flohtingPoint wrote:all that really matters is the following:
-Does it go like hell
-Does it NOT break every year/month/day
-Does it make awesome noises
-Does it make you smile

So, Nissan, about that VR38 in the mini-Z...

flohtingPoint wrote:all that really matters is the following:
-Does it go like hell
-Does it NOT break every year/month/day
-Does it make awesome noises
-Does it make you smile

Well said, but regretfully, we're talking about a Ghosn run Nissan here, who has some priorities above those including:

- Does it meet CAFE standards
- Does it last long enough to make it thru the warranty
- Does it make a profit.
- Can they make a crossover out of it?

Why I post on this forum:
The superb staff
The brilliant members
The outstanding meets and events


Note that Nissan itself is none of those reasons. Despite the talented designers and engineers in its employ, Nissan is a worthless company that churns out forgettable garbage for pathetic losers who ought to be riding the bus.

Funny how I used to say that about Ford and GM.

Oh, Nissan turns a profit?

CONGRATS. SO DOES PROCTER AND GAMBLE ON SOAP AND SHAMPOO.

Jesda wrote:Why I post on this forum:
The superb staff
The brilliant members
The outstanding meets and events

Spank ya, spank ya ver' much.

How much longer to Tokyo???

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default ... ryId=28657

I love how their example of ricey disgust would be considered pretty clean around here.

"pistonheads" is like 10 years late

krash wrote:"pistonheads" is like 10 years late

Pistonheads? Or Subaru and Toyota? And everyone else. Especially Nissan.

the article was all "woaaa theres this car that I bet you haven't heard of called a 200sx!"

krash wrote:the article was all "woaaa theres this car that I bet you haven't heard of called a 200sx!"

Dude. I gotta get me one of those!

frapjap wrote:

krash wrote:the article was all "woaaa theres this car that I bet you haven't heard of called a 200sx!"

Dude. I gotta get me one of those!

Wait, one of these???




(j/k, I know the article was referring to a newer one)

LOL!

Entertaining update from Palmer at Nissan:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/nissan ... 1453017133

Oh yes, he's doing this. 50-year-old man and Nissan executive vice president Andy Palmer is bringing the hurt. Let's hope he's got an industrial strength flamesuit, because this is going to be intense.

When asked about the rear-drive sports car market, Mr. Palmer rhetorically asked,

"Do we have any competitors?"
But he's well aware of the latest offering from Toyota and Subaru, winning the hearts of automotive journalists and consumers alike.

"...the Subaru [BRZ]? It was a car designed for a 50-year-old. It’s for a midlife crisis. That’s not what we do.”
Damnnn. He continued,

"You’ll see the answer to the midlife crisis. Except it won’t be for the midlife crisis.”
RELATED

Nissan To Show A BRZ Fighter Concept And Something More 'Crazy'
It looks like we may be able to expect some cool stuff from Nissan at the Tokyo Motor Show in November. A new report says they'll be showing off … Read…
Nissan is set to debut their new BRZ fighter concept at next month's Tokyo Motor Show. So where there's fighter concept cars, there's fighting words. Andy Palmer could be civil about this. He could be nonchalant about Nissan's devious plans. But instead he's letting his mouth write a check. Next month, we get to see if that check has any hope of being cashed.

From the comments section:
From the 2013 Maritz New Vehicle Customer Study (one of the industry's top syndicated studies):

BRZ average buyer age: 41

350z average buyer age: 55

Share of BRZ buyers under 35: 41%

Share of 370Z buyers under 35: 13%

Share of BRZ buyers 50 or over: 33%

Share of 370Z buyers 50 or over: 62%

Share of BRZ drivers divorced, widowed or separated: 9%

Share of 370Z drivers divorced, widowed or separated: 24%

<sigh>

Y'know, it'd be real easy, from that million-dollar corner office, to dismiss me (and this community) as a bunch of knuckle-dragging, uneducated, misinformed yahoos.

I'm not implying that this is how Mr. Palmer views us, because he *has* been kind enough to pop in and interact with the community. But we're not wrong on this one. Nope. Not even a little tiny bit.

And a year from now, regardless of the outcome, this thread will be my "I told you so."

On a side note: Mr. Palmer should probably leave the public speaking to the PR professionals.

First, "The Juke is the answer" and now calling the BRZ (one of the most youthful cars on the market) "a midlife crisis"? Holy crap.

^haha, I literally said the exact same thing to one of my friends on facebook. ohhhh nissan....

frapjap wrote:Entertaining update from Palmer at Nissan:

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/nissan ... 1453017133

Oh yes, he's doing this. 50-year-old man and Nissan executive vice president Andy Palmer is bringing the hurt. Let's hope he's got an industrial strength flamesuit, because this is going to be intense.

When asked about the rear-drive sports car market, Mr. Palmer rhetorically asked,

"Do we have any competitors?"
But he's well aware of the latest offering from Toyota and Subaru, winning the hearts of automotive journalists and consumers alike.

"...the Subaru [BRZ]? It was a car designed for a 50-year-old. It’s for a midlife crisis. That’s not what we do.”
Damnnn. He continued,

"You’ll see the answer to the midlife crisis. Except it won’t be for the midlife crisis.”
RELATED

Nissan To Show A BRZ Fighter Concept And Something More 'Crazy'
It looks like we may be able to expect some cool stuff from Nissan at the Tokyo Motor Show in November. A new report says they'll be showing off … Read…
Nissan is set to debut their new BRZ fighter concept at next month's Tokyo Motor Show. So where there's fighter concept cars, there's fighting words. Andy Palmer could be civil about this. He could be nonchalant about Nissan's devious plans. But instead he's letting his mouth write a check. Next month, we get to see if that check has any hope of being cashed.

From the comments section:
From the 2013 Maritz New Vehicle Customer Study (one of the industry's top syndicated studies):

BRZ average buyer age: 41

350z average buyer age: 55

Share of BRZ buyers under 35: 41%

Share of 370Z buyers under 35: 13%

Share of BRZ buyers 50 or over: 33%

Share of 370Z buyers 50 or over: 62%

Share of BRZ drivers divorced, widowed or separated: 9%

Share of 370Z drivers divorced, widowed or separated: 24%

Greg sugar-coated his response. I don't have to.

Here's what I get from Andy Palmer in this snapshot:

1) With respect to the "mid life crisis" argument, there are pots and are kettles in this article.
2) You're selling a sports car in a s*** economy and a s*** job market. It is far more likely that people looking for toy cars that can actually buy said toy cars are established in their careers and not hunting for jobs out of college, and guess what? That typically doesn't happen until after age 35. The reason for this is economical, numbnuts. Your flawed assessment of the market has everything to do with economics. The fact that you can apply it to age is merely a resulting coincidence of the economic factors.

I sure hope I can look at what happens in the Tokyo Motor Show and see that your company can backup this asinine comment about the whole "mid life crisis" car, Mr. Palmer. Last I checked, Subaru and Scion are actually selling their RWD two seater. In droves. Poke at it all you want. Nissan is losing its a** on the 370Z. Enjoy your moment of press. I hope you were sauced on martinis at the time of the interview. To us looking on, and especially those of us on this forum, having a $100k world beater supercar gives you ZERO reason to be cocky when you're getting your a** handed to you in the market of EVERYTHING ELSE you sell that's sports-oriented and costs less than a GT-R.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you, Mr. Palmer. After saying stupid s*** like that, you'd better f*** produce at Tokyo. We have spelled it out for you in this thread and your competition has spelled it out for you at Scion and Subaru, much less Ford and Chevrolet (SPOILER ALERT - NONE OF THOSE FOUR MAKES A JUKE AND MARKETS IT AS A SPORTS CAR).

I have been a big proponent of your brand for many years. I have had lots of reasons to defect. Don't drive the nail in the coffin.

/rant

Full disclosure: I don't have a problem quoting myself after Tokyo and eating my words. Make me eat them.

XenonSE-R wrote:2) You're selling a sports car in a s*** economy and a s*** job market. It is far more likely that people looking for toy cars that can actually buy said toy cars are established in their careers and not hunting for jobs out of college, and guess what? That typically doesn't happen until after age 35.

This. It's been proven time and time again that RECREATIONAL vehicle purchases go essentially unaffected by economic and job-market conditions. People who want "second" or "fun" cars are not the kind of people who are shopping for the bare minimum they can afford in tough times. Do not confuse "affordable" with "economical." Building affordable options just means you understand the target (in terms of both product AND audience) better than most. Yarises are affordable, but that's not why people buy them. They buy them because they're economical. If those buyers merely wanted an "affordable" car, they'd buy 20 year old Camries and Accords and never look back.

"Affordable" sports cars are not made affordable so they're within reach of jobless youth. They're made affordable so people will say "yes, that's an appealing toy." Absolutely, broadening the marketability of a car through price is huge. But that's not the same as being economical. You don't build a "sports car" with the intent of selling to 18 year olds who can barely afford it. You build a sports car with the intent of selling it to people who already own a family sedan and already have a car payment and already have financial stability, and would very much like to be able to justify buying a TOY. SPORTS CARS ARE TOYS. You CANNOT analyze the market for them in the same terms as normal cars. If you're trying to do that, it's a sign that you have zero understanding of the auto market and need a new job.

MinisterofDOOM wrote:

XenonSE-R wrote:2) You're selling a sports car in a s*** economy and a s*** job market. It is far more likely that people looking for toy cars that can actually buy said toy cars are established in their careers and not hunting for jobs out of college, and guess what? That typically doesn't happen until after age 35.

This. It's been proven time and time again that RECREATIONAL vehicle purchases go essentially unaffected by economic and job-market conditions. People who want "second" or "fun" cars are not the kind of people who are shopping for the bare minimum they can afford in tough times. Do not confuse "affordable" with "economical." Building affordable options just means you understand the target (in terms of both product AND audience) better than most. Yarises are affordable, but that's not why people buy them. They buy them because they're economical. If those buyers merely wanted an "affordable" car, they'd buy 20 year old Camries and Accords and never look back.

"Affordable" sports cars are not made affordable so they're within reach of jobless youth. They're made affordable so people will say "yes, that's an appealing toy." Absolutely, broadening the marketability of a car through price is huge. But that's not the same as being economical. You don't build a "sports car" with the intent of selling to 18 year olds who can barely afford it. You build a sports car with the intent of selling it to people who already own a family sedan and already have a car payment and already have financial stability, and would very much like to be able to justify buying a TOY. SPORTS CARS ARE TOYS. You CANNOT analyze the market for them in the same terms as normal cars. If you're trying to do that, it's a sign that you have zero understanding of the auto market and need a new job.

WOW! This x 1,000,000!!!! Everything I would have said. Is he out of touch with reality?

But hey guys, don't make fun of me but I recently purchased a Juke, lol.

g37s coupe = underpowered and heavy. how do i know? i owned it!
370z = too expensive compared to the competition
now lets name off the other cars people are buying: genesis coupe, bmw 1 series twin turbo, brz, etc.

hey nissan; dont insult our intelligence please.
playing name games with all the infiniti cars, turning the pathfinder into unibody puddle-runner, practically giving away the aramada, failing with the CVT technology, etc. we see the writing on the wall. nissan is the next big bubble to burst, with infniti getting wiped out completely, followed up by nissan hanging on by a thin string.
go back to the roots that nissan was founded on. quality. sportiness. affordable. as you stand right now, you are neither quality, sporty, nor affordable. if i was car shopping, a lexus is250, bmw 3-series, audi a4, (etc) being only a couple grand away from the maxima = what makes you think id take a maxima? you want to impress someone? DROP THE CVT AND START OFFERING DIESEL!!!

MinisterofDOOM wrote:SPORTS CARS ARE TOYS. You CANNOT analyze the market for them in the same terms as normal cars. If you're trying to do that, it's a sign that you have zero understanding of the auto market and need a new job.

BTW, last I checked, Mazda is still selling Miatas. Over a million of them. Just throwing that out there.

Keep in mind, the base model 370z is right at $30k, that is DANGEROUSLY close to an optioned out BRZ. And as far as diesel goes, the new Titan will have Cummins power

It was a car designed for a 50-year-old. It’s for a midlife crisis. That’s not what we do.”

...said the rep for the company that built the Altima, the Maxima, the Murano, the Cross Cabriolet, the Juke, the Cube, and THE FREAKING PATHFINDER with a continuously variable transmission.
Every car you build with four doors and a CVT transmission is built for a 50 year old.

While you might not have built the Z for the over 50 crowd, that's the demographic that's buying. You've completely out-priced the younger segment of the population. They'll buy what they can afford, which is the BR-Z and the FR-S, and they'll love it because both are kick-a** cars and a ton of fun to drive. They'll build relationships with Scion / Toyota and Subaru because they will build cars that people like to drive. When those drivers reach 50, guess what's not gonna happen? They're NOT going to stop at the Nissan dealership and buy a Z. Why not? Because in the first 20 years of their driving experience, Nissan has never built something that was either exciting / affordable to them. They're going to stick with who has given what they've want.

In case you've forgotten, building bland low performance family cars wasn't what made Nissan famous. It was the 510, the Z, and the racing victories of the 1970s. Mr. K. knew what people wanted and he fought to give that to them. You should review your history books because what you built in the past is what made you great. As enthusiasts, we appreciate the cars of the past and that's why we stick around. We're just waiting for you and corporate to build us something to get excited about again. You'd better hurry though. Brand loyalty only lasts so long.

Never go full retard.

Well said, Bex. Mr. Palmer's comments were certainly disturbing. At this point, the fewer quotes to the press he makes, the better. Ben Franklin said it best, "It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt ..."

The more he teases about Nissan's upcoming BRZ/FRS competitor, the more I cringe picturing it as an overstyled, FWD, CVT-only two seat Juke. But we must wait and see. Hopefully they will do it right.

We keep "watching this space" for something to happen, but Nissan STILL has not made us eat crow. I gave up hope a long time ago, but there is still time to prove me wrong.

AZhitman wrote:BTW, last I checked, Mazda is still selling Miatas. Over a million of them. Just throwing that out there.

Also, Mr. Palmer if you haven't noticed, there are quite a few Mazda owners here now. A good portion of our staff owns at least one Mazda. Mazda is STILL doing it right even today and they don't think that putting lipstick on a pig is the solution to everything. Fun is not coupling a CVT to a gutless engine and slapping a NISMO sticker on it. A sports car isn't a FWD CUV that is uglier than sin. Mazda knows this and that's why everything in their lineup is exciting, unlike the blandness that is 80% of Nissans current lineup.

Nissan: The new Toyota

I wouldn't hold my breath on being proven wrong. "This space" might be empty for a long time.

I'm hopeful, but not confident, that they'll keep their promise to let us in on any "breaking news."

I'd love to think that our well-meaning and constructive criticism wouldn't result in retaliative bypassing of such a large and influential venue, but it's happened before.

Sometimes, automakers pass their juiciest 'insider' info to the outlets that fall all over themselves with effusive (but empty) praise.

We aren't one of those outlets, and that won't change. This will be a great bellwether to assess how Nissan views us, as a community.

I think they underestimate how large a demographic we are. Its blatantly clear that they prefer bathing in the glory from the automotively-retarded fans on facebook.