other Nissan (R32, Z32), while 2nd gen is about 7/8". Any/every aftermarket coilover is designed for the smaller size. Use of a washer to space the coilover mount away from the arm, was necessary for clearance in my case. minor detail, but absolutely needed.


If you google Q45 Suspension, you may find limited info for upgrades, however being that the Z32 and G50 share components, there are more options than you might realize.

- Z32 (90-96 300zx TT, NA but NOT Electronically Adjustable susp.) and G50 share MANY of the same control arms and bushings, but NOT ALL. The following can be interchanged:

Front:
- FUCA BUSHINGS front upper control arm BUSHINGs (actual control arm is slightly different, some online info says Nissan used the same arms initially, but later provided separate part numbers.)
- Aftermarket Adj. Z32 FUCA can be used. Powertrix brand confirmed by smpresco9027. (note: long time owners say the adjustment lock nuts will loosen over time.) cheap chinese arms are a knock-off design of Powertrix and the like, but use lower quality bearings. Take caution, as some owners have seen failure in them.
- Tension/Castor Rods (Q45a are slightly different sized bushings, use base model or aftermarket adjustable in place of to be cost effective).

Rear:
- RUCA rear upper control arms
- Traction rods
- Toe rods
- All aftermarket S13 arms should work (i used s13 below), s14 might work, unconfirmed.

Consider this...
Something to SERIOUSLY think about when doing Suspension upgrade/repair is the Quality of the Part, Assembly Type and Driving Characteristic . For instance, the use of an Adjustable FUCA with roller bearings will require the T/C rods to have Spherical ends to avoid laterally stressing the roller bearings, which would lead to premature failure. However, in doing that 'upgrade', the Ride Quality of the vehicle is greatly changed. Now vibrations and shock will be transferred much more directly to the steering input. The Q has a suspension that can quickly leave the 'luxury' zone and obtain a 'track car' feel overnight. Hardened Spherical-end control arms and Solid bushings will change the handling and ride significantly, i have seen numerous owners who have been 'undecided' or unhappy with the change.

This is a Z32 forum, but the OP has changed his mind after doing 'hard-end' links.
harshness
Camber kit install with oem FUCA

I've been contemplating doing an adjustable FUCA, but the idea of loosing the comfort, and shelling out $$$$ in parts, has me looking at other methods for camber correction. Shimming or machining some spacers for behind the FUCA mount seems like a viable option. Having access to a knee mill at a friends shop, i'm seriously considering making a batch run of spacers to suit the 'OEM Z32/G50 drop' , should it be a decent ride and people show interest.


OEM Z32 parts 'Slam' method
Useful for lowering with OEM Z32 Front struts (x4). S14 REAR TOP MOUNT from the S14 Rear Shock can be used (front and rear) on G50 without modification to Q towers (says theJapino).

theJapino's thread


USEFUL LINKS TO PARTS:

Energy Suspension Store




I will add more later and section better...have a bunch of stuff i've come across in the Z forums. Also i'd like to discuss in further detail the difference in FUCA brands/design. There is a difference not only in the quality of bearing but also the placement. Anyone who would care to elaborate before my return, feel free. If not, i will provide more links n such. As the title states, i'd like this thread to be as comprehensive as possible.... but i understand if you're not into spoon feeding lazy people. more later..... -Nate

[maxnix]

A lot of the Z32 components are dimensionally different from the identical appearing G50 components.

Might try a search here and in General Chat to get a more complete history.

[Turbon8er]

A lot of the Z32 components are dimensionally different from the identical appearing G50 components.

Might try a search here and in General Chat to get a more complete history.

Oh... well i definitely don't want to contribute to misinformation. I'll continue to do more research and post my findings. If you have any useful links, please do share.

[IThaJ0kaI]

How many more of these threads are needed here?

[Turbon8er]

How many more of these threads are needed here?

i don't remember seeing a thread specific to the entirety of the G50 suspension, if there is one please link it. Most of the ones i've found are people asking about a part here and there, but nothing laid out in an orderly fashion. Not to mention new product development. I feel like time is valuable and spending hours hunting down correct info could be time spent actually working on the vehicle. Maybe i'm over the top in trying to assemble all the information in one place. I know many of the folks that have been in the game for years already have the knowledge, but there are people new to the scene and it could possibly help them out. If this thread is totally rhetorical of this chassis forum, then the Mods can remove it. I was only trying to contribute.

And thanks btw, IThaJ0kaI, for your help in the other thread about the Z coilovers. The info was useful.

[smpresco9027]

Powertrix z32 front upper control links and Powertrix adjustable tension rods confirmed for fitment. Struts are Tokico HP blues with Epsilir springs. YOU MUST HAVE NEW HATS for the springs.

[N/A Q45]

I'm going to bet that the car feels much better after. ?

[Turbon8er]

Powertrix z32 front upper control links and Powertrix adjustable tension rods confirmed for fitment. Struts are Tokico HP blues with Epsilir springs. YOU MUST HAVE NEW HATS for the springs.

Nice!! I edited the title and never put up the pics of the past 2 months of suspension work i've been doing, lol, i haven't gotten them off my camera yet , but will post them soon!

Did you go with the z32 front struts and springs or g50? G50 top hats? What about the rear? Any before and after shots of ride height? How much lower is it now?

"i'm curious like a cat!" - Will Ferrel as Harry Caray

Thanks for Sharing!

[smpresco9027]

I used Tokico HP blues specifically for the 94-96 Q45 (HU2890A front, HU2892 rear). Springs are Epsilir springs for Nissan President. Was imported by another user here from Japan who never used them so I bought them. G50 top hats. The reason I got new is because the new springs' coil ends up in a different spot on the top hat than the OEM so they didn't fit right......and they were wore out. MAKE SURE TO GET AN ALIGNMENT. My tension rods were wore slam out and you could feel it through the steering wheel. New solid tension rods coupled with new tie rods from a few weeks ago = zero steering slop or lag. Last but not least the steering is smoooooooth and very direct.

[Turbon8er]

My Goal, set up a well-handling, yet comfortable car, sporting a mature ride height for daily driving. Sounds simple enough.


This is the morning i got finished with the motor/transmission swap (still vh45).


Factory ride height, blown struts. 19x8f/8.5r Ray's G35.
Front tires: Nitto Invo 225/40 , Rear: 275/40 Pirelli P-Zero Rosso (oem bmw 7-series) wayyy tooo BIG


Well... i was going to do the OEM Z32 drop, and even got a full used set locally. Then after hunting s14 tophats and such, with little success, i decided an easier route. Buy Coil-Overs, set the height and Ride. Already had a decent amount of money saved for the z32 tokicos i'd planned to use, so i contacted the guys at Urban Imports and they had one set of D2's for the G50 left in stock. I snagged 'em.
I've never owned D2's but have talked to several guys that have and they always liked them. They carry the reputation for being stiff, but i've always wanted to try them out, so i figured...


Spring Rate: F- 20k, R- 18k

Quick note, for some reason the front was too high, and the rear was too low. Swapping ONLY the strut bodies (for length), proved to give the perfect Ride Height adjustments. Plenty up or down front and rear. Figuring that out was fun.

When my car would hit 65-70mph, the front end felt like it was coming loose. Narrowing it down to the FUCA, and wanting to keep a civil ride, i went with the Z32 FUCA Whiteline press-in Urethane Busing set ($98). The only other 'soft' set were Z1 or Stillen, both close to $400. With the Adjustable kind, (from what i've read) they tend to loosen over time... and i drive too many miles each day to guess when that will surprise me.



What's in your OEM arm? .... not much



LOL.. so the directions were fuzzy on exactly which side was "the inner" side.. The answer: the inner arm, outer side.



Remember that Third-link?? Yeah, better get a set if you don't wanna drill out your shock. Just so happened my local junkyard had an early Q that somebody had mostly stripped. 10 mins, two bolts and i walked out with 91 Third links.



Front camber correction cost: $7. I felt like one side would be cambered slightly more 'in' than the other, after reading other people's posts. I just so happened to get the exact number to match them perfect (with one left over from the pack of 25). The big pack of washers are about 1/8" thick while the others (not pic'd) were about 1/16". Used a stack of 3 on each bolt, Driver's side, and 3 plus 1 thin washer per bolt, Passenger side. It got my front camber to ~1.4*. Not bad for only a few bucks.





But Yikes! what an angle! Probably shorten the height of the Third-link and FUCA once i get some more downtime. (taken before i put all the washers on)





Hmmm....



Annnnd.. the jack is stuck



Better.. but still gotta leave room for the New tires..



Don't forget about that ol' thing..



you're gonna do a lot of this






To correct Camber and Toe in the Rear, i picked up a set of UI's Newly released TruHart Control Arms.



I was going to stick with Whiteline for the urethane's dampening ability, and while i was telling the guys that i didn't want the harshness of spherical ends, they mentioned how the TruHart line used a hard durometer rubber. The cost difference, nearly both arm sets for one whiteline set. It was a done deal.



I only got the RUCA and Traction (originally said Toe, meant to get Toe rod), as i was told the traction isn't always needed(i meant to get the TOE rod). But after having to shorten the Traction arm to get the alignment within factory specs, i know the adj TOE rod would definitely help the angle of my dangle.





Go with a safe number from each end. Remember, these have opposing thread direction.







This is really a need for a metal Band Saw, to make a smooth precise cut. The Chop Saw was the closest i had at the moment to getting near to square, and it did a nasty job. Luckily I just bought a Tabletop disc/belt sander rig from Eastwood and it worked out perfect!



Actually took this before the TRACTION arm mod (not Toe), but you get the idea.



Had a slight rub on the Driver's side upon fitment, so i whipped out the file and got some clearance. The other side had at least 2mm.



275s.. huhuhahuh.. no way.. no WayY.. drinkin outta cups




Fix dat!! Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus, 245/40/19 Front, 255/40/19 Rear. holy shrit, i coulda just bought another 240!!



Drove to the street.. almost. Got stuck in driveway dip. Not ditch, DIP.



HOW STUCK WERE YOU?? So stuck, i had to put the spare on, just to get out. Not even playin.



I'd already used my PBM fender roller earlier to fit the 275s on stock suspension, so they weren't hanging on just the lip either.

After getting fresh tires on, ride height and alignment dialed in...







^that was the "Pink Moon" we had the other night. That shot took like 45 secs from shutter open to close.

I'm still trying to get the right dampening adjustment dialed in, but the handling is much improved, and should get better with break-in. It'd be nice to put'em on a shock dyno.. might happen. I've pretty much thought of getting Swift springs since before i bought the coils. The linear vs. progressive spring type is kind of a no-brainer, and a friend switched his D2 springs out for Swifts and say they ride better. We'll see.

btw. when i say daily drive, i mean i put 768 miles on this car in a week, so far. VIP style camber and drop would kill this car.

[IThaJ0kaI]

20/18kgmm is incredibly stiff, I wouldn't want to DD that haha. And an FYI, you got RUCA and traction rods. The TOE arm is the longest, most rearward arm on the car.

[Turbon8er]

20/18kgmm is incredibly stiff, I wouldn't want to DD that haha. And an FYI, you got RUCA and traction rods. The TOE arm is the longest, most rearward arm on the car.

Yeah, they're too stiff. I plan on going with a softer spring rate soon. I put the Tein type Flex (7k/7k) on my 240 and love the way they ride, so i'll be seeking a similar setup for the Q, once i figure out the comparable rate. Any suggestions?

Thanks for pointing that out... how the s*** i got those mixed up idk.. i've been so busy, i guess i wasn't paying attention. Well, now i'll definitely be getting the TOE arms, lol. The traction arms still have plenty of adjustment out, but now it makes sense why i had to shorten them. I feel like an idiot, haha .. C'est la vie.

[goody90q45]

Turbon8er.... This is a really good writeup on your search for the right suspension components and the mods you made. The pics add a lot.

[IThaJ0kaI]

20/18kgmm is incredibly stiff, I wouldn't want to DD that haha. And an FYI, you got RUCA and traction rods. The TOE arm is the longest, most rearward arm on the car.

Yeah, they're too stiff. I plan on going with a softer spring rate soon. I put the Tein type Flex (7k/7k) on my 240 and love the way they ride, so i'll be seeking a similar setup for the Q, once i figure out the comparable rate. Any suggestions?

Thanks for pointing that out... how the s*** i got those mixed up idk.. i've been so busy, i guess i wasn't paying attention. Well, now i'll definitely be getting the TOE arms, lol. The traction arms still have plenty of adjustment out, but now it makes sense why i had to shorten them. I feel like an idiot, haha .. C'est la vie.

My daily used to have 12/10s on it, i would 100% suggest that to anyone not looking to go super low or have super crazy fitment. They road like a dream, for being coilovers.(these were xusco zero-1)

I have 14/12s on the same car now, because i went lower/wide wheels and it rides a lot more stiff but still not terrible. If I were to do it again, I would probably do 12/10s and just make my rim tuck under compression. (these are bc racing)

[Turbon8er]

Turbon8er.... This is a really good writeup on your search for the right suspension components and the mods you made. The pics add a lot.

thanks man, i really appreciate the kind words!

My daily used to have 12/10s on it, i would 100% suggest that to anyone not looking to go super low or have super crazy fitment. They road like a dream, for being coilovers.(these were xusco zero-1)

I have 14/12s on the same car now, because i went lower/wide wheels and it rides a lot more stiff but still not terrible. If I were to do it again, I would probably do 12/10s and just make my rim tuck under compression. (these are bc racing)

i remember in another post you saying that your original setup was too soft, and when i saw the spring rate on these D2's, my eyes got real big...

Did you sell your other springs?

[IThaJ0kaI]

It was too soft for trying to run as low as I was, and for what I was building the car for(I had plans for it to be a drift sedan.) But now it has been decided that it is just my daily and would love to have the 12/10s back. Like I said, I would just make the rim tuck instead of poking a little bit.

But with the 14/12s I can ride pretty low and dont have to worry about the FUCA or the rim or anything.


No I sold the cusco coilovers to buy the BCs I bought.