What MAF will do 1000whp?

[Yellow4g63]

Lightning Maf translation

The map for the Lightning in Nistune looks a little different.

[Darius]

What are the units of the vertical axis on those plots? 0-100% of what? MAF capacity? That doesn't help the PFC users much

[meet07]

wonder if you could use the ford lightning maf with the apexi safc??

[SullivanRacing06]

lol, try it

[Bernard]

What are the units of the vertical axis on those plots? 0-100% of what? MAF capacity?

You are correct.

[gawdzilla]

What are the units of the vertical axis on those plots? 0-100% of what? MAF capacity? That doesn't help the PFC users much

you are probably on your own to do this, Darius. like i said above you might need to just buy the lightning/cobra/sct MAF, put it in and log the voltages it outputs into your datalogit 0-5v as you drive around while running off your original rb25/z32 maf. that way you can compare the new MAF voltages apples to apples with your nissan maf, and you'll have your new air flow chart that can be extrapolated to higher flows.

it's probably not that hard to put the lightning/cobra/sct maf as a blow through somewhere in series.. just need some silicone couplers.

the problem with contacting SCT for their numbers is that if they give you the numbers, it means nothing to the PFC world. so the best way to do it i'd imagine is to log voltages on the SCT while using your PFC with nissan MAF so you have PFC airflow numbers to compare to. after doing some driving, you'll have a lot of new SCT voltages that correspond to a nissan MAF voltage and airflow. for example, 3.1V on the SCT could be 4.2V on the nissan MAF @ the identical 6000 units of airflow, etc etc
Modified by gawdzilla at 1:58 PM 12/7/2009

[WhatsADSM]

you are probably on your own to do this, Darius. like i said above you might need to just buy the lightning/cobra/sct MAF, put it in and log the voltages it outputs into your datalogit 0-5v as you drive around while running off your original rb25/z32 maf. that way you can compare the new MAF voltages apples to apples with your nissan maf, and you'll have your new air flow chart that can be extrapolated to higher flows.

it's probably not that hard to put the lightning/cobra/sct maf as a blow through somewhere in series.. just need some silicone couplers.

the problem with contacting SCT for their numbers is that if they give you the numbers, it means nothing to the PFC world. so the best way to do it i'd imagine is to log voltages on the SCT while using your PFC with nissan MAF so you have PFC airflow numbers to compare to. after doing some driving, you'll have a lot of new SCT voltages that correspond to a nissan MAF voltage and airflow. for example, 3.1V on the SCT could be 4.2V on the nissan MAF @ the identical 6000 units of airflow, etc etc

Modified by gawdzilla at 1:58 PM 12/7/2009

x2.

So years ago in college when I was too cheap to pay for a new nissan MAF setup and an SAFC... I did something similar with some home brewed electronics.

I ended up using a GM MAF (i.e. Hitachi), and what I did was drive with the Hitachi in blow through and the stock RB20 MAF in draw threw. I then logged the voltage from the RB20 with the frequency from the Hitachi. Captured all that data and plotted it in excel with Hitachi on the x-axis and RB20 on the y-axis. Drove around under various conditions from idle to partial throttle to full throttle in each of the gears. Only took a few minutes to get a few thousand data points.

After I had a plot in excel I just had it fit a line through the points. In the end it is not perfectly linear and I think I ended up with a 3rd order polynomial, that fit almost perfectly.

Then I just removed the nissan MAF and had a perfect equation of how to get the hitachi to match the stock Nissan.... including how to extrapolate out. But yea from there I could just scale the values however I pleased.

In the end it worked great. Idled perfect, had perfect part throttle and had ~500whp worth of range (could have been more if I got the camaro or corvette MAF)

[l0nestar]

A lot of great info in here now!

[gawdzilla]

x2.

So years ago in college when I was too cheap to pay for a new nissan MAF setup and an SAFC... I did something similar with some home brewed electronics.

I ended up using a GM MAF (i.e. Hitachi), and what I did was drive with the Hitachi in blow through and the stock RB20 MAF in draw threw. I then logged the voltage from the RB20 with the frequency from the Hitachi. Captured all that data and plotted it in excel with Hitachi on the x-axis and RB20 on the y-axis. Drove around under various conditions from idle to partial throttle to full throttle in each of the gears. Only took a few minutes to get a few thousand data points.

After I had a plot in excel I just had it fit a line through the points. In the end it is not perfectly linear and I think I ended up with a 3rd order polynomial, that fit almost perfectly.

Then I just removed the nissan MAF and had a perfect equation of how to get the hitachi to match the stock Nissan.... including how to extrapolate out. But yea from there I could just scale the values however I pleased.

In the end it worked great. Idled perfect, had perfect part throttle and had ~500whp worth of range (could have been more if I got the camaro or corvette MAF)

cool. looks like my theoretical MAF programming actually works in real practice. Yes, Excel is your friend. Use it to draw the line of best fit to give you the data points beyond what your current Nissan MAF can do. Give it a shot Darius. I'm sure other PFC users will love you for it.

[Darius]

I am beginning to lean that way more and more as I dig further into this. I have found almost all of the data and how it relates to calculating load in the PFC, but the MAF reference table is getting on my nerves.

Sean with SCT provided me with the VQ plot for the BA3000 MAF sensor. As you can see, it has actual flow data associated with voltages.

[Darius]

Calculation confirmation pending...I want to make sure my numbers are right before doing a writeup.

[stevespeed]

Oh wow, this is pretty intense in here.

Great data though guys, some one throw a plot up here when they are done, I am just curious to see.

scatch that, internet loaded up slow. I See them now,

Well I have yet to play around with it, but as far as I know working with a MAP sensor isn't really that difficult, it would be a descent double check to MAF system at the least if not just cool to see whats going on, only thing that sucks is with MAP you need (or atleast should have) 1 temp sensor in the intake system to do the correct calculations to bring it back to speed density.



http://www.google.com/url?sa=t...1yHcg

Great little write up for those who are curious about it, IDK this is nessacarily on track with what you guys are doing but if you can rig it up and get the data, its a good triple check.

yeah IDK exams are making head spin, I am going to sit the rest of this discussion out before I say something stupid. Modified by stevespeed at 2:04 PM 12/15/2009
Modified by stevespeed at 2:05 PM 12/15/2009

[Darius]

There sure is a lot of speed density discussion in here for a MAF thread LOL!

[WhatsADSM]

Those calculations are also aimed and the GM PCM which does not have a true VE table. Much of it was how to convert from GMVE to absolute VE. Yea good writeup but almost no application to this thread.

To actually use a speed density to correlate to the MAF you would need (besides an overall scalar) to know absolute VE of your setup and make sure you had 0 leaks between the MAF and IM. Again not really practical to this thread, especially since it is aimed at trying to keep the MAF system.

[stevespeed]

oh yeah exactly I just thought it would be another good check, I like MAP, but I also have had hell and 1/2 with MAF sensors, those calculations are to deal with a MAP sensor only. After seeing this thread though, I am not really feeling the need to hop over to MAP anymore.

[sickness14]

Great info!

Is there any established method of making more than 500whp map based? Without having to do experiments, Using an er34 pfc of course.

And yes I've read through the entire thread.

It looks like i'll end up going with the Selin dual maf translator, twin Z32 mafs, and a Greddy y-pipe if i can find one. which is REALLY hard to do right now, i cant find anyone that has them.

heres the selin maf translator

http://www.selindesign.net/electronics.html

Modified by sickness14 at 3:52 PM 1/18/2010
Modified by sickness14 at 5:21 PM 1/18/2010

[Darius]

I have the numbers for the big MAF sensors figured out for the PFC. I am hesitant to post them since I won't be able to verify that they work as a plug and play, but I will be more than willing to help someone try it out.

sickness14 - do you want to be the test car for this? There's really nothing to lose. You can always resell the MAF if this falls on its face, not that it will

[sickness14]

I have the numbers for the big MAF sensors figured out for the PFC. I am hesitant to post them since I won't be able to verify that they work as a plug and play, but I will be more than willing to help someone try it out.

sickness14 - do you want to be the test car for this? There's really nothing to lose. You can always resell the MAF if this falls on its face, not that it will

As of right now, i think im going to just try and get the car running with a single walbro, and a Z32 maf and see what i can make out of it. after some time ill upgrade the fuel system further and then deal with the MAF issue at that time. either big maf, or twin Z32's. Thanks darius!

[Darius]

Good idea. I keep forgetting that your RB isn't running yet. Any other takers? I don't know of my fueling will be enough to justify the expense right now.

[sickness14]

Good idea. I keep forgetting that your RB isn't running yet. Any other takers? I don't know of my fueling will be enough to justify the expense right now.

What are you using for fuel setup by the way? specifically the pump/s.

Id like to have mine set up like this:

-800cc deautchwerks inj.-Greddy rail-aem FPR-8 feed line split into two for both ends of rail-6 return line-twin in tank walbro's

[Darius]

I originally installed a Denso Supra TT pump when I did the swap so I didn't go crazy with my injectors since the pump would only support about 650cc's per injector anyways. So I have Deatschwerks 650cc's and a Denso Pump. Nothing fancy at all, not even an adjustable FPR.

Once I max out the maf with this setup, I'll probably have to bite the bullet and do a MAF and fuel system upgrade. With that I'll get into some top feed 1000cc injectors, new rail, lines, SARD FPR w/gauge, and a Bosch 044 (or two )

[sickness14]

I originally installed a Denso Supra TT pump when I did the swap so I didn't go crazy with my injectors since the pump would only support about 650cc's per injector anyways. So I have Deatschwerks 650cc's and a Denso Pump. Nothing fancy at all, not even an adjustable FPR.

Once I max out the maf with this setup, I'll probably have to bite the bullet and do a MAF and fuel system upgrade. With that I'll get into some top feed 1000cc injectors, new rail, lines, SARD FPR w/gauge, and a Bosch 044 (or two )

awesome. how much power did you make with your current setup with the 650's, z32 maf, and denso pump?

[Darius]

Haven't had it on a dyno yet. I had a tuning snafu with my wideband that I caused me to go back and retune a bunch of stuff.

This summer, my goal is to max out the MAF and dyno it for some numbers.

[sickness14]

Haven't had it on a dyno yet. I had a tuning snafu with my wideband that I caused me to go back and retune a bunch of stuff.

This summer, my goal is to max out the MAF and dyno it for some numbers.

Sounds good fellow RB brethren. haha is yours a neo?

[S14-NEO]

HECK NO his aint no NEO...hes not down with the NEO CLICK...hehe

[Darius]

hahaha when I got my motor, there were no NEO's in the US

[sickness14]

hahaha when I got my motor, there were no NEO's in the US

HECK NO his aint no NEO...hes not down with the NEO CLICK...hehe

lmao. how many neo's do you think there actually are in the US? I mean is it really that rare?

[Darius]

I'd guesstimate there are less than 100 NEO's in the states now. Six years ago when I did my swap, standard RB25's were probably less than 100-200 in number let alone the NEO RB25.

So yes, they're that rare

[S14-NEO]

wondering if mine will stsill be considered a NEO after im done with it..hehe

[Darius]

As long as you have the NEO head, you're golden