What do you guys want??

[aleph1]

I tend to believe that huge extra injectors will start to puddle in the intake manifold, will they not? I dont know if Im comfortable with complicating an already somewhat complex procedure by adding more parts. It will probably be cheaper with the extra injector setup, but I would rather pay extra to just get bigger main injectors and an AFC or something.

Rosan Fitting...I had no idea what this was, so I took it upon myself to do 30 seconds of research- Is it some sort of threaded insert system?

[WDRacing]

Ticktak,The SAFC is only used when upgrading injectors to larger ones. The point to my whole system is to keep your stock injectors in place while using a secondary injection system that comes with a tuneable ECU. So you can increase fuel flow proportionally to boost. Yes you can add more boost, you just make a small adjustment to the ECU I give and your golden. If you want to add larger injectors instead of using stock you can. Thats when you would use the SAFC. When I get my kit done and take pics everyone will see how simple it is.

aleph1, The base kit only uses 1 subinjector, not nearly enough to worry about pooling. The upper stage kits will use either 2 injectors in the IC piping or 1 per intake runner. The injectors are controlled by boost so there won't be any puddling. If it were a system that the injector just sprayed 1 constant volume you might run into pooling problems. But not with my setup.

Yes a rosan fitting is a threaded type of fluid union. Very common on turbo's over here in Japan.

WD

[aleph1]

Your kit gets more intriguing every moment. Your setup's reliability and power making abilities will be veerrry interesting to see....I cant wait, WD. Especially on the extra injector system...

I will be in the market for turboing my 240 early next year. Does this coincide with your launch? Also, I know this is a vague question, but will I be able to boost my 240 with no internal work, 1 mile above sea level, with 91 octane with your base kit?

[Tictakman]

can u tell use what style manifold you are gonna sell with the kits?

Zak

[Tictakman]

I forgot to add,

if you need a "test" 240sx for the turbo kit I'm your man!

Zak

[aleph1]

I forgot to add,

if you need a "test" 240sx for the turbo kit I'm your man!

Zak

Im sure hes gonna test em "in house." lol

Quit trying to get stuff for free =)

[cosmo]

WD-

Are you gonna sell just strait parts too? I'd still like to build my own(I cheap) but your management solutions sound really cool.

So if I could get those parts just by itself, that would be sweet

[nikn]

i second that

[toki]

<-- E kit guinea pig

i hope. =)

[WDRacing]

The mani is log style for the base kit.The parts will be for sale seperatly.My base kit is meant for people who don't want to do any internal mods.

WD

[fiznat]

Im not as much worried about pooling with this system as I am about fuel distribution. Our intake manis were designed to flow only air, not fluid.. so there is no guarantee that each of the cyls. will get equal amounts of "extra" fuel each time. I'm not saying that the system doesnt work, there are lots of setups that have run this system with a lot of success (see these cars: http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html and here http://www.sdsefi.com/features/oct01240.htm - although I'm not too sure about the 2nd one, I think Adam either blew his car up or he is selling it, I cant remember which), but the technique is kinda crude... Corky Bell says in his book (Maximum Boost: Designing and Installing Turbocharger Systems) that extra injector setups should be limited to about 8 psi, and that it is not really an ideal method.

I dont mean to shut down the idea at all, Im just opening up the discussion on the topic here. Too many people (Im not saying anyone specific) are all too willing to just jump on the newest and cheapest without thinking or researching at all. Check Corky Bell's book out, and do some looking around before you make your decision, that's all.

WD, please let me know if I got anything wrong about your setup.

[SHiFT]

yeah I like you bringing this up. It might distribute properly but somehow the secureness of having 4 injectors spraying evenly rather than 1 spraying sits rather nicely. I suppose you can customize it the way you want though, we'll see what WD has to say.

[SloS13]

Hey WD, are you the same guy that was talking about coming out with a water/alc injection kit? If so, whats the status. If not, sorry for confusing you. thx

[DbD]

What is the estimated date of completion? I would also like to know some more about you extra injection system. I feel that if the injectors are placed far enough away from the cylinders, there is no choice for it other than to atomize (sp?)

Is there any way you can offer an equal length SS manifold?

Oh is there going to be a SOHC kit available?

Please keep us informed!

DbD

[MikeMurphy]

Why extra injector instead of a hacked MAF? I would have thought a hacked MAF would work far better!

[JPRempe]

Im not as much worried about pooling with this system as I am about fuel distribution. Our intake manis were designed to flow only air, not fluid.. so there is no guarantee that each of the cyls. will get equal amounts of "extra" fuel each time. I'm not saying that the system doesnt work, there are lots of setups that have run this system with a lot of success (see these cars: http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html and here http://www.sdsefi.com/features/oct01240.htm - although I'm not too sure about the 2nd one, I think Adam either blew his car up or he is selling it, I cant remember which), but the technique is kinda crude... Corky Bell says in his book (Maximum Boost: Designing and Installing Turbocharger Systems) that extra injector setups should be limited to about 8 psi, and that it is not really an ideal method.

I dont mean to shut down the idea at all, Im just opening up the discussion on the topic here. Too many people (Im not saying anyone specific) are all too willing to just jump on the newest and cheapest without thinking or researching at all. Check Corky Bell's book out, and do some looking around before you make your decision, that's all.

WD, please let me know if I got anything wrong about your setup.

Air is a fluid...

[aleph1]

Why extra injector instead of a hacked MAF? I would have thought a hacked MAF would work far better!

Doesnt work too good for S13s....

[Nathan]

As well as not being good for power levels as high as the extra injector, also not as easily tunable as an AIC.

[WDRacing]

Ok fella's...where do I start. The extra injector idea has been run on my Skyline for a few years now. The manifolds are very similar, I've also done this mod on several SR20's. Which has a intake mani also very similar. I'm glad you guys are concerned, cause it means you actually give a damn. There's no way I'm going to sell a bad product.

The stg 1 kit uses one injector in the IC piping. With the car being at 4 psi of boost by the time the injector comes on the fuel will atomize quite well and mix throughout the intake runners. I'll be tuning everything with a wideband and knockmeter. If the motor knocks at all I'll know about it.

For the big boost kits, the injectors get mounted on the individual intake runners with a seperate fuel rail. If the individual doesn't want to install the injectors, I'll have intakes available with the fuel rail already mounted.

Yes I'll be making equal length turbo headers. Yes they will be available with a kit. No they will not be reay soon.

The base kit with the log mani, which will work just fine, goes into testing on my car in January.

Not that I would ever doubt Corky Bell, but the book was written years ago. I personally know quite a few guys who run staged secondary injectors for up to 28 psi. And these guys just throw in fuel and add boost with no tuning.

I'll have dyno printouts and drag strip runs for everyones viewing prior to selling any of the kits. If your looking for an example of a successful secondary fuel rail setup, check out Shaun Carlson's 1000+hp 2.4 Mopar.

No question is to small guys, if your worried about somthing, chances are your not alone. Maybe I didn't think of everything, Thats why I put this thread up in the first place. I'm just like you guys. A car enthusiast whose addicted to boost.

WD

[WDRacing]

Another thing I can do for testing is to wire up 2 EGT gauges. One on the #1 and one on the #4 exhaust runner. That way I can see if one cylinder is running leaner. If theres a problem with distribution, the #4 will have it.

WD

[240marcuSX]

it sounds like a lot of modification to stock parts, like the intake manifold for the upper stage kit, and an injector in the IC piping. but as long as it comes with some good instructions, it shouldnt be too hard. how much will your stage II and III cost??

[JPRempe]

it sounds like a lot of modification to stock parts, like the intake manifold for the upper stage kit, and an injector in the IC piping. but as long as it comes with some good instructions, it shouldnt be too hard. how much will your stage II and III cost??

And adding to his question, will the Stg 1 kit be abale to be upgraded to the Stg 2/3's with little to no modification? (Or is it still too early to really say just yet?)

[TopStreet240]

What exactly are you trying to get out of making a turbo kit that has only been half assed more by the Honda boys. You are trying to convince an entire web full of enthusiasts that you have the perfect setup for the needs people have. The way that I see it, if you are going to spend any time or effort on a turbo kit, you should really try and get SOME quality into it. A $17 Saab BOV and a DAMN LOG MANIFOLD!! I don't know who is trying to convince you that AIC's are cool but WTF? (not to say that AIC's are not CHEAP alternatives for MAP SENSORED cars).

I don't want to even see this crap *** Skyline, if that's what you were running. When you have a Skyline, if that is the route that you take on that specific application, then there was a serious lack of thought put into it. Did you also put Dual Mitsu 14B's on it to? I would be HORRIBLY scared to see that thing on the road...

You screwed up the most important part about a JANK turbo kit. If you are going to put a turbo on a car that does nothing else than give you bragging rights with you friends, you should raise the price $100 and include an actual BOV on there. Then people with these kits can at least REV on people and try to scare them out of racing, because these total efficancy lacking kits are going to have a hard time putting anything out.

Sorry to be harsh, but if any one ever wants to race and tells me that they are running one of your kits, it's going to be hard for me not to laugh.

[toki]

just remember you even made that post in about 6 months...that's all i've got to say.

[AelSic]

Hey TS240 where is your kit for sale at? Are you afraid that WD might take some business from you and people may spend less money than what you guy's charge? His stage 1 kit is the only one that will feature the log style manifold and if you have read this or any other of his posts WD is trying to make his stage 1 a AFFORDABLE true bolt-on kit. A bosch BOV is perfectly fine for less than 10 psi anyway.

[Nismo_Freak]

blah blah blah

Dude... in case you haven't noticed there are TONS of quick cars running log style manifolds. For cost effectiveness you can't beat a log style manifold unless an OEM turbo manifold bolts up to your engine.

You tout about efficiency... do you run your engine a few quarts low to reduce windage? Do you use copper spacers on your spark plugs so that they are facing the intake ports? Theres ALWAYS something you can do to improve your efficiency, and it's only gonna cost more and more to do it. People on NICO aren't all millionaires else we wouldn't be posting about KA's ... we'd be complaining about our GTRs destroying our Holinger sequentials on the drive to your concubines house.

Also, you slag dual Mitsu turbos... why? Due to their inherant lack of efficiency? Thats why people also invest in that little thing we call the intercooler. You can have all the inefficiency in the world as long as your intercooler is capable of cooling the charge temps.

[TopStreet240]

Are you afraid that WD might take some business from you and people may spend less money than what you guy's charge?

I am not worried WHAT so ever about business being taken away. If I made Crap turbo kits for cheap I might be worried. I am interested in the market of cars where people are willing to pay for QUALITY.

Remember there is CHEAP, RELIABLE, and POWERFUL. Everyone knows that you can't have all three. I prefer to provide reliable, high-horsepower setups.

[JPRempe]

I am not worried WHAT so ever about business being taken away. If I made Crap turbo kits for cheap I might be worried. I am interested in the market of cars where people are willing to pay for QUALITY.

Remember there is CHEAP, RELIABLE, and POWERFUL. Everyone knows that you can't have all three. I prefer to provide reliable, high-horsepower setups.

You have a lot to learn grasshopper...

[TopStreet240]

do you run your engine a few quarts low to reduce windage?

If running your car low on oil is your idea of EFFICIENT, I would hate to see your version of RELIABLE.

[Nismo_Freak]

If running your car low on oil is your idea of EFFICIENT, I would hate to see your version of RELIABLE.

Never said it was reliable... but it is efficient.