Building a KA24DE for the rally car. Need your help!!!

[IanS]

Its finally time to build a DE for the Rally car. I picked up a long block for free. It came half assembled with a box of parts.

I have now discovered for sure that it has an S14 head on and S13 block. I had never noticed it before, but apparently the valve covers are different. I have the S13 cover that presumably was on the engine before it was pulled apart, but it will not fit the S14 head designe. I also seem to be missing the upper portion of the timing cover. My question is, what else is different? Which timing cover do I need? will it work with the lower timing cover?

Second question. I have a OE type head gasket for the engine already, but I am warey about using it. I will be using a set of Nissan Motorsports pistons and rods that (if my calculations are correct, will give me somewhere around 11:1 compression static, but It could be anywhere from 10.5: to 12:1. The question is, do I need a MLS head gasket? I really dont like them unless neccesary, they leak too often, and are very finicky. This being solely a race car, I dont want a picky head gasket, I need to be able to abuse it without worry. I feel like an MLS gasket would be more likely to fail during an overhead condition, where as the OE may just flat out fail. What is the rule of thumb for high compression and head gasket type?

Just for fun, here are some pictures of the motor, it just came back from the machinists today.

Block is bored .040 over, and lightly decked for flatness.





Head was hot tanked, miled for flatness, the valves seals replaced, and everything checked out.



Rods and pistons (Thanks Kenno470)
Just need to order rings and bearings once I get everything measured.



Check out the build thread if you haven't already.

official-nicoclub-s-rally-car-lets-go-p ... 57229.html

[danshaz82]

What about a cosworth head gasket?

[The_caveman]

I know for a fact the upper part of the timing covers vary from s13- s14

For example a s13 cover will leak oil on a s14 head and vice versa.

I do not know if there are any difference between diffrent models s14s timing covers

[Razi]

I don't know much about high comp KAs, but for my 8psi KA-T setup, I'm running OEM headgasket and it hasn't given me any trouble.
If you can find one, you can try a Cosworth gasket like Shaz suggested.

[Lobo240sx]

I'd suggest a Metal Head Gasket at least 1.2mm or bigger for a high compression engine. The stock gasket wasn't designed for that type of abuse in your case rally. You need a metal gasket to transfer the heat off the block into the head and out the exhaust for it to be efficient. You can get a copper gasket or use copper spray/copper compound to assist in the heat transfer.

[IanS]

What about a cosworth head gasket?

MMMMMM Cosworth

Where is the drool smilie when I need it?

I know for a fact the upper part of the timing covers vary from s13- s14

For example a s13 cover will leak oil on a s14 head and vice versa.

I do not know if there are any difference between diffrent models s14s timing covers

That is what I was afraid of/thinking. The question now is, can I mate an S14 upper cover to an S13 lower cover? Or will I need to convert fully to S14 front covers/water pump.

I don't know much about high comp KAs, but for my 8psi KA-T setup, I'm running OEM headgasket and it hasn't given me any trouble.
If you can find one, you can try a Cosworth gasket like Shaz suggested.

Well, I doubt I will be making anywhere near 8PSI of boost power levels, so in theory, cylinder temps/pressures should not exceed your setup. This in turn means I should be safe with an OE gasket. Good, Im cheap, and it will allow me to break the car in. If I feel the need, I can always swap it out later.

Or I could just make my own gasket out of cardboard and Hondabond.....

Next question. Who wants to donate an S14 upper timing cover and valve cover to the rally cause?

[Razi]

Mmm, cardboard.

I wish I could help you with parts, but even my spare S13 KA doesn't have a valve cover haha.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I run an OE headgasket on my KA-T setup as well. I'd suggest investing in ARP hardware while you're at it.

The factory head gasket almost acts like a fuse... you'll blow it before blowing something else more important/expensive. Going with a thicker one will sort of defeat the purpose of you buying higher compression pistons.

[IanS]

I run an OE headgasket on my KA-T setup as well. I'd suggest investing in ARP hardware while you're at it.

The factory head gasket almost acts like a fuse... you'll blow it before blowing something else more important/expensive. Going with a thicker one will sort of defeat the purpose of you buying higher compression pistons.

Who said anything about buying.......

Score

I was really wanting to do head studs. They make pulling/installing the head so much easier. I was thinking the same thing about the gasket being a fuse. Not to mention all the horror stories I have ehard about MLS gaskets seaping oil and whatnot.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah, the ARP head studs DO help a lot with installation and removal.

[danshaz82]

You guys using the OE gasket for your ka-t, I'm assuming your car doesn't see as much abuse as the rally car will. So would the OE gasket be able to handle the kind of beating Ian is going to dish out?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yes.
The only driving done on my car is beating.

[1KleenS13]

I would go with a OEM gasket and ARP hardware. Head gaskets normally blow because of bad tuning, low octane and over-heating. No sense in spending more money for a head gasket. If you do go with a MLS gasket you can drill the rivets out that hold the gasket together and spray copper coat between all the surfaces, that should keep it (help it) from leaking. With the MLS you can also remove a shim and bump the compression up a little more, at least with Cometics you can.

[danshaz82]

Yes.
The only driving done on my car is beating.

Fair enough. Just thinking out loud

[IanS]

You guys using the OE gasket for your ka-t, I'm assuming your car doesn't see as much abuse as the rally car will. So would the OE gasket be able to handle the kind of beating Ian is going to dish out?

I think it will. I have a very robust cooling system, and Im not making massive power. My biggest hurdle will be the tune. Getting it tuned conservatively while still making decent power will be a fine line.

I completely gutted and blocked off the S14 intake manifold I have here. No emmisions, no idle controls, no problems. All I should need is an IAT, a TPS, a MAP, and an RPM readout for the ECU. I will also be wiring in the clutch switch for 2 step rev limit and flat shifting.

Took all the measurements off the crank, rods, and main caps. Need to do a little math, and I can order bearings and rings.

I would go with a OEM gasket and ARP hardware. Head gaskets normally blow because of bad tuning, low octane and over-heating. No sense in spending more money for a head gasket. If you do go with a MLS gasket you can drill the rivets out that hold the gasket together and spray copper coat between all the surfaces, that should keep it (help it) from leaking. With the MLS you can also remove a shim and bump the compression up a little more, at least with Cometics you can.

I dont think I need any more compression. I should have plenty.

Anyone have a spare 248 cam laying around? I need one.

[Chris28]

Lot of differing info on the upper timing covers, I looked into it because I wasn't sure myself haha. General consensus seems to be match it to the head that you are using. I'm running an s14 block with an s13 head, s13 upper cover, and s13 lower cover, haven't had a problem so far, I never actually thought about all of the little differences though.

Like everyone else said, Fel-pro and ARP and you'll be golden. Good luck with your build!

[IanS]

Bearings, rings, timing chain, and APR head studs ordered.

Still looking for a valve cover and timing cover. Cmon, someone has to have one laying around.

[Razi]

I rarely see S14s, even in the junkyard.
If I get lucky and see one at the junkyard, I'll pick em up for you.

[asoomal]

What about a cosworth head gasket?

Gonna have to grind the surface till it becomes a mirror lol.

Felpro will hold.

Edit: You're going to use the Nismo (Carrillo) rods? Damn.

You know what would be sweet, not many people will agree with me.
A destroked, 2.2L KA with a fully counter weighted crankshaft.

86mm stroke with 170mm rods...a rod to stroke ratio of 1.976!

[IanS]

What about a cosworth head gasket?

Gonna have to grind the surface till it becomes a mirror lol.

Felpro will hold.

Edit: You're going to use the Nismo (Carrillo) rods? Damn.

You know what would be sweet, not many people will agree with me.
A destroked, 2.2L KA with a fully counter weighted crankshaft.

86mm stroke with 170mm rods...a rod to stroke ratio of 1.976!

They are Nissan rods, but they are balanced. They resemble stock rods, but in measuring everything, I found that the tolerances are much tighter.

[kenno470]

I just went through this for my build. Part of your head gasket decision will be based on how the head and deck were machined. A regular cut won't support a MLS gasket of any kind. You need a finer cut (more cuts per inch) to make the head as super smooth as possible, or it will leak every time. That's the mistake most people make when switching to a MLS style gasket. They simply don't have the right cut on the deck and head to make them work.

After much consternation, research and talking to guys who regularly race with this motor, we ended up going OEM. NOT OEM "type", but an actual Nissan head gasket. It makes a difference. Our source has been running his track only race motor at 25-30psi for six years without a failure, or a rebuild in that time. The deck is o-ringed and the head has a receiver groove, but with 30psi, that's a necessity. On a motor like your's, you should be able to run that OEM gasket up to 12.5:1 without any issues. With the stock-ish cams, your cylinder pressures shouldn't be high enough that it'll be a problem. Change the cam timing to increase cylinder pressure and you may want to re-consider. But I would guess you'd need to make an extreme change in order to affect it.
In the end, you have two good mating surfaces to start with. Torqued properly, an OEM gasket should do just fine.

Gimme a call if you want...

[The_caveman]

I rarely see S14s, even in the junkyard.
If I get lucky and see one at the junkyard, I'll pick em up for you.

I know where there is three near untouched s cars are in a junkyard
2 s13 1 zenki s14

I just don't have money or tools to take the covers off.

Everytime I rebuild one of my 240s I lose all my tools thanks to helpful friends who steal s*** out of my car while I'm gone

I haven't lived in a house for three years now so I have to build my cars at friends houses. Very frustrating situation lol @_@

[Razi]

[The_caveman]

Not sure the point of that little smiley but for the record because that read out like I am homeless I've been living in apartments no working on cars allowed

[IanS]

Not sure the point of that little smiley but for the record because that read out like I am homeless I've been living in apartments no working on cars allowed

I think the was at the disapearing tools. Most of the rally car was built in someone elses garage. Now that I have moved into a house it lives my garage.

[Razi]

Not sure the point of that little smiley but for the record because that read out like I am homeless I've been living in apartments no working on cars allowed

It was for your "friends".

[corn322]

Anyone have a spare 248 cam laying around? I need one.

Still need a cam? I might have one laying around.

[IanS]

I do. What do you want for it?

[corn322]

Umm... $10. Need any shims to go with it?

[IanS]

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