I've been looking into LSx engines because I'm planning a swap into my Z32 and I was just curious about potential. Since most of the parts will be aftermarket, I should be able to save money by using the F-body package instead of the Corvette one right?

Also, is the gearing the same between the transmissions? or is one shorter than the other?

I'm currently planning out a budget and organizing everything into stages before I start purchasing parts.

thanks in advance

I suggest using an F-body pullout, yes.

You cannot use the Corvette transmission...your options are the F-body one or the GTO. That GTO is basically an F-body case with the Corvette internals (shorter gearing on everything but 4th and better synchros).

Throw that budget out the window if you want to do it right. You will never be able to plan for everything in my opinion.

thanks a ton cnichols, that's just the answer I was looking for

Not a problem...that's what I'm here for.

I'm currently putting an LS6 into an FD for a buddy of mine and we tried to budget even after I told him it was impossible.

Even though I had just finished mine, there was no way to remember all the little things that would be necessary. Even after giving a "Misc." amount of approximately $500, we went way over because I refuse to do it half ***.

Chris, what can you tell us about the available LSx motors year-by-year?

Is there a "preferred" year or model? How about the truck motors? What "donor" vehicles should people be looking for?

Some might disagree, but in order to get the majority of the needed parts and not have to hunt for odds and ends in order to piece together your swap, I recommend an F-body pullout complete with engine, tranny, accessories, etc. so that you have almost everything you need and don't need to do as much work.

However, truck engines are very cheap and are a good way to cut costs if you don't mind the hassle of tracking down a manual tranny (if that's what you want), the F-body accessories, LS intake manifold, etc.

Hopefully the list below will help in the search for the right engine for your project....

GENERATION III - I recommend sticking with the Gen III engines due to the large production#s and the resulting cost effectiveness.

LS1 - 5.7 (346 CI) - Between 305-350 hp and 335-375 ft·lb1997-2004 Chevrolet Corvette C5, excluding Z06 1998-2002 Chevrolet Camaro Z28, SS 1998-2002 Pontiac Firebird Formula, Trans Am, Trans Am WS6 2004 Pontiac GTO *97-98 Had Perimeter Bolt Valve Covers

LS6 - 5.7 (346 CI) - 385(01 Vette only)/405 hp and 385(01 only)/400 ft-lbs.2001-2004 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06 2004-2005 Cadillac CTS V-Series

*Basically the same as an LS1 but with better heads (243 head castings) a more aggressive cam, and LS6 intake manifold make up the power differences.

TRUCK ENGINES - STILL GENERATION III - 285-295 hp and 325-335 ft·lb

The truck engines are very much like the LS1/LS6 and are still classified as a Gen III engine. They are mainly iron with the exception of the LM4/L33, and as a result weigh approximately 80+ lbs. more. All the parts from the LS series can bolt on to these engines and is recommended for any swap as the accessories and intake manifold usually fit better from an F-body. The 4.8 and 5.3 can both be punched out to a 5.7 (346 Cubic Inches) simply with a bigger bore (the 5.3) or a bigger bore and the 5.3 crank (in the 4.8's case).

4.8 - LR45.3 - LM4, LM7, L33, L596.0 - LQ4, LQ9

LR4 - 270-295 hp and 285-305 ft·lb*Iron Block 2003-present Chevrolet Express 2500-3500/GMC Savana 2500-3500 1999-2007 Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra 1999-2006 Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon

LM7 - 285-295 hp 325-335 ft·lb *Most common 3rd gen LSx engine - Iron Block2002-2005 Cadillac Escalade 2WD 2002-2006 Chevrolet Avalanche 2003-2007 Chevrolet Express/GMC Savana 1999-2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 1999-2007 GMC Sierra 1500 1999-2006 Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL 1999-2006 Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon

LM4 - Identical to the LM7 in power/torque*Aluminum Block, limited production2004 Chevrolet TrailBlazer EXT 2004 GMC Envoy XL 2004 Chevrolet SSR

L33 - 310 hp - High Output version of the LM7*Aluminum Block2005-2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 4WD 2005-2007 GMC Sierra 1500 4WD

L59 - Flex Fuel version of the LM7 (power/torque same)2002-2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 2002-2006 Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon 2002-2006 Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL 2002-2007 GMC Sierra 1500

LQ4 - 6.0L (364 CI) - 300-325 hp / 360-370 ft·lb*Iron BlockChevrolet Express/GMC Savana Chevrolet Silverado 2500 Pickup, 3500 Pickup, Crew Cab, and Chassis Cab/GMC Sierra 2500 HD Pickup and Crew Cab, C3, Denali, and 3500 Pickup and Chassis Cab, 1500HD Crew Cab Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL Denali Hummer H2 SUT GMC Yukon Denali

LQ9 - 6.0L (364 CI) - 345hp / 380 ft·lb*Iron Block2002-2006 Cadillac Escalade 2002-2006 Cadillac Escalade EXT 2003-2006 Cadillac Escalade ESV 2003-2007 Chevrolet Silverado SS 2004-2005 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra Vortec HO Edition Only 2006-2007 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra VortecMAX Option

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GENERATION IV - Generation IV engines are very similar to Gen III and some parts can be interchanged. The Gen IV was produced with displacement on demand and variable valve timing in mind. Not all have these features, but they are available.

L76 - 360hp /385 ft-lbs. 6.0L (364 Cubic Inches)2008 Pontiac G8

L98 - 362hp /391 ft-lbs. 6.0L (364 Cubic Inches)2007-2008 Chevrolet Lumina SS 2007-2008 Chevrolet Caprice SS

L99 - 400hp /395 ft-lbs. 6.0L (364 Cubic Inches)*Derived from the LS3 and with Displacement on Demand2010 Chevrolet Camaro

LS2 - 6.0L (364 CI) - 400 hp/400 ft.-lbs.2006-2007 Cadillac CTS-V 2005-2007 Chevrolet Corvette 2005-2006 Chevrolet SSR 2006-2008 Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS 2004-2007 Holden Special Vehicles (all V8 models) 2005-2006 Pontiac GTO 2008-2010? Saab 9-7X Aero 2005-2006 Vauxhall Monaro VXR

LS3 - 6.2L (376 CI) - 430 hp / 424 ft.-lbs.

April 2008-present Holden Special Vehicles (all V8 models) 2008-present Chevrolet Corvette 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP 2010 Chevrolet Camaro

LS4 - 5.3L (325 CI) - 303 hp / 323 ft.-lbs.2006-2008 Chevrolet Impala SS 2006-2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS 2005-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP 2008 Buick LaCrosse Super *Aluminum FWD Block w/ LS6 Heads

LS7 - 7.0L (427 CI) - 505 hp / 470 ft.-lbs.2006-2008 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 2008 HSV W427

LS9 - 6.2L (376 CI) Supercharged - 638 hp / 604 ft.-lbs.*Based on the LS32009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1

TRUCK ENGINES - GENERATION IV

LY6 - 6.0 (364 CI) - Same as LQ4, but Gen IV.*Variable Valve Timing2007-present Chevrolet Silverado HD 2007-present GMC Sierra HD 2007-present Chevrolet Suburban 3/4 ton 2007-present GMC Yukon XL 3/4 ton

L76 - 6.0 (364 CI) - 367hp / 375 ft.-lbs.*Basically the Gen IV replacement for the LQ9*Variable Cam Phasing & Active Fuel Management2007-present Chevrolet Suburban 2007-present Chevrolet Avalanche 2007-present Chevrolet Silverado 2007-present GMC Sierra 2007-present GMC Yukon XL

LFA - 6.0 (364 CI) - 332 hp / 367 ft.-lbs.*Active Fuel Management*Late-intake valve timing system*Higher 10.8:1 compression ratio2008-present Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid 2008-present GMC Yukon Hybrid 2009-present Cadillac Escalade Hybrid 2009-present Chevrolet Silverado Hybrid 2009-present GMC Sierra Hybrid

L92 - 6.2L (376 CI) - 380/403 hp and 403/415 ft.-lbs. 2007+ Cadillac Escalade 2008+ Chevrolet Tahoe 2007+ GMC Sierra Denali 2009+ Silverado 1500 2008+ Hummer H2 2007+ GMC Yukon Denali/Denali XL

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Quick summary of the major engines and their compression ratios and GM part #s:

LS1...346c.i. 5.7liter 10.19:1 25534322LS6...346c.i. 5.7liter 10.46:1 12578104/12562190LR4...293c.i. 4.8liter 9.47:1LM4...325c.i 5.3liter 9.49:1LM7...325c.i 5.3liter 9.49:1 12562201L59...325c.i. 9.49:1LQ4...364c.i. 6.0liter 9.41:1 12575147/12575148LQ9...364c.i. 6.0liter 10.08:1 12499467

^ sticky! thats the most complete list Ive seen...

Question: can all of these use the same mounts? and all bolt up to an F-body or GTO 6 spd tranny?

cnichols wrote:
Throw that budget out the window if you want to do it right. You will never be able to plan for everything in my opinion.

Well, it really wasn't a budget as much as it was a parts list so I can put myself in the general area of how much i'll need for the basics. it's basically to tell me how much time i will be spending saving and allowing me to budget work time and project time accordingly. of course I know that's not including all of the extra nonsense that comes with hybridizations such as this one.

My project is a "cost is no problem" type...just time.

Anyone know of any good write ups or manuals for the LSx swap? I mean, I'm sure my buddy and I can do it on our own but a write up or some measurements will make this thing all that much easier. Anyone have any experience with Adlashwa's manual?

Also, how hard would it be to run some Ram Air with an LS1 in a 300Z? the LS1 has that nifty forward facing throttle body and you can get those slotted nose panels...I would think one could use a modified version of the F-body ram air box with an F-body filter and mount it up behind that nose panel, right?

hannibal wrote:^ sticky! thats the most complete list Ive seen...

Question: can all of these use the same mounts? and all bolt up to an F-body or GTO 6 spd tranny?

Yeah, I'll sticky it for sure....took me a little while to put it together.

All the RWD ones should have the same mounts but I can't guarantee that. Obviously, I would avoid the FWD versions (although you can probably use the heads).

They should all bolt up to the F-body and GTO transmissions...the Corvette one is something you will NOT want to attempt.

DJ Raijin wrote:
Well, it really wasn't a budget as much as it was a parts list so I can put myself in the general area of how much i'll need for the basics. it's basically to tell me how much time i will be spending saving and allowing me to budget work time and project time accordingly. of course I know that's not including all of the extra nonsense that comes with hybridizations such as this one.

My project is a "cost is no problem" type...just time.

Anyone know of any good write ups or manuals for the LSx swap? I mean, I'm sure my buddy and I can do it on our own but a write up or some measurements will make this thing all that much easier. Anyone have any experience with Adlashwa's manual?

Also, how hard would it be to run some Ram Air with an LS1 in a 300Z? the LS1 has that nifty forward facing throttle body and you can get those slotted nose panels...I would think one could use a modified version of the F-body ram air box with an F-body filter and mount it up behind that nose panel, right?

There are too many variables (cost of your pullout can differ greatly) for me to give you an accurate amount to budget. Do you want an aluminum or iron block, standalone or not, driveshaft material, mods, etc? I would say $5000 will be a good starting point to get your pullout purchased and most of your major items. Everyone is different so I don't know how anal you're going to be in doing your swap.

I'll try to get up a sticky in the near future of my swap. In the meantime, hit me up on AIM: midcnichols with any questions you have or search here in the Hybrid forum.

Ram air is worthless for the trouble you'll have to go to due to the radiator and low profile front of the 240. Just build a nice cold air intake with at least 3.5" piping and you'll be good to go. If you want to get fancy, build a Y pipe and have dual 3" piping going to each side of the bay.

I got a Z32 not a 240SX. I figure with one of those nose panels, I could use the F-Body airbox with an F-body air filter and get ram air. If this guy had a nose panel, I think he'd have ram air.http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=123551

If I had a 240SX, I'd be looking at either a VH45 or a 2JZ. Probably the VH45. I LOVE that motor but there's no aftermarket for it...otherwise it would be perfect (aside from no 6 speed...which I want just for kicks and giggles).

btw, you are getting added to AIM, my screen name is Messiahs Oracle, so if you see that name message ya, that's me. thanks a ton.

Sorry about that...forgot you had a Z32. I would definitely try to contact CRZ SWAP and any other Z32 guys for more detailed info and things they ran into.

cnichols wrote:Sorry about that...forgot you had a Z32. I would definitely try to contact CRZ SWAP and any other Z32 guys for more detailed info and things they ran into.

thanks again, you've been a great help

What clutch and flywheel did you use cnichols?

My first clutch and flywheel were stock (C5 Z06) and I am now running an LS7 clutch and flywheel combo (C6 Z06). I switched to the LS7 clutch when I installed the MS3 cam. I've never had a problem with either and the pedal feel is great.

hey chris, did you ever get to doing that in depth writeup you were talking about awhile ago...i'm still debating on whether or not to do this swap and i've been following your build and the rest of the info here on the hybrids forum but there's no exact build list, i know it's different for eveyrone on what part they want and whatnot but i'm just looking for a list of parts that i absolutely need and approx how much it's gonna cost?

if you want you can shoot me an email, that would be much appreciated.

have a quick question, while the majority of truck engines are quite easy to find for cheap, the issue seems to be finding ones with manual transmissions. I dont suppose you have any research on which truck engines came with manual transmissions or if there are any transmissions that bolt to the lm/ls series motors besides the t56. thanks,

I'd like to get all the numbers how much wieght would I be adding to my convertible vs the KA24 mostly balance. I can get a free 5.3L so that cuts cost dramatically for me I know how to fabricate and what not but I don't want to make it a front heavy muscle car. I'll just get a new Tremec so that I'll never have to buy another for power upgrade unless I get a used one for the right price. and when I say the weight I mean the dressed fan to flywheel KA vs the fan to flywheel cast iron Chevy.

I got everything in multiple for the chevy so thats where the real sell point is also the wieght vs a rb25det would be good.

Beercandrifter wrote:have a quick question, while the majority of truck engines are quite easy to find for cheap, the issue seems to be finding ones with manual transmissions. I dont suppose you have any research on which truck engines came with manual transmissions or if there are any transmissions that bolt to the lm/ls series motors besides the t56. thanks,

Don't know if they ever did to be quite honest. I would stick with the T56...this eliminates any clutch problems you might have and it's tough to find a stronger one. Bite the bullet and get a T56...you'll be glad you did.

Arabrockermang wrote:I'd like to get all the numbers how much wieght would I be adding to my convertible vs the KA24 mostly balance. I can get a free 5.3L so that cuts cost dramatically for me I know how to fabricate and what not but I don't want to make it a front heavy muscle car. I'll just get a new Tremec so that I'll never have to buy another for power upgrade unless I get a used one for the right price. and when I say the weight I mean the dressed fan to flywheel KA vs the fan to flywheel cast iron Chevy.

I got everything in multiple for the chevy so thats where the real sell point is also the wieght vs a rb25det would be good.

You'll never notice a difference, trust me. You'll be too busy pedaling the throttle trying to make it stay straight. You could put two LSx engines up front and I'm willing to bet it would still be fun to drive. Move the battery to the trunk and forget about it.

Lsx engines turning ricers into racers for 10+ years

Very good sticky, also do keep in mind not all LS1s are equal...

GENERATION III - I recommend sticking with the Gen III engines due to the large production#s and the resulting cost effectiveness.

LS1 - 5.7 (346 CI) - Between 305-350 hp and 335-375 ft·lb
1997-2004 Chevrolet Corvette C5, excluding Z06
1998-2002 Chevrolet Camaro Z28, SS
1998-2002 Pontiac Firebird Formula, Trans Am, Trans Am WS6
*97-98 Had Perimeter Bolt Valve Covers

Even thought those are the specs, the 01-02 Camaro/Fbody is the IDEAL LS1 pullout. It not only has the ls6 intake manifold, oil pump, better heads, and similar ('free, very important upgrades'... especially going with a cam later) it also has the transmission in the right location (shifter wise - all fbody ls1s do). The GTO takes some modification for the transmission to work correctly. Nothing along the lines as trying to the use the corvette trans or something lol, but still takes some modification as the shifter is too far forward. They also removed EGR from the 01-02 LS1, which is another emission nonsense hurdle you can skip (they compensated with a smaller cam). Granted you can just remove it and the AIR and have it turned off in your system anyways, its just nice to not have to deal with.

Im planning on swapping a LS engine into a '94 240sx convertible at the end of the year. My question is if the stock rear end of the 240 will hold the power from a LS block?
I also saw that some of the people who have already done this swap have purchased kits from SIKKY or somewhere else. How worth it would be to purchase a kit like this as oppossed to fabricating the parts yourself? I have access to almost any tool or machine that I would need. I also will have help from a friend of mine who has already swapped a carbuerated 350 into his s10, so fabrication shouldnt be an issue.

Since no one has answered this for you, yes. The stock rear end will hold the power. I'm running a stock rear end on my race car and have been since 2003 with a 396 LT1.
I tried out the J30 rear end, and the skyline rear as well and actually broke both of them.

For fabrication, if you can then do. Buying the parts pre-made is an expensive option for those who cannot make their own parts. Plenty of write ups on here about how to make the mounts and other parts, including my original how-to thread. (I'm assuming that's still around lol)