2009 240Z build

[gmac708]

Time for an update.

We have a new addition to our family...My youngest son Evan purchased his first car. A 96 Civic hatch. Already had v-tec-swap-hack-up-with "most hardware missing" job.



It's a piece of work...but we got the air conditioning going, fixed the alternator, replaced the suspension and the stereo, removed the exhaust and installed header. We are waiting for cat-back exhaust and Evan is trying to figure out the wheels. Lots of fun and getting some quality time with him.



Anyway...that and Cameron's car have kept me away from Betzy. I did get a few things done today.

I am removing the original oil filter housing/water heat exchanger that comes stock with the engine. This is how it came.



I removed everything and purchased an adapter from Rickey at Raw Brokerage. Now you could just screw a filter to the block. It's a 3/4 X 16 thread (same as stock Nissan and Ford, Chrysler, Dodge filter).



But... I am going to use a remote filter for ease of filter change and my remote has a valve that will direct the oil to a cooler when it gets hot.
Here is the block adapter.



Here is the remote and the little bracket I made up. It bolts to the frame.



Filter access is now down here behind the front cross member.



The two bolts securing the bracket go through the frame. I also made up a little plate that sits on top of the frame to help protect it.



I made the hoses to connect the adapters...



And then the hoses to the cooler...



I don't have a cooler yet. The hose loops up around, in front of the FMIC for now. I'll figure something out...

Time for a beer...cheers *clink* happy 4th.

Gord

[evildky]

what motor mounts are those?

[gmac708]

what motor mounts are those?

Those are McKinny mounts. I powdercoated them black. They used to be red.

Update for today.

I finished up the plumbing under the intake manifold today.

The air chamber got an aluminum blanking plate installed. Those tubes were on the aft side of the airchamber and those are not going to be used. No power brakes.



I sealed the water tube openings that used to feed the oil/water heat exchanger by flattening the tubes and welding them shut. Best thing I could come up with at the time. Added a shot of paint to protact surface.



Here is everything back in place. Kind of busy in that area.



A little review. My best guess from what I have read and tried to figure out.

Here is the water system.

Red line is from rear of block going to heater. Purple line is back from heater and makes it's way back to water pump, by-passing the thermostat. This should heat up water quickly. Light blue line is cool water returning from radiator, waiting for thermostat to open. Yellow arrow is water out to radiator. Water can't flow until thermostat opens. Dark blue line is water flowing around head intake next to ITB's. It joins back up with green line which makes it back to water pump and also around the back of the engine over to the turbo's.



Here is the water for turbo cooling system. I think the flow changes direction with thermostat open.




Here is the vacuum system

The balance tube sits behind the Independent throttle bodies (ITB's). The green lines connect the air chamber to the balance tube. At idle, the air from the intake goes down dark blue line and is drawn through the AAC valve into the air chamber and then to the cylinders via the green lines and then the balance tube. In very cold conditions (-20C) air will also enter via the light blue line. This air regulator valve is partially hidden behind the air chamber. It closes at approx 60C. Red line is intake manifold reference pressure. This goes to the waste gate actuators, boost gauges etc. The air chamber has a few ports that can be used. These are almost always under vacuum relative to intake manifold, especially when you lift or close throttle. This is a good place to source the BOV and power brake vacuum, Anything downstream of ITB's is vacuum, upstream is boosted or pressure. Vacuum is relative and exists, even under boosted conditions. Balance tube has PCV valve for venting crankcase pressure back into intake. The thing to remember is that at power, above idle speed, all the air goes through the ITB's. Everything else is used for idle only.



OK back to assembly...

ITB's are next.


Intake went on next. Air chamber bolts to bottom.




View under manifold. everything was a good fit.



And that raps up this side. Still need to pick up some hose clamps, but that's about it.



Got the water lines back on this side. Maybe I should put some SS braided lines over here? I'll get the MAF's figured out first, then maybe some "bling".



It's starting to come together.

Gord

[BigTDogg (MA)]

Such an awesome build, loving the updates! 2 quick questions:



Is there a black silicone hose available for that compressor outlet?

And was there ever a PTU recall for the Skyline like the Z32 had? Your PTU appears to be very similar to the old style Z32 PTU.

[evildky]

I'm pretty sure you cna get a silicoln hose in teh correct diameter and the approximate angle needed (22degree?) although with the popularity of the RB someone most likley makes a purpose built hose

and I'm pretty sure the RB came with the same PTU asthe early VG but the recall was in the US only, which si why so many front cuts and pallet vg's come with the old style ptu

and I'm pretty sure it's the cams cas as well

[Coolwhip]

PTU is similar but the not the same. Haven't found problems with them amoung our customers.

[evildky]

PTU is similar but the not the same. Haven't found problems with them amoung our customers.

what si different? the wire connectors? themounting surface? they are both 6 channel transistors

[raremotive]

Once the thermostat opens a greater draw of flow is present in the yellow marked pipe, so the green marked lines will only go to the draw; it doesn't reverse direction.

The question is does lie whether if the thermostat lets a small amount of water through.... which would allow a small amount of draw to the rad through the yellow marked pipe....which would aid the green marked line... Or the green marked flow actually is sucked back into the block until the thermostat opens..or doesn't flow at all..

[RustspecS13]

PTU is similar but the not the same. Haven't found problems with them amoung our customers.

what si different? the wire connectors? themounting surface? they are both 6 channel transistors

The ground is on opposite sides and I think the order is slightly different. I swapped a newer ptu on my rb20 and it just took a few minuets and a new/re routed ground.

~Alex

[evildky]

I'm nto sure ont eh RB specific but genrally there si a small bypass somewhere that allows a small amount of coolant to get by until the thermostat opens, on the L6 the bypass si though the heater and turbo/tb cooant lines, and since i run no heater I out a restrictor int he heater lines to keep it fomr constantly recirculating the same hot coolant, I also put a restrictor in the turbo/tb return line to keep it form recirculating so much hot coolant as it's fed form the hot coolant in the head as well

[svairman]

Will you be putting a set of the headlight covers on there? I know its personal preference but I think they really improve the look of the front, im sure it improves aero a bit too

[raremotive]

^ I like the open headlights. By preference.

[gmac708]

2 quick questions:

Is there a black silicone hose available for that compressor outlet?

And was there ever a PTU recall for the Skyline like the Z32 had? Your PTU appears to be very similar to the old style Z32 PTU.

That hose is low on my priority list, maybe later on. I had no idea they were having problems with the PTU.

Will you be putting a set of the headlight covers on there? I know its personal preference but I think they really improve the look of the front, im sure it improves aero a bit too .

I like the open look.

Once the thermostat opens a greater draw of flow is present in the yellow marked pipe, so the green marked lines will only go to the draw; it doesn't reverse direction.

The question is does lie whether if the thermostat lets a small amount of water through.... which would allow a small amount of draw to the rad through the yellow marked pipe....which would aid the green marked line... Or the green marked flow actually is sucked back into the block until the thermostat opens..or doesn't flow at all..

Both turbo's feed the green line and it goes around the front to yellow arrow and around back...



...to "t" into dark blue line and then eventually to pump inlet.



Here is stock engine showing lines going fore and aft more clearly.



Maybe the line around front is for when you shut down and the turbo's cook off the water and the flow is more of a covection flow. Thermostat would still remain open and heated water would flow through radiator and cool and return to block...

I'm nto sure ont eh RB specific but genrally there si a small bypass somewhere that allows a small amount of coolant to get by until the thermostat opens, on the L6 the bypass si though the heater and turbo/tb cooant lines, and since i run no heater I out a restrictor int he heater lines to keep it fomr constantly recirculating the same hot coolant, I also put a restrictor in the turbo/tb return line to keep it form recirculating so much hot coolant as it's fed form the hot coolant in the head as well

Good idea. My turbo source water is from the left side of the block, opposite side as heater supply water.



I have read so many articles about RB's overheating. I want to keep it as close to stock for now. Hope it runs cool. I have read a few articles about eliminating the turbo cooling water hoses all together. Some say you are OK as long as you let them cool down or get a turbo timer.

...I worked this weekend and ended up not spending any time on Betzy.
Gordon

[raremotive]

I been building up a rb26 too. I been talking with a japanese tuner, he said to make sure to gasket match the coolant outlets coming from the head because the flashing left over from casting the head can impede flow. Second he said make sure to get all the air out, boiling coolant inside the head is bad news. I also been lurking UK and Australia forums, and I found a good number of successes with a air bleeding canister. It plugs into the the air bleeder then it goes into a canister swirl pot.. and back to the pump. Basically it allows air to bleed out continuously, instead of once with the bleeding procedure.

Then he said the rest is how you set up your rad, and most importantly tuning.

I also noticed you have an R32 block, so you have a short snout crank. The oil drive is only about 1/4 of a inch in contact with the pump; should be about 1/2". Many people had success with the RB32, but they didn't rev them crazy either. From reading around, the real enemy is air bubbles that get sucked and causes full blow cavitation. Most just make sure they have an accurate oil pressure meter. The more you know...

[evildky]

if you haven't already read up on stony's build you might want to, he started his first rb s30 years back and pioneered a lot of this stuff, his car has morphed a lot over the years as he has continued to chase out the weakness, he's on a lot of forums unfortunately not here

[raremotive]

I have actually, he used what I believe is called a GT cooling mod, used they did race with the RB... he ended up tossing this ITB's for a big single. This would allow him to remove the balance tube and plunge into the adapter piece to draw the coolant from there to be swirled in a pot and returned to the rad.

[RustspecS13]

Gordon if you ever have any ptu issues I have 2 or 3 I've pulled from j30s with the wiring connectors as well, so if you ever need one lmk.

~Alex

[mRodiek]

[img]

LOVE the fender mirrors, gives it an old-school look, as if the car isnt already lol

[gmac708]

if you haven't already read up on stony's build you might want to, he started his first rb s30 years back and pioneered a lot of this stuff, his car has morphed a lot over the years as he has continued to chase out the weakness, he's on a lot of forums unfortunately not here

One of my fave's over on HybridZ. Great wealth of knowledge.

The more you know...

could not agree with you more!

Gordon if you ever have any ptu issues I have 2 or 3 I've pulled from j30s with the wiring connectors as well, so if you ever need one lmk.

~Alex

OK

A little update.

I dropped my radiator and fuel tank with the guys down at Defined Autoworks. It looks like Logan, Peter and Alex have their hands full getting the new shop going. I ordered a few clamps and they are going to weld some drains on the the aluminum rad and fuel tank. I forgot to ask for the bonding lug on the fuel tank...guess I'll have to get that next week. I also picked up a clutch alignment tool from Advanced Auto for 2 bucks. P/N 14501. 1" X 24 spine fit the clutch perfect and the pilot bearing also fits. I tried on SR pilot bearing I had laying around. I guess they are all the same. It was too hot this week to think about pulling the engine and finishing up the clutch, so I finished a few loose ends up front.

I got the forward bulkhead covered up. I made up a plate and welded it in. I was thinking about putting an oil cooler over here but couldn't find anything small enough.





I figured the cooler should be mounted to the front air dam. I hate doing the fiberglass but that's where it is going.

I also started to fab up the brackets to secure the top of the FMIC.



Not quite done yet, but I should have them welded in by tomorrow...

That's it for now...things are getting busy around here...with Evan's Civic and Cam's 240SX...



I am whipped, time for a beer

Gord

[S13AL]

Your RB looks nice and cosy under that towel.
Hope you get it running soon.

[gmac708]

Your RB looks nice and cosy under that towel.
Hope you get it running soon.

Me too. I had the towel on it to protect paint. Lot's of crap flying around the garage lately.


Update

I got the brackets finished up on top of the FMIC. I used the nut insert I used for the ZG flares to attach the brackets to the cross support.





Turned out clean looking.





I started playing around with the MAFS and pulled the left fender off. This is something I have been tossing around for a while. I could stick a couple filters back along side of the turbo's or...go for the cold air intake. That might require cutting the inner fender out for routing two MAFS and filters.

Lot's of room forward of wheel...





I could notch out about 8" of the forward part of the fender and have more than enough room...

Things to consider

Later RB update might be single turbo, everything gets changed anyway.
Chip/computer and tune could eliminate MAFS. Do I do it now, or keep it stock.
Is cold air intake that important, I mean is it really worth it (HP gain)?
Air scoop / louver on hood for alternate cold air induction?

Going to think about it. Gord

[raremotive]

Later RB update might be single turbo, everything gets changed anyway.
Chip/computer and tune could eliminate MAFS. Do I do it now, or keep it stock.
Is cold air intake that important, I mean is it really worth it (HP gain)?
Air scoop / louver on hood for alternate cold air induction?

With your complexity of the build upgrading the rb26 should wait, especially while it's still in stock goodies too. This will let you shakedown your whole car and make sure you are getting every ounce of fun out of it.

I don't know why people call the kits cold air..there's no real gurantee it's colder. but in theory colder air lets the in cylinder be less det prone, which means more power. Another point of view is thermodynamics, one principle is the greater the temperature difference between the input and output of the system, the more work is outputted. This applies to a turbo turbine too. Pretty neat to think about, increasing overall efficiencies.

How you planning to go MAFless? Speed density? or just MAP?

[jem003]

I love this thread Gordon, Dreaming of a car in future. I been reading this thread about an 1 hour and 45 minutes and I didn't notice the time maybe someday i will buy a 96 civic hatch just like the car of you youngest son and my Dad teach me on everything, because my Dad is good in cars, I remember when I was a kid he always with him when he had to repair a car, and I remember the 1954 Chrysler Hemi an owner was a doctor and I like her, because she love her vintage car so much, and also she is so kind. anyway keep up the good work gordon, I can't wait to see the result of your work and I will visit this thread everyday to see any updates on your masterpiece

[SHIFT_COUPE]

Amazing. Just read it all. I was dreading getting to the end!

[Eikon]

Hey Gord,
Do you have a ballpark estimate on "start-up" day for the motor?
I've been meaning to get down to Columbus someday and check it out in person. I figure the day you fire it up for the first time would be a good one. You thinking it'll happen in August yet or maybe Sept?

[gmac708]

maybe someday i will buy a 96 civic hatch just like the car of you youngest son and my Dad teach me on everything, because my Dad is good in cars, I remember when I was a kid he always with him when he had to repair a car, and I remember the 1954 Chrysler Hemi an owner was a doctor and I like her, because she love her vintage car so much, and also she is so kind.

Sounds like a great idea

Hey Gord,
Do you have a ballpark estimate on "start-up" day for the motor?
I've been meaning to get down to Columbus someday and check it out in person. I figure the day you fire it up for the first time would be a good one. You thinking it'll happen in August yet or maybe Sept?

I hope to get it running by end of August but still have a few items to work out. I think once I get the cold air intake pipe and the wiring done it should be ready to start up. I'll keep everybody posted and... Everybody is always welcome to drop by.

I installed the fuel tank after the drain was installed. Needs the wiring done but that's about it.



The drain for the radiator is done as well.



I played around with the intake piping and have to wait for a couple more parts to arrive. That's about it for today.

Gord

[USsil80]

looking very good... quick question... how low is the radiator compared to the rack and pinion... the drain looks really low??
/2 cents

[evildky]

the early S30 chassis (240Z) had the straight across core support like this, the later S30's (280Z) had a lower coresupport to accomodate the larger radiator used in the 280Z, thats still higher than his crossmsmber and air dam but I'd have put the tap on the backside

[gmac708]

the early S30 chassis (240Z) had the straight across core support like this, the later S30's (280Z) had a lower coresupport to accomodate the larger radiator used in the 280Z, thats still higher than his crossmsmber and air dam but I'd have put the tap on the backside

It looks worse than it really is, but it is still in a spot where something could be kicked up off the road and knock it off. The air dam is 4.5" clearance at the center. The drain is at 6". The front cross member under engine and steering rack is at 4.5". The oil pan is about 4.25". I can always screw in an allen screw type plug to get an extra inch clearance. I have also seen the drains put in the lower radiator hose as well. Not a total loss yet...

Gord

[gmac708]

A quick update.
I had to extend the FMIC pipe on the R/H side. I don't know how I screwed up the measurement. When I secured the FMIC in the vertical position, the tubing on the right side was about 1/2" too short to connect to the intake manifold. I just cut off the old flange, made a new one a bit longer, and Peter welded it up for me. He also welded on the BOV flange.



It came out fitting perfect and everything should stay in place.




I also got my air filters and adapters from Tru Motorsports in Indy.
Two Kits p/n 12500302. includes AY-SB 70MM Airnx filter and rubber adapters. It did not include the aluminum flange for MAF's. Stock MAF flanges were 65mm and a little smaller bolt pattern. Jeorge at Tru motorsports figured out what I needed and sent them along with the filters.



I start working on getting those hooked up this weekend.
Gord