jaytheman88 wrote:OMFG!! That is one amaizing looking swap you got goin there. +1 for the s14 and +1 for the custom intake manifold. There is some real genius going into that one. Make sure to keep all of us posted on the further updates of the install. Dont forget to give us a video with that thing runnin too!!

Thanks for the compliments, I'm making progress but slowly! I'll keep everyone updated at my site:

http://www.engineswaptech.com

Fred
Modified by fredb at 8:25 AM 6/28/2006

gyfer wrote:
You can do google search to find out.I6 is indeed much lighter. In design, V6 require counter-balance in crankshaft oppose to I6.

Please, do your homework

1) V-6 does not *require* a balance shaft - the VG and VQ engines do not have one. It depends on the angle ov the "V" (60-deg, 90-deg, etc) as well as other design goals.

2) Do the math - it takes a given amount of cylinder head to cover a given cylinder count - note that your I6 head it about um....twice as long as one of the two V6 heads (all things being equal like bore spacing, etc)

3) "V6 has more energy loss because it duplicates valve gears and camshafts, and use of 2 cylinder bank leads to more heat loss. (engine efficiency)" See #2 above - your I-6 camshaft is about 2x a long as a V6 one. I will give you partial credit on the overcall concept. Your argument *might* have more validity if you were comparing frictional losses between SOHC and DOHC since a 4v/cyl DOHC has 2x as many camves/cams as a 2v/cyl SOHC......but guess which makes more power? A 24v V6 and I6 both have 24 valves, rockers or tappets, camshaft lobes, etc.

4) "Ultimately, I6 is more efficient, yet smoother". All other things being equal, MAYBE. In today's world it is not, I will wager the aluminum VQ35DE is lighter than the iron/aluminum RB26.

FYI the VQ35DE is in the 375# range complete and the older VG30DE is roughly 425#, and continuing down the Z-car engine lineup the I6 (L28) is closer to 500# and it is "only" SOHC vs DOHC for the VG / VQ mentioned here.

Simply because one engine is an I6 will not automatically make it lighter than a V6 of comparable displacement. Conversely an all-aluminum engine is not automatically lighter than a similar-displacement iron block/alum head engine....the aluminum SR20DE is about 300# whereas the iron block CA18DE is about 270#.

The only way to know is to weigh each engine in similar configuration (accessories, manifolds, etc).

And as far as what is better - V6 or I6....the answer depends on what the design goals are. I6 is inherently smoother, but the V6 packages better. This exact thread flows through the Z-car list about once a year or so.

thanks for the backup. welcome to NICO. you are required to post pics and info on your car.

TT510guy, Thanks for chiming in, I saw your page quit some time ago and was blown away at the quality of the job. This was a while before I had the nerve to dive into my project and yours was really an inspiration to me.

Any updates on the 510?

Fredhttp://www.engineswaptech.com

when is this bad boy going to see some dyno time? i wanna see what kind of power it puts out

Wow. Double Wow. Whoa!

That's some impressive work. I'm a little under the Jägermeister right now, so I'm not sure if it was posted how much work it was.... but man that's cool!

Later this year I'm going to be picking up a '69 - 72 Skyline. The popular swap seems to be to go from the L20 I6 to the L28...but holy crap, according to the weight listed here it's like 500lbs!!!

We've got the VQ35 in our G35 Sedan and absolutely love it. I wonder how much of a crazy-*** project it would be to stuff it in the Hakosuka...

if that engine bay is anything like the Z then theres alot of room, and it should be as simple as new motor mounts, drive shaft, and wireing. but i could be wrong.

Hey Fred... The car is looking great... I have a '92 240SX coupe and I am serious about doing the swap. I did see the article in SCC and have read it over and over again.

Just wondering where you are with your car and what you are your plans for guages and other necessary guages? I have also been to your website and have been studying the pictures and your posts. Can't wait to hear about the latest...

JasonH.Georgia

Hey man, It's coming along but slowly right now, I've got another car to finish up then I'll be back hard at it, it's sooooo close to drivable, just need a few hours to work on it.

Fred

Sorry, but some of you guys are WAYYY off with regards to the engine weight info being posted here:

KA - 368lbs (unknown if that is short, long, or fully dressed) - posted by UKnissan

RB20 - 476.8lbs YoMani (or something like that, he's on nico) weighed it himself

RB25DET - 720lbs - sport compact car magazine Sept 2003

RB26 unknown to me but estimates range from 550-700lbs from what I just read, I GUARANTEE it is a sh!tload heavier than these weights:

VQ35 - 260lbs longblock, no intake manifold - weighed by JClaw, lifted by himself onto bathroom scale

VQ30 Shortblock - 127lbs weighed by JClaw on his bathroom scale - including rotating assembly, no heads, no timing cover, and of course no intake manifold.

VQ30 long block - 246lbs weighed by ME at aluminum recycling facility. No intake manifold, obviously including rotating assembly, block, heads, timing equipment.

VQ30 long block (different one than above) 315lbs - lifted by my buddy and I onto bathroom scale at my buddy's house with no problems whatsoever.

VQ35 long block component pieces weighed on shipping scale by eng92 - 277lbs - block, heads, rotating assembly.

VQ35 long block including intake manifold, no accessories - 313lbs weighed on a recently calibrated auditing scale with supposedly accurate to within +/- 0.5lbs

CREDIT GOES TO eng92 FOR THESE PICTURES

VQ35

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...1.jpg

VQ30 long block, undressed - 338lbs

VQ30

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...4.jpg

So, yeah... if you guys would stop saying the RB is lighter than the VQ that would be greaaaaaaat... mmmmkay? It's not even within the same realm, let alone"lighter than the VQ" lol it's at least 2x heavier.

Obviously some of the scales above are out of calibration (bathroom scales always try to make you feel good about yourself lol), but you get the basic idea. VQ35 is somewhere between 270 and 310ish lbs, VQ30 is somewhere between 270 and 330ish lbs (I don't trust the 246lbs that the aluminum recycler gave me as being completely accurate, because they pay you based on weight, and of course they'd like to pay out as little as possible. so their scale probably reads light which coincides with the numbers that other people got.) They say (nissan says) that the VQ35 is about 35lbs lighter than the VQ30 was which is exactly what eng92's weights on the same scale, on the same day, indicate.

Anyhow - to the topic at hand... There are a number of guys (I can think of 4 off the top of my head) on maxima.org who are putting or have put VQs into S13s and S14s. I don't know where else those guys post but their names on maxima.org are broaner, JClaw, eng92, and of course Fred Allen Burge who posted above, if you want to search for their posts. broaner is done and drives the car, eng92 i believe is done and drives the car (he doesn't post all that much) and JClaw is 90% and should be driving the car within a week or so it seems, fred's posts speak for themselves.


Modified by Nealoc at 8:50 AM 8/29/2006

Your post would appear informative, but you need to actually check the sources you quote.

The SCC article you source actually says:

"Be prepared to accept more weight with the RB25DET. Fully dressed with both crossmembers and the steering rack attached (but no A/C), the KA24DE weighs about 540 pounds. With two more cylinders, a much beefier transmission and a turbocharger, the RB25DET weighs about 720 pounds. That's an extra 180 pounds to accelerate, stop and turn. Good thing it makes more power."

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.....html

Not necessarily trying to debate here. But we need an apples to apples comparison to truly compare here. Comparing the longblock with turbo, intake and exhaust manifolds, transmission, lower crossmembers and steering rack to incomplete engines without even transmissions is not much of a comparison at all. The weight difference between the apples to apples comparison made by SCC between the RB and the KA is 180 lbs. This with 2 more cylinders and a heavier tranny. Perhaps even a bigger steering rack, but I'll assume it's the same weight for the sake of argument.

The VQ is potentially lighter but there's no clear comparison that shows this. And to say the RB is at least 2x heavier is a stretch. So let's tone down the sarcasm...mmmmkay?

Check out the sylvia/240sx forum for my thread. VQ35DE in an S13. Im half way done. Hope this gets you dreaming! Later!

Mark

not trying to resurrect a dead thread here,

but any updates? anybody have a working vq s13 or 14 on here?

that great you found half the information ,but the rb25det is 720 lbs complete swap ,you want to talk about wieght do your research first,the vq35de that he weight was 313 lbs just long block and intake manifold.plus that a fwd vq35de from maxima or altima not a 350z motor ,where is the extra weight for the a/c compressor ,(2) exhaust manifolds,starter,ecu,wire harness,6 speed tranny,intake manifold of a 350z not maxima or altima

Nealoc wrote:Sorry, but some of you guys are WAYYY off with regards to the engine weight info being posted here:

KA - 368lbs (unknown if that is short, long, or fully dressed) - posted by UKnissan

RB20 - 476.8lbs YoMani (or something like that, he's on nico) weighed it himself

RB25DET - 720lbs - sport compact car magazine Sept 2003

RB26 unknown to me but estimates range from 550-700lbs from what I just read, I GUARANTEE it is a sh!tload heavier than these weights:

VQ35 - 260lbs longblock, no intake manifold - weighed by JClaw, lifted by himself onto bathroom scale

VQ30 Shortblock - 127lbs weighed by JClaw on his bathroom scale - including rotating assembly, no heads, no timing cover, and of course no intake manifold.

VQ30 long block - 246lbs weighed by ME at aluminum recycling facility. No intake manifold, obviously including rotating assembly, block, heads, timing equipment.

VQ30 long block (different one than above) 315lbs - lifted by my buddy and I onto bathroom scale at my buddy's house with no problems whatsoever.

VQ35 long block component pieces weighed on shipping scale by eng92 - 277lbs - block, heads, rotating assembly.

VQ35 long block including intake manifold, no accessories - 313lbs weighed on a recently calibrated auditing scale with supposedly accurate to within +/- 0.5lbs

CREDIT GOES TO eng92 FOR THESE PICTURES

VQ35

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...1.jpg

VQ30 long block, undressed - 338lbs

VQ30

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...4.jpg

So, yeah... if you guys would stop saying the RB is lighter than the VQ that would be greaaaaaaat... mmmmkay? It's not even within the same realm, let alone"lighter than the VQ" lol it's at least 2x heavier.

Obviously some of the scales above are out of calibration (bathroom scales always try to make you feel good about yourself lol), but you get the basic idea. VQ35 is somewhere between 270 and 310ish lbs, VQ30 is somewhere between 270 and 330ish lbs (I don't trust the 246lbs that the aluminum recycler gave me as being completely accurate, because they pay you based on weight, and of course they'd like to pay out as little as possible. so their scale probably reads light which coincides with the numbers that other people got.) They say (nissan says) that the VQ35 is about 35lbs lighter than the VQ30 was which is exactly what eng92's weights on the same scale, on the same day, indicate.

Anyhow - to the topic at hand... There are a number of guys (I can think of 4 off the top of my head) on maxima.org who are putting or have put VQs into S13s and S14s. I don't know where else those guys post but their names on maxima.org are broaner, JClaw, eng92, and of course Fred Allen Burge who posted above, if you want to search for their posts. broaner is done and drives the car, eng92 i believe is done and drives the car (he doesn't post all that much) and JClaw is 90% and should be driving the car within a week or so it seems, fred's posts speak for themselves.

Modified by Nealoc at 8:50 AM 8/29/2006

Modified by ghost_infantry11b20 at 1:35 AM 1/6/2007

Modified by ghost_infantry11b20 at 1:38 AM 1/6/2007
Modified by ghost_infantry11b20 at 1:40 AM 1/6/2007

I'm gonna have to step in here and revive this one. This is why I haven't posted on this generally ignorant site in over a year. I can't stand by the wayside as a well concieved swap idea is bashed. :harsh: Possibly but uniformed BS is equally as harsh.

Let me compile my list of things to quiet the naysayers.

1. The VQ makes instant lagless power nearly equal to the "mighty RB" in stock form.

2. Despite ignorant opinion, the VQ is the exact same weight as the KA and is also half the length of the RB allowing it to sit way back in the chassis without touching the firewall.(Source: Credit Fred http://www.engineswaptech.com/...px)If you wanna go crazy with the firewall, its fairly simple to get the whole motor behind the strut towers.

3. The VQ is also incredibly strong for boost considering its a fully aluminum open deck design. Quite often stock blocked 35's can be taken to 500+WHP. Sleave it, you're talkin 650+ wheel. Stroke it to a 4.2 with twin GT30's.... Goodnight! You talking monster instant torque and full boost fractions of a second after throttle plate snaps open.

4. I'll agree that a year ago when this thread was created the VQ didn't have a ton of aftermarket support but it was growing at a phenomenal rate at the time. Now the amount support is incredible and I'd be willing the wager that the levels of parts availability are equal to or surpass the RB.

5. And finally, the VQ is probably the cheapest engine anyone could ever look for in a salvage yard. The VQ has come in every Maxima since 95. The original 30's can be had with low miles for $300 shipped. HA! The 35 can be had with low miles for $600. Um, availability?

My Cardomain:http://www.cardomain.com/ride/767108Current car weight is 2060lbs and falling.

If it sounds harsh, sorry. I'm rather preterbed that people blindly assume so much they have no idea about.
Modified by Broaner at 10:28 PM 2/14/2007

how much will it cost to get the VQ35DE swapped into an 1996 S14 by a professional mechanic?

Im going for the 'LUX' look, but I want a fast car.. as well as good looks.

Ive been thinking about this swap for about a year, but I read somewhere it is 10 grand just for the swap...is this true?

i dont kno much about the vq series engines but did they change the block at all from the fwd to the rwd. and are there any other transmissions that bolt up to the vq's.

Broaner. Saw your car on fresh alloy and checked out your vid the other day. Amen!!! You rock dude. Post the weight of your car for these guys. I haven't posted much on this forum in a while either..... in fact i had to request my password to get on here. Anywho.... hello to all again cuz it's been a minute. I'm a nissan tech at regal nissan in al. I am working on the vq swap in my s14 right now. And guys let me tell you....ya'll are really not even paying attention to the biggest advantage of this swap. Yes it's light.....and way lighter than the rb. I could put another vq in my trunk for traction and catch rb's making the same power. That's not even the reason I chose the v though. Think about where all that weight is at in the chassis of the freakin car..... then do your 2+2's (which seems to equal 5.3 for some of you) and get back to me when we meet at the end of the long winding road..... nuff said.... oh yeah and broaner, MADD PROPS bro. put some video's up on here. actually put a llink to yours in this thread.... especially if you got some new ones. got some guys at work anxious to see more of your car. Mine's a work in progress. Building a motor right now. You wouldn't happen to have a set of heads laying around would you? Need some spares to send off.

450SXTC

Check my thread, if your building your motor, your gonna want this info if you plan to stay stock parts. Also, your gonna need to run the Unified Meter Control Unit / amp if you want to run a stock ECM. Go to On-Board Diagnosis in the z ESM. Look for FAIL SAFE, read the bottom of the page. It says that if the Unified Meter CU recognizes a problem with the MIL (ie, not there), and the ECM stored a DTC for 5 trips, the computer will enter FAIL SAFE mode, as a response to NOT being able to turn the MIL on. I just figured that out today, so we are installing a U/M amp to our S13 and a MIL behind the dash. Hope that helps!

zerothread?id=207033

Later,

Mark

Hey thanks for the info. Im actually going the megasquirt route with this one but that's good info. lmk if you need any factory esm stuff. If you got a fax at your shop i can send to you from work. Hopefully the megasquirt will work out well but I may have a good deal on a microtech before then in which case I'll go with that so I can run the G-dash. yeah like I said though I'm still in the build process right now and prepping the car starts in a few weeks hopefully. You got any spare parts or need any holla at me. [email protected] oh yeah and haven't had a chance to read your whole thread. That's a few pages buddy. Highlight the good ones for me if you can. later bro

Fax at my shop.... Like you, I am a Nissan tech. Actually most of my experience was with Infiniti, but work for a Nissan dealership now. You'll see once I get into the Consult II processes in my posts. Look to page 7, bottom, you'll see that you can use the VQ35HR pistons in the VQ35DE block to raise compression above 11:1. Probably closer to 12:1. Pistons as an employee, shouldnt be more than $330.00. I cant remember exactly what I paid for them. Also, I ordered my HR clutch. No telling when I'll get it though, its on backorder (as in, even Master PDC doesnt have one). If your in alabama, and you need some good people to talk to about performance parts, you can try calling Josh at West Houston Infiniti. He isnt a parts guy, just a friend of mine (I was a team leader there). He can give you some phone numbers to some really good shops in Houston. Not really close enough to go pick them up, but a little less on shipping.

Mark

sweet. Thanx for the info. I looked at your profile and saw perf. shop. figured you ran an independant or something. Did you go to school in atl. a little while back??? Met some guys from north carolina at nna training center. justwondered.. they said they were working on a vq swap in a 13.... yeah I was thinking about the hr pistons but I am pretty sure I have decided not to use them. I'm sticking with a little less compression cause I got these 2 t25's I'm plannin on usin. but.....by the time i get everything together i may go a different direction on that. I'm plannin on going together with the motor in the next 3 weeks

Broaner, nice post, gotta say I agree with you on all points.

the nissan V6 swaps are amazing on a low cost perspective.now that the Z33 and almost every other new nissan uses a v6, the prices of these motors and stock/spare parts are all dirt cheap! all the while, LS1 prices are rising due to their popularity in hotrods, 240sx/rx7 swaps and offroad 4x4 buggies, etc.

I have a stock auto ka24de kouki 240sx for a daily driver and it would be 10x better with a newer 6-speed 300hp n/a v6 under the hood if its just about $2000 complete, thats one hell of a bargain. I wonder how hard it would be to keep it all obdII compliant if I used a 97-98 maxima v6?

Well if you decide to I got a trans for you....lmkif you need one.

What are you selling, might be interested...

anyone got a 350z flywheel they wanna get rid of...or starter...or driveshaft?? I got everything except this stuff...

the VQ30DE or DEK should be a whole hell of a lot easyer than the 3.5 due to all the new **** they put on the car.

im still confused if the bell housing bolt patter on the fwd is the same as the rwd????

everyone needs to go to vqswap.com they make an entire kit, complete with engine wiring harness, motormounts, custom headers and a aem ems unit programmed for the swap to get optimum performance out of your vq. im actually about to do it myself, ive talked to the guy that owns the company and its really easy to do if you buy the kit...... check it out its not as hard as everyone is making it out to be, they have kits for the s13 and s14

o one more thing >

where in bham are you at