I've done lots of reading on the first start issue, but haven't found information that addresses my problem directly, and I could really use your help:

Intermittently, our 2003 QX4 with 133K miles doesn't start. Turn the key to start, dash instrument lights go off momentarily per normal, but no crank and no click audible within the car. It usually starts on the 2nd try of turning the key, except for recently, now taking 3+ tries, and occurring more frequently. When it then does start, it starts right up as per normal. No issues with moving shift lever out of Park.

I'm reading on RepairPal that a failing "starter relay" is 1 of 8 known problems with this vehicle: "Engine won't crank due to starter relay failure: The engine may not crank when the key is turned to "start" if the starter relay fails. This can be confused with a defective starter motor."

Is this "starter relay" the same as the N.P relay I've read about in this thread? NissanPartsDeal.com identifies a part as the "Relay-Starter" which says N.P (GRAY) JIDECO or NILES in the part description, Part No. 25230-C9962 and it's replaced by an updated part 25230-C996B. Given that it does subsequently start with gear shift staying in the same position, wouldn't a relay be more likely than the Park/Neutral safety position switch? Or is there another part that's the culprit?

Things I've checked: Battery cables are tight; battery was replaced 1.5 yrs ago, no slow cranking; original starter motor and solenoid; P/N safety position switch is securely mounted; shift cable both ends have their bushings and operates normally with no play; No codes; Never any wiring damage due to rodents & like; Vehicle only has the factory standard security system, which disables the fuel? and would not give this fault?


Secondary issue, that I don't believe is related, but I could be wrong. Even more occasionally, it will really bog down while starting (starter turns engine as normal, then abruptly slows down to almost nothing), I turn off, retry and it starts OK. This, I think, is the starter motor. But don't see how the two problems are connected. Should I replace the starter now, and other problem may be resolved (and where best should I buy a quality starter rebuild for a reasonable price)?

Thanks for all and any help.

Where I wrote no start, that means no crank. I turn the key, and nothing other than instrument light going out for a second or two, which it does normally.

The problem is escalating, occurring twice yesterday, one time it took about 10 turns of the key to start. It's my GF's car, a special ed teacher, and I'm concerned that it's going to leave her stranded somewhere at night.

Some more data gleamed yesterday. When it wouldn't crank, I checked under the hood with her turning the key, no sound there at all. I tried shifting to Neutral, same, no crank.

Does anyone have some advice, or can confirm that the relay marked N.P on the fuse box cover is the "starter" relay?

Thanks.

Yes, that is the relay. You may also see the term ignition relay used. Page SC-11 in the manual is the wiring diagram.

The relay will not cause slow cranking like you describe, tho. That will be a starter motor problem, a loose or corroded connection at the battery, or possibly at the starter solenoid.

I picked up an Advance Auto rebuilt about three years ago and it has worked fine. Probably as good as any of the parts stores in-house rebuilts, except maybe NAPA. You should be able to find a 20% off coupon online, maybe a bit better. Buy online, use the coupon, and select in store pickup. Should be under 75.00 before tax. They can do a load test on your battery while you are there, and check your charging voltage if you want.

I picked them because they have a lifetime free replacement warranty. Just make sure you keep the receipt.

If I remember correctly, I got the starter out by dropping it down and sliding it backwards towards the transmission, then did a little spinning and wiggling till it came ot. I did find it somewhat difficult to get my hand / wrench up on the solenoid bolt to unbolt the battery cable, so take a look and be sure you have a small wrench that works in a tight spot.

Thanks, that's good information on getting a rebuilt starter. I found a Duralast "Ignition" relay made by Wells at Autozone, and available as Wells product, but it is shown as a 4 connector relay while the factory relay in the N.P location is a 8 connector relay. I'll check the wiring diagram you referred to, hopefully that will clear up the confusion.

Alan, for your first issue, here is a simple issue that hit me at around 270K. My key was blunt. Simply put, several years of start sequences had rounded its sharp edges.
I had a new key made and the key would crank the vehicle at every attempt.

I kept the original key as well, for a spare while the new key went with the missus. In a weird turn of events, my "blunt" key would always start the vehicle whenever I used it.

Worth a look I'd say.

Thank you. Comparing the keys, her spare is in much better condition, and although there is minimal wear on the metal teeth, got me thinking about the transponder chip in the key, if that is somewhat intermittent. And it's easy to test, I'll swap keys.

If we still get intermittent cranking, I'm thinking replace the N.P relay with a new updated OEM part. The wiring diagram makes clear that 6 contacts are in use, so a 4 contact part from an auto parts store will not work. (Based on the time I listened at the fuse box behind the battery, when the key was turned and no crank, I didn't hear a click - that in my mind eliminates parts downstream from the relay. Could still be the ignition switch? Anyone see a problem with that logic?) One last factoid: there's no difference between the engine being hot or cold.

Update: With the other key, there were 2 times within a week where it wouldn't start the first time. I bought a new Nissan relay (15230-C996B) for the N.P "starter" position from a Amazon seller for about half the cost of buying from a local dealership. We'll see if it reoccurs, which could take while to be sure, as it had been months between occurrences until recently.

Closing the loop on this problem. It's been 4 - 5 months since I replaced the starter relay, and have no re-occurrences of the problem.

Mod: if you read this, can you edit the Subject line, add "SOLVED", and change "no start" to "no crank", that will make it more informative.

You got it chief, thanks for the update!

So, the problem started again 6 weeks ago, turn the key, no crank, usually on second try it would start. Until I was outside the car one time, when it took a minute of turning the key to start, before which, the loud click from under the hood was audible from 20 feet away. I knew then, not the relay again, but the starter was rapidly dying -- so we parked the SUV until I got a remanu part in [Rockauto, AC Delco, 336-1761 -- a remanu of an original Mitsubishi starter used on these vehicles.] I'll update this starter replacement thread with some notes.