Anyone know if the 300zx final drive gears fit the 350z differential housing?

Your comments appreciated.

Confusion = Bad Choice. No it does not fit per Nissan Dealership.

BlackSmoke wrote:Confusion = Bad Choice. No it does not fit per Nissan Dealership.

The final drive gear and pinion... of a 300zx... fit in a 350z differiental housing...



or basicly can I swap the differential internals of the 350z with 300zx internals on my 350z?

i armed the help beacon! maybe someone will be able to chime in with an answer for you - with some support - be patientThanks-Ryan

in the mean time i'll see what i can find out

but, why?

350z... 3.4 final... 300zx 4.1...

If I can find another way to get a 4.1 final drive instead of forking out the wallet big time.

With higher number final drive come better acceration, shorter gearing, however topend is sacraficed as well a some fuel economy.

Makenski wrote:350z... 3.4 final... 300zx 4.1...

If I can find another way to get a 4.1 final drive instead of forking out the wallet big time.

With higher number final drive come better acceration, shorter gearing, however topend is sacraficed as well a some fuel economy.

Plus most 300zx drive train parts are bullet proof...

i guess since its higher than the 3.9 set you can get, but if you where to find one out of a 300zx wouldn't it be old and not as good

iron is iron... how do you know how old the iron in a new car is...the stress morelikely different.. and creep time(time for cracks to grow) is different...but if you find a used one in good condition..it more likely no to have cracks in it due to the stresses and heat it is exposed to. And lastly been tempered through extreme heat(driving), then cool down(parking the car)..over and over..which makes it stronger.

enlightened. cause then it would just fill the cracks when heated right.

no. if it had cracks the part would of failed already, because creep requires... a static load, heat, and time... all 3 should have been explosed enough for the part to fail..

but another occurance, is the crack angle can smoothen out and actually stop growing, but it only happens when the material is ductile(soft).. the rack and pinion are brittle, any cracks will just keep growing til failure.

and the tempering to make it stronger has to do with dislocations, and grainboundaries, and if it's a alloy, for instance, carbon and iron.. if it was cooled using oil or water during processing.. carbon gets caught out of solution...unstable, very strong... but very brittle(glass... shatters.)... after heating it back up... carbon will be release to form back into solution.. more stable.. very strong, less brittle... and then after heating for a while.. the alloy elements form together into rounder spheres... also known as spherite (sp).

Your head probably hurts now... if not then.. ultimately it's about dislocations in the atoms, it's where the atoms move easiest...where atomic bonds break and form new ones... in copper.. if you take a hammer and whack it.. you put a nice dent in it... that's because copper has many dislocations that are free to move around, but after hitting it many times with the hammer.. you notice the copper gets harder, it's because the dislocations in the materials are being trapped and can't move.. making it stronger... however copper is a fcc material so you can beat on it til it tears apart... not to say much but the atomic structure of fcc itself have more slipping planes.

Iron..especially a high carbon iron(AKA STEEL) will.. shatter when the hammer hits it... this is because the dislocations in the material is not free to move, so it just breaks into fractures.

so turning the brittle material which has many dislocation stopping sharp grains, to smoother grains.. like spheres... will allow the material to have some dislocation movement... which permits two types of deformations... elastic(the most desired effect)... which returns to normal state and plastic which is permament deformation(also perfered as a warning before failure)... deformation are cased by stresses..

ok.. I am tired of typing... I used some generalizations, if anyone is interested in this type of stuff look into a MET major...
Modified by Makenski at 8:08 PM 6/18/2008

oh i was thinking of something else then

Dasoupdude wrote:oh i was thinking of something else then

re-read the post.. sorry I added more to fill in;)

anyone have hands on experience, or common knowledge.. or the resources to answer this question?

ooof it aint lookin good!

pinions are hardened steel not iron. and carbon is extremely brittle but so strong it is not able to be broken by metal of any sort (not likely).

When pinions are forged they are extremely soft material, until after they are machined - hardness (heat treat) is done after the material is machined. and then the ring is made to match each individual pinion because not one is the same - which is why both are replaced if one is bad/damaged.

- Forging and Machining for the Auto industry (thats my profession)

rmezz13 wrote:pinions are hardened steel not iron. and carbon is extremely brittle but so strong it is not able to be broken by metal of any sort (not likely).

When pinions are forged they are extremely soft material, until after they are machined - hardness (heat treat) is done after the material is machined. and then the ring is made to match each individual pinion because not one is the same - which is why both are replaced if one is bad/damaged.

- Forging and Machining for the Auto industry (thats my profession)

and you get steel from where? iron & carbon.. so it's was a generalization as I said.. it's just usually refered as iron because steel is an alloy, and when you observe the microstructure all you see as iron and carbon.. and of course some other alloying elements... hardened steel is usually through a cooling process and then a tempering, such as quenching to make martensite microstructure.. carbon trapped.. unstable... and tempering.. to allow carbon to return to solution, cemenite. Additional hardening includes cold working or adding alloying elements... which in turn make dislocations harder to move, strength goes up, brittlity goes up as well.

but what you said is solid. carbon can be super strong in compression forces, but however weak in tensile pulling, and super weak upon impact. pinions are hot forged, which allows them to retain their soft nature, then after machining that are introduced to a hardening process as mentioned above.

But here in turn, I learned something from you. Ring and pinions are a couple, one goes.. so must the other. So Thanks.
Modified by Makenski at 8:12 PM 6/18/2008

i am so lost...

good place to be. lost is better than being found sometimes

Maybe this will help:(good or bad... who knows)

It's about materials and properties. It boils down to how the atoms form together, and how they move when they are stress by external forces.

Most often this form have a missing/extra atom, this is where bonds of atoms break easiest and move to form new bonds. The stresses locallize in this area that it is often called a dislocation, where the shifting in atoms are occuring. All materials have these....many many many of these. So many free to move dislocations means the material is free to form a new form.. often refered to a softer material. However, if another atom, often an alloying element takes the place of the missing atom.. it prevents the dislocation...basicly anything that stops dislocation...therefore material is now harder, but increasing the brittlity as well.

There is more... but then this forum will become a book, you can read about it if you like.. for instance... dislocation, grain boundary, cold work, hot work... or you can go for a MET major (shr)

actually pinions are Warm Forged..... They are pressed at only 1600 Fahrenheit where hot forging is 2300 Fahrenheit. The simple design is why a pinion is not needed to be hot forged. 4 stages to go from this - to this



We do Hot, Warm, and Cold forging.

As far as breaking down steel - no argument, you are correct.

Interesting Indeed what type of steel do you use while warm forging?

For general public: it's about the grain size...grains are just clusters of atom formations... often refered to as a crystals, these clusters or crystals are formed together in a single material.

In cold forging, the grains are squished, where in "heated" forging you maintain the grain size.

Desired effects of cold working is smaller deformed grain sizes.. grain boundaries can prevent dislocations from moving. "Heated" forging makes it easier to form into shape, and retain larger undeformed grains.

I would imagine you would have to do a warm forging to steels with estimated carbon concentrations of higher than 2 wt on the below graph, at 2300 you would be begin to liquidifying it.. but again if you add other alloys elements the Melting tempature changes, and this phase diagram would be useless for that new steel alloy


Modified by Makenski at 6:38 AM 6/19/2008

Wow, chat in this area is so much more insightfull than other areas wink wink.

But per Paul Sinclair at Nissan Motorsports, (whom I am on the phone with right this moment).

No it will not fit, the 4.11 ratio, BUT Nissan makes a 4.36 that Nissan puts in the new model Frontiers, that fits in the 350z housing. The part number is 38100-0C860 that retails for 539, but I can get the discount of course.

Interesting, but thanks!

I believe that 4.36 final drive model is H233B.. which can also be found on 01 to 04 pathfinders... or am I plan ole wrong?
Modified by Makenski at 1:04 PM 6/19/2008

No there is no wrong and right to that. I put the Ring set into this program called parts master, and it will bring up all the specifications and models that it fits and it didn't bring it up. BUT I did do a manual search and found that it IS a 4.363 BUT has a different Part number, Paul did not mention this part number as he did with the 38100-0C860, which lead me to believe that eventhough it IS the same ratio, it MAY not fit into the housing.

Picture

ok a bit fancier than what I used..

http://www.vibratesoftware.com...s.htm

I assumed since it had the same differential model number it should, be the same even if the part numbers are the same.

That is a good assumption, BUT if everything WERE exactly the same, Nissan would use the same part number.

Here is the illustration of the Frontier......

.......and the Pathfinder.......

there may be some differences. I am about to go home. I will check into it more tommorow.

Nevermind, I just found it after I posted. Look VERY VERY closly at the main gear. The Frontier and 350z both are on a 10 bolt ring. While the pathfinder is on a 9 bolt. So I guess you would have to put the Pathfinder diff in it also to make it work, not just the final gears....pic of 350z....

ok seriously im going to go home now

Let me buy you a beer if I ever get the chance. Thanks for your input.

I never doubt, just trying to confirm if the differential model # meant any or the web source any good... both are crap...

I don't have any good resources, nissan fast would be a good start however
Modified by Makenski at 8:54 PM 6/19/2008

fast is helpfull, you can download it off of a torrent. or just email me, considering I work for them lol. but yea ill hold you to that beer sometime

I consider myself thoroughly informed - and impressed. Good read here...!!!!!