Why Nissan NEEDS an Affordable RWD Sports Car

Post by **NolimitZ32** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:09 pm

Guys, as much as I agree with what most have said here about the need and desire I must say that in the whole we are but a drop in the sea and do not have as much pull as we'd like. With the world economy what it is legacy for consumable items such as mass transport have become non existent. IE, there a a few people on this forum that own Kias and Hyundais which now have become great cars, not just for mass transport but for a stitch of fun-to-drive as well. I dare say that most of today's Kia and Hyundai owners would have not in a million years seen themselves in one 10 to 15 years ago when these companies were producing worthless econoboxes. I may be wrong but the older I get the more pessimistic become about these things. Big money looks out for big money, motorsports used to sell cars in this country, now not so much. You don't see 95% of Camry drivers going to the dealership after a NASCAR win.

YouTube · Post by **ImStricken06** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:31 pm

nissangirl74 wrote:
It was a car designed for a 50-year-old. It’s for a midlife crisis. That’s not what we do.”
...said the rep for the company that built the Altima, the Maxima, the Murano, the Cross Cabriolet, the Juke, the Cube, and THE FREAKING PATHFINDER with a continuously variable transmission.
Every car you build with four doors and a CVT transmission is built for a 50 year old.

While you might not have built the Z for the over 50 crowd, that's the demographic that's buying. You've completely out-priced the younger segment of the population. They'll buy what they can afford, which is the BR-Z and the FR-S, and they'll love it because both are kick-a** cars and a ton of fun to drive. They'll build relationships with Scion / Toyota and Subaru because they will build cars that people like to drive. When those drivers reach 50, guess what's not gonna happen? They're NOT going to stop at the Nissan dealership and buy a Z. Why not? Because in the first 20 years of their driving experience, Nissan has never built something that was either exciting / affordable to them. They're going to stick with who has given what they've want.

In case you've forgotten, building bland low performance family cars wasn't what made Nissan famous. It was the 510, the Z, and the racing victories of the 1970s. Mr. K. knew what people wanted and he fought to give that to them. You should review your history books because what you built in the past is what made you great. As enthusiasts, we appreciate the cars of the past and that's why we stick around. We're just waiting for you and corporate to build us something to get excited about again. You'd better hurry though. Brand loyalty only lasts so long.

what nissangirl said needs to be heard. we need to buy a billboard in front of the nissan design team's building. i got $5 to start the donation fund lol

Post by **skydragoness** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:40 pm

Bubba1 wrote: - Does it last long enough to make it thru the warranty

Sounds like MINI

I pop in this thread every once in a while but I think Nissan is the new Toyota/Honda. They're being really cheap and careful. Since the Renault take-over I was shocked the Z and GTR were even made/brought back.

Post by **nissangirl74** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:35 pm

skydragoness wrote: I was shocked the Z and GTR were even made/brought back.

I don't fault them for this at all. Both of the cars are exceptional engineering wonders and are amazing to drive. They just happen to be out of reach for much of the population, especially the GT-R. Same reason why they didn't mass produce the Juke-R.

Post by **Bubba1** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:50 am

skydragoness wrote: I was shocked the Z and GTR were even made/brought back.

I agree 100%, Sky. Given Nissan's disappointing change of focus toward boring CVT-only transportation devices, it does makes one question how sports cars like the Z or GT-R got through their fun prevention department.

Post by **krash** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:43 am

And there is absolutely no trickle down into any other cars.

Post by **Hijacker** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:33 am

krash wrote:And there is absolutely no trickle down into any other cars.

This. Nissan did a great job of capitalizing on technology disbursement on its lines decades ago. Take the multi-link rear. It was used on every single RWD/AWD Nissan platform. Nissan seems to really compartmentalize the idea of parts-bin development. It was a great, effective cost saver, but I remember reading mismanagement of the strategy lead to Nissan's financial woes in the 90s. Obviously it wasn't the over-pricing of its cars to push them out of reach of their target demographs ($45k Z32 anyone? 25k S13?). So I have a feeling that the push against parts-bin has been a decree from Renault overlords in reaction to misconceptions of why Nissan was on the rocks.

Granted, I don't have balance sheets to pour over to prove one way or another what the true reasons are/were, but I just see Nissan repeating its history of over-inflation of price and missing the mark with their demographics. I know some analysts claim that over-saturation of key market segments was one issue Nissan had, but Nissan seems to have delivered a product line saturated in standard people pushers with no deviation from that formula.

Post by **Bubba1** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:57 am

I think I can sum up Nissan's recent corporate philosophy toward us enthusiasts in two words....

Post by **float_6969** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:14 am

LMFAO!

Post by **AZhitman** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:04 am

Joel, I'm totally using that.

Post by **dre1507** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:20 am

Is that a cruze's cluster? I drive a metric ton of them at work and always see that when messing around with the "manual mode".

Post by **MinisterofDOOM** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:03 pm

Bubba1 wrote:I think I can sum up Nissan's recent corporate philosophy toward us enthusiasts in two words....

Pansy-a** manumatics! Mine will shift when you tell it to regardless of whether it's a good idea or not--up OR down. I've locked up the rears by dropping a gear too many a little too soon on a few occasions. No harm done...street tires will break traction long before the engine will over-rev.

Post by **sx moneypit** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:26 pm

Bubba1 wrote:I think I can sum up Nissan's recent corporate philosophy toward us enthusiasts in two words....

Post by **frapjap** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:52 am

In this article, Nissan gets bashed in the comments. Hard.
Its not just us....

http://jalopnik.com/mazda-rewarded-for- ... 1456704134

Some excerpts:

Nissan President and Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn attributed the weaker than expected performance to a variety of troubles, chief among them weakness in many emerging markets and painfully expensive recalls.
Not mentioned: crappy cars, old designs, a horrible full size pick-up, and no real reason to visit a Nissan dealership.

#not even the GTR- go look how expensive they are now. Now look at what else you can buy for that money. The people with that sort of money probably don't want a GTR. They want a 911, or Audi R series car.

I agree, I can't remember the last Nissan that was interesting enough for me to even consider buying, and I've had 3 new cars in the past 5 years. Their mass market cars just don't have any appeal, the trucks are long forgotten about, and the poor 370Z has been neglected for what seems like decades (I know it hasn't been that long but the interior feels more 90's than current day). They really need to get off of autopilot and figure something out. These days they look more like a second rate Toyota.

Which is sad. The very thing that brought Nissan back from the edge of bankruptcy is what is killing them now. In the late 90s, they needed a beige wave, and they got it. Now all of their cars are faceless and they need to go back to making the unique stuff they did in the early/mid 90s. Take some of the beige profits and breath some life into their appliances.

Post by **MinisterofDOOM** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:17 pm

I do take issue with people bashing Nissan's truck lineup. Nissans CAR lineups (both brands) are increasingly hopeless, but that fact is in stark contrast to the brands' strong, focused truck lineups. Pathfinder rebadge notwithstanding, the Titan, Armada, QX, Xterra, and Frontier are strong contenders despite their age. Titan is still a better truck than the Ram because the Hemi is a big iron hunk of fail. And long-time standout Tacoma is really nowhere near as good as the Frontier anymore. And while Nissan deserves negative marks for going crossover with the Pathfinder, Toyota's hardly doing anything more useful with the 4Runner despite its continued BOF construction. At least Nissan still MAKES a midsize truck and related real-truck SUVs...something only Toyota can also claim these days (FJ Cruiser)

And the QX, once an Escalade-alike in terms of "Wait...you paid $70k for an interior from a Suburban?!?!?!?" is now a genuine luxury truck, if a very ugly one.

Post by **AZhitman** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:18 pm

MinisterofDOOM wrote:I do take issue with people bashing Nissan's truck lineup. Nissans CAR lineups (both brands) are increasingly hopeless, but that fact is in stark contrast to the brands' strong, focused truck lineups. Pathfinder rebadge notwithstanding, the Titan, Armada, QX, Xterra, and Frontier are strong contenders despite their age. Titan is still a better truck than the Ram because the Hemi is a big iron hunk of fail. And long-time standout Tacoma is really nowhere near as good as the Frontier anymore. And while Nissan deserves negative marks for going crossover with the Pathfinder, Toyota's hardly doing anything more useful with the 4Runner despite its continued BOF construction. At least Nissan still MAKES a midsize truck and related real-truck SUVs...something only Toyota can also claim these days (FJ Cruiser)

And the QX, once an Escalade-alike in terms of "Wait...you paid $70k for an interior from a Suburban?!?!?!?" is now a genuine luxury truck, if a very ugly one.

Amen to this. Well-said.

Post by **Bubba1** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:16 am

AZhitman wrote:
MinisterofDOOM wrote:I do take issue with people bashing Nissan's truck lineup. Nissans CAR lineups (both brands) are increasingly hopeless, but that fact is in stark contrast to the brands' strong, focused truck lineups. Pathfinder rebadge notwithstanding, the Titan, Armada, QX, Xterra, and Frontier are strong contenders despite their age. Titan is still a better truck than the Ram because the Hemi is a big iron hunk of fail. And long-time standout Tacoma is really nowhere near as good as the Frontier anymore. And while Nissan deserves negative marks for going crossover with the Pathfinder, Toyota's hardly doing anything more useful with the 4Runner despite its continued BOF construction. At least Nissan still MAKES a midsize truck and related real-truck SUVs...something only Toyota can also claim these days (FJ Cruiser)

And the QX, once an Escalade-alike in terms of "Wait...you paid $70k for an interior from a Suburban?!?!?!?" is now a genuine luxury truck, if a very ugly one.
Amen to this. Well-said.

Perhaps you guys have forgotten that Nissan's full sized truck line's reliability track record for many years, how can I say this nicely.... was well below it's 4 competitors (Ram is just the weakest one). Yes, they've improved over the last year or two, which is encouraging, but it takes time for the buying public to forgive years of a less than stellar reputation. Heck look at GM, they're building better cars now than in recent memory, yet have struggled because they've had to overcome decades of building cr@p. Perhaps a better way to view this situation is to enjoy the discounts on the full sized Nissan trucks until more people learn they are better, and pay more for them. Of course if Nissan's way of updating of their full-sized truck line is similar to what they just did to the Pathfinder, then I think all bets are off.

Post by **breadbox** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:16 am

Bring back Datsun. I would buy a 510 sedan or wagon. Its just gotta be functional and fun, not overloaded with useless tech driving up the base price. Also a car that anyone can work on with handtools would be nice too.

Post by **krash** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:21 am

They did, but not in the way you thought lol.

Post by **MinisterofDOOM** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:02 pm

Bubba1 wrote: Perhaps you guys have forgotten that Nissan's full sized truck line's reliability track record for many years, how can I say this nicely.... was well below it's 4 competitors

I'm going to assume you're quoting your beloved Consumer Reports, where yet again their conclusions fail to match the reality of actual owners. So, no, I haven't forgotten. I just know better.

Post by **krash** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:11 pm

Another thing, CUMMINS. I don't know why we're not super excited about this over here, but this is H-U-G-E. It will set Nissan apart from any other import truck (I guess just toyota). A Cummins Titan will do very well.

Post by **Bubba1** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:48 pm

MinisterofDOOM wrote:
Bubba1 wrote: Perhaps you guys have forgotten that Nissan's full sized truck line's reliability track record for many years, how can I say this nicely.... was well below it's 4 competitors
I'm going to assume you're quoting your beloved Consumer Reports, where yet again their conclusions fail to match the reality of actual owners. So, no, I haven't forgotten. I just know better.

Uh, CR's reliability ratings ARE based on actual owner surveys.

But I suspect if you do a little research, you'll find CR was not the only testing source to report the Armada and Titan had reliability issues for several years. The new ones appear to be doing better, but you cannot dismiss their past, which was my point.

Post by **AZhitman** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:22 pm

I wonder if this was what Mr. Palmer was referring to...

(This will be unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjPaNiwmOEQ[/youtube]

Post by **float_6969** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:20 am

I hope not. It's obviously supposed to be a street legal Deltawing, but it looks awful to me. The seating is gimmicky, and no hard top=no thanks to me.

Post by **RicerX** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:54 am

AZhitman wrote:I wonder if this was what Mr. Palmer was referring to...

(This will be unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjPaNiwmOEQ[/youtube]

Seeing this confirmed a couple things:

1) This is the "something a little more crazy" that he was referring to.
2) The Z35 and the BRZ fighter that have been brought up are one and the same.

With this in mind, we're going to see two powertrain options in the Z35. Turbo four will be one, and I say they will temporarily offer a V6 to appease the purists, though it may not last.

Post by **AZhitman** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:34 pm

Most likely. I'm guessing the V6 will give way to a hybrid version of the turbo 4, much like a mini version of the new GT-R powerplant.

Post by **Bubba1** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:14 am

AZhitman wrote:I wonder if this was what Mr. Palmer was referring to...

(This will be unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show):

I can sum up the design....

My first thought, well, aside from the above, was it seems like Nissan seems determined to justify the millions they wasted...I mean...spent on that Chevy engined delta wing project. I see it strictly as a styling exercise, and not a very attractive one.

Post by **MinisterofDOOM** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:58 pm

Is it weird that I like it? It's out there enough that it works. It's not just bad boomerang lights glued on a generic Franco-Japanese bodystyle. It's more like a streetable body on top of the deltawing's wheelbase. The moving center driver seat is pointless without a roof (and likely to crush your passenger's legs as soon as the door is opened).

The wheels are pretty horrible, though.

Post by **RicerX** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:55 pm

It will be hilarious watching the teenagers this car is aimed toward curbing the living s*** out of those ugly wheels every single time they visit a parking lot.

Post by **AZhitman** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:07 pm

MinisterofDOOM wrote:Is it weird that I like it? It's out there enough that it works. It's not just bad boomerang lights glued on a generic Franco-Japanese bodystyle. It's more like a streetable body on top of the deltawing's wheelbase. The moving center driver seat is pointless without a roof (and likely to crush your passenger's legs as soon as the door is opened).

The wheels are pretty horrible, though.

Agreed on all counts. I don't think it'll make production as a topless car, but think o this - if the door (not doors) is traditional, front hinged, 80-degree-opening, then they could cut into the roofline at the top to improve entry / egress. It actually makes a lot of sense.

Plus, when do we start looking outside the traditional 2-box and 3-box design for vehicles? I've been real impressed with the Elio (coming to market soon) and other small, light, efficient urban commuters.

Now, what does all this mean for Nissan's promise of a small, lightweight, affordable, rear-drive sports car? Well, it means looking back at a concept that never made production (the 2005 URGE concept http://www.conceptnissan.com/2003.shtml ... e-inspired design rears its head again in 2014, possibly hinting at a non-traditional platform.

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