it's not hard to do at all. i would know because i have done it to my s13 and well as two otheres if you want to feal the full force of the z32 brakes you need to put the rear. plus they look cool because the rear rotors are bigger then the fronts.

THE FRONT THE REAR

slownslurious wrote:You can install the brakes and keep the 4 lug hub they bolt up, you just wont have an E brake... you have to swap over the whole internal drum brake thing from the Z. its kind of a *****, and then when youre done with that you have to splice the E brake cable.

They look awsome. My problem is I want to swap rear but keeping the 4 lug. And definitely, I'd like to have e-brake too. madcowvert, do you have e-brake?

yes i do!!! its not hard to do at all...

I've had rear zbrakes w/ both 4 lug & 5 lug - both w/ ebrake option... you just have to do it right...

brokeAs240sx wrote:I've had rear zbrakes w/ both 4 lug & 5 lug - both w/ ebrake option... you just have to do it right...

then tell us, because unless you have custom made parts, I can't see how it's done.

tenkawa_akito wrote:then tell us, because unless you have custom made parts, I can't see how it's done.

Have had it for over a year. Only custom part was redrilling the rear rotor from 5->4 lug.

Got the set off a 90 300zx N/A - not sure if that makes a difference.

I had to first run 4 lug because my 5 lug rims didn't come in yet, so all I did for rear:

- remove old setup- install z32 ebrake lines - ran the same way it was on SCC.- took old z32 brake setup apart (removed hub, ebrake/dustshield part, and aluminum spindle)- put ebrake/dustshield parts onto stock spindle- put 4 lug hub onto ebrake/dustshield- install z32 calipers and rotors- bolted everything together

Everything ran fine like that. A couple months later upgraded to 5 lugs

- removed hub, removed ebrake shoes assembly so I could fit in the 5 lug hub (has a weird piece on the wheel bearing that requires removing ebrake to install)- put on 5 lug hub, put on ebrake shoes/assembly- reinstalled rotors (drilled 4 & 5 lug), reinstall calipers- did some adjustments - still need to adjust ebrake since I messed it up when reinstalling - doesn't grab as much as it should, but it's not as imperative for me since I have auto...

Currently running this setup...

**** Just reread your post, and saw you tried to put 4 lug hub into 5 lug bearing... I just put the 4 lug hub+bearing directly - there is a bolt that goes thru the dustshield to whatever that I just installed there w/ the 4 lug hubs and it worked fine as far as I can remember.

You must be missing a bolt or soemthing... because my friend who did the z rear brakes on his manual car has the s14 or whatnot rear hubs/bearings which do not have the spacer on teh bearing you mentioned (looks exactly like my 4 lug hub, but w/ 5 lugs) and his ebrake works like stock...

hmm...i'm not sure if running it like that is safe for the long haul. I'd rather err on the safe side and not have that upper pivot/spring retainer see undue stress or vibration. It could cause a premature failure.

And I know I'm not missing a bolt since I pulled the spindle and assembly straight off of a skyline's rear subframe. Even still had the stock rotors on (were worthless due to the rust. yay for brembo )

why is this being made so hard? there are no brackets or anything the only thing you need to fabricate is drilling the rotors 4 lug....

Well, when I take everything apart in a few weeks, I'll look (if I remember to) & see how everything is setup. I do remember a large bolt (the one u'd put thru the spacer, and that still had a place to be on the 4-lug setup I had).

I'll check my friend's setup when I get a chance also - we've been going autox & he does drift events regularly for the past year we've had the setup and everything's still where it should be... who knows.

ok this is very easy the hub is where the four bolts are right next to where the axle gos are.

1. you take your 240sx spindle (the big metal thing) and your 4lug 240sx hub 2. take the ebrake asymbally from the 300zx spindel

3. bolt the the 300zx ebrake to your 240sx spindle with that big bolt in the back .

4. put your 4 lug hub on and there you go 4 lug with 300zx ebrake no spacer needed

Ok, I sat down with a 5 lug rear hub from an S14 and did some mock up work and took pictures to demonstrate my reasons for wanting that spacer off the Z hub. For this demonstration, the 5 lug S14 hub will do. It has the same dimensions as a 4 lug S13 hub, but just has the 5 lug bolt pattern.

First off, the Z hub is on the right with the spacer clearly seen.



that peg on the Z spacer is for the spindle that the ebrake springs clip to and the drum shoes use as a pivot. it keeps the thing from rotating and vibrating violently.

I proceded to bolt the S14 hub to the Z spindle and dust shield and then put the shoe pivot in and bolted it up with it's nylon lock nut and washer. My first sign of problems was when the nut bottomed out because I ran out of thread on the stud. This allowed the pivot to move about freely. I took pictures to show you the range of movement I had with the pivot.





That's a lot of movement for a stationary part. I decided to go ahead and attempt to attach the drum shoe assembly to the dust shield and pivot. I ran into a problem when I layed the shoes on the dust shield.





You can see that with the nylon nut bottomed out on the back of the upright, the pivot sits too low. I couldn't get the shoes to come close to making contact with it. So I decided to try a different aproach. I disconnected the whole assembly and took just the dust shield and drum assembly and bolted them back together. The pivot was forced to sit off the dust shield.



You can see where I marked the gap with a red line. That gap is why you need that spacer. Without the pivot properly spaced, you will run into failure issues. From this point, I could have put the hub/bearing back on and reattached the upright and bolted it down. The tension from the shoes' retaining clips would have kept the pivot spaced out for the time, but those clips are small and thin. Given time, they will fail and you will have a frakked up rear e brake. And heaven forbid that were to give way with your car parked on an incline.

Now, there is a silver lining though. Now that I've had time to do some proper mock up, I can say that it IS possible with 4 lug hubs. Notice how much space is left between the top of the S14 carrier? You can easily fit some washers in there to space the pivot out properly. You won't have the pin on the spacer to keep the pivot from rotating and vibrating more, though. So that's a risk that would have to be taken to retain 4 lugs. Now, I didn't have a chance to mock up some washer/spacers to see if there is any potential clearance/fitment issues. And the depth one would need to space that pivot out is 1/4".

I hope this has shed some light on the subject, and if anyone feels they can space that out with washers, i don't guarantee that it will work, or be durable.

that hub ^^^^^ is from a twin turbo 300zx and they will not work on s13 or s14 due to that metal peace....

madcowvert wrote:that hub ^^^^^ is from a twin turbo 300zx and they will not work on s13 or s14 due to that metal peace....

The metal piece that is currently being referred to as the spacer? My n/a 300zx hub had that... been running that on my car for the past year and a half...

madcowvert wrote:that hub ^^^^^ is from a twin turbo 300zx and they will not work on s13 or s14 due to that metal peace....

that hub is technically from a skyline GTS-T. But it's the same as an N/A 300 and a TT 300. That spacer/hub is needed to make the e brake assembly work properly. That was the entire point of that post

Guys, I'm following this thread closely, so please keep it going. It looks like there's a misunderstanding and obviously I'm confused , but I hope you guys can sort things out, so other people can have e-brake without going through 5 lug swap. Doing 5 lug swap just for e-brake? That's something I don't want to happen. Thanks guys!!

tenkawa_akito wrote:that hub is technically from a skyline GTS-T. But it's the same as an N/A 300 and a TT 300. That spacer/hub is needed to make the e brake assembly work properly. That was the entire point of that post

Hmmmm, looking @ importnut.net install - look closely @ the pics of the 5 lug hub, doesn't look like it has the spacer (believe he's using s14 rear 5 lug hubs):





^ notice that image, there is a metal piece between the ebrake shoe tension stuff & the other piece, looks like it will hold to me.

That's exactly how my 4 lug hub version install looked like when I was running it... maybe you are missing that piece tenkawa? or am I just spitting out more mis-information or have bad eyes?

when i did my 5 lug i used the rear 300zx and there not like that the n/a 300zx hubs are just like s14 rears w/o that metal thing....

tenkawa_akito wrote:
that hub is technically from a skyline GTS-T. But it's the same as an N/A 300 and a TT 300. That spacer/hub is needed to make the e brake assembly work properly. That was the entire point of that post

BTW, this is what happened to one of the members when his e-brake broke. Scary...

zerothread/206877

damm what a bad one...... i got my whole set up from a N/A 300zx and it all fit just fine maybe youy would have a problem if you used the 300zx TT set up... i dont know what there using...

brokeAs240sx wrote:or am I just spitting out more mis-information or have bad eyes?

neither. I didn't realize the N/A Z had such differences in parts on the rear. But it explains a whole lot. The pivot point itself has to be different as well since the spacer off the TT hub isn't needed. This is actually pretty monumental information to learn, and I wish I had learned it before I went through all the jazz comparing the S14 and Skyline rear hubs. On the bright side, I know now to point people towards getting N/A Z parts for the rear to avoid the spacer issue in the future.

cool well now we all know something we dident know before ...

this thread is kicking some a**

GREAT!!! I'm glad to hear that z32 e-brake will work on 4 lug hub. I'll pursue this and get e-brake parts from N/A z32. Thanks guys for clarifying things up.

Guys, it's time for me to buy a master cylinder. I know I need to get Nabco, not Tokico, but what size? 1 1/16" or 1"? According to my research, 1 1/16" is the right one for me, but I just want to make sure. I'm replacing all 4 calipers w/z32 NA e-brake assembly. My front is 30mm aluminum. I'm looking at 90 300zx MC 1 1/16" Part#072-8766. Any input would be appreciated.
Modified by 94_240sx at 7:17 PM 11/27/2006

not to sure on the part number but i do know it is the bigger size.. good luck

madcowvert wrote:not to sure on the part number but i do know it is the bigger size.. good luck

Thanks. I think that's the right one. I'll get it soon. I bet you replaced master cylinder too. The thing is... if you upgrade both front and rear, you should have better brake feel with 17/16" MC.

you dont have to go with one or the other its a matter of preference. they will all function fine (as with the with stock one) but they do feel different.

as for the hub argument it is way easier to buy the whole assembly off a 300zx and use it with 300zx shocks or coilovers... no taking it apart and all that jazz, just bolts on and works once you crimp it onto your stock e brake lines (or have custom ones made, which they usually crimp anyway).

also how did that happen to his car when the e brake failed? youre supposed to leave it in gear with the wheels pointed towards the curb when you park on a hill...

slownslurious wrote:also how did that happen to his car when the e brake failed? youre supposed to leave it in gear with the wheels pointed towards the curb when you park on a hill...

momentary lapse of judgement? I know I've accidentally left my car out of gear on inclines before. Case in point, I was at work 3 years ago and our lot is at a very slight angle. I pulled the e brake, and thought I had it in gear. Turns out it wasn't in gear, it was in enough to look like it, but it popped back out, and the e brake cable bracket on the calipers had snapped off and the e brake wasn't pulled tight enough. The car rolled backwards, slowly, and came to rest in a runnoff formed into the lot about 5 feet away from where I parked.

SPL makes the best SS brake line I've ever used. And they won't break your bank either. Plus you can get lines that specifically mate a Z32 rear caliper to your S chassis at no extra cost.

And I can tell you one thing about function versus feel with the Z master cylinder. I drove MagikDragon's S13 around with full Z brake setup and 17/16" master and it's night and day from using an S13 MC. The S13 feels too on/off at times. It's hard to not lock the brakes up if you get on the pedal. I've noticed this heavily at auto crosses. When diving into a corner, I lock the brakes up 50% of the time, unless I start decelerating earlier. So from a safety stand point, a Z MC is needed with the Z brakes. Otherwise you're asking for trouble, or a car planted in some weeds near VIR.

5400th post!

for the hydraulic brake lines, yes, go with SPL, but what about mating the S13 mechanic E brake line to the Z32 ebrake? They don't connect, so you have to splice them somehow.

just get some Z32 e brake lines. you may have to route them in through the subframe or ziptie them down at points, but it's better than no e brake. I do know that the 2+2 Zs have a slightly longer cable than the 2 seater. I have a pair of 2+2s and one 2 seater cable. and the 2+2 is noticably longer.

tenkawa_akito wrote:And I can tell you one thing about function versus feel with the Z master cylinder. I drove MagikDragon's S13 around with full Z brake setup and 17/16" master and it's night and day from using an S13 MC. The S13 feels too on/off at times. It's hard to not lock the brakes up if you get on the pedal. I've noticed this heavily at auto crosses. When diving into a corner, I lock the brakes up 50% of the time, unless I start decelerating earlier. So from a safety stand point, a Z MC is needed with the Z brakes. Otherwise you're asking for trouble, or a car planted in some weeds near VIR.5400th post!

I've also heard that there's a slight difference between 1" and 17/16" cylinders and people prefer 17/16". The deal is if you get z32 calipers on all 4 corners, you better go for 17/16". That'll give you best feel and function according to my research. It's good to hear from someone who used both stock MC and 17/16" w/z brake setup. I'm getting 17/16" Nabco this weekend. Thanks tenkawa_akito.