VH45 s14 S/C

Post by **gs14racer** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:23 pm

thanks to the both of you

todays work, intercooler done

Post by **qsiguy** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:48 pm

In case you want to reference my timing and fuel maps, here's what I've been using over the summer. Fuel AFR hits about 10.3 at 8 psi over about 4.5K RPM. Ignition is quite retarded and I was using methanol. No detonation except if the engine got really heat soaked like on a 1 hr commute to work stop and go on the freeway at 110*F ambient and decided to try to get into boost after that, no good...

I think these are really safe maps. You probably don't want to go this safe but it would be a good starting point.

Summer timing map

Summer fuel map
Modified by qsiguy at 10:32 PM 9/19/2009

Post by **SuperHatch** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:09 pm

qsiguy wrote:In case you want to reference my timing and fuel maps, here's what I've been using over the summer. Fuel AFR hits about 10.3 at 8 psi over about 4.5K RPM. Ignition is quite retarded and I was using methanol. No detonation except if the engine got really heat soaked like on a 1 hr commute to work stop and go on the freeway at 110*F ambient and decided to try to get into boost after that, no good...

I think these are really safe maps. You probably don't want to go this safe but it would be a good starting point.

Excellent! That actually doesn't look a whole heck of a lot different than what I came up with, just that my TP wasn't scaled far enough. Good to know my assumptions make a good safe starting point! Will post what I come up with before I send it out...

Post by **tmorgan4** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:27 pm

Nice aluminum welding!

Post by **SuperHatch** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:25 pm

Well, this is the map that is currently loaded onto Jerry's Ostrich that's on its way to Florida. I hope it is a good starting point. I'm sure it will be pig rich and will likely hit 100% IDCs, but it is better to be safe than sorry.

Post by **qsiguy** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:30 pm

I agree, those should be nice safe starter maps. What's the redline set at? With that rich an AFR you'll probably max the injectors at about 5.5-6k rpm. Are you using the knock maps or disabling them? Will you just make the no knock and knock maps the same? You can also set the TP and RPM knock filtering levels really high which will effectively disable knock sensing.

The stock fuel map has 5.88 in the low RPM/TP range so I left mine the same. I noticed you changed them to 14.7. Do you know why they have 5.88 there?

What software are you using for your tuning? Is that NisTune?

Here's a screenshot of my wideband log from a couple months ago. This is with the summer tune shown above at 114*F ambient. My current rev limit is set to 6900 RPM.

Modified by qsiguy at 9:46 PM 9/20/2009

Post by **gs14racer** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:14 pm

wooh, what a day. i cant tell you the countless hours i spent doing the simplest of tasks, 2.5hrs to do the oil feed line, due to the proximity of the headers, frame rail, crossmemeber, motormount and steering, it was a nightmare, i had to weld up a tool just to get the damn thing out. needless to say everything is done. The ecu should be here wendsday and all i really have left is hook up the blowoff valve.on to the pics

3 inch intercooler piping FTW!!

Everything back together

Welded a bung to the timing chain tensioner window access point for oil return.

Back side of the supercharger

Some vids

First crank up of the engine with boost, untuned of course just idling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKxcBwiVdIA

Ofcourse i couldnt resist myself, plus i needed to see how much it was boosting, so i pulled about 8-9 degrees at the CAS, and bumped up the fuel pressure, no incar unfourtunatly but you get the idea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH7DlNwMozY

Well since i pulled so much timing across the rpm band plus bumped up the fuel pressure, plus being untuned it pretty much ran like crap, very sluggish and bucking and hesistating, really bad that is up until about 5500rpm, then it screams, theres so much left in it ofcourse once the tuning is done, but i feel like its gonna be a monster, fwiw boost hit peak of 8-9 psi at 7000rpm, im gonna go one size down on the pulley for now.

Special thanks to Abe for helping, and steve for the tuning.

Post by **Ptotherice** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:15 pm

This is absolutely amazing.

Post by **AZhitman** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:32 pm

Jerry, you are officially the coolest person on the forum right now.

Loving the build - Can't wait to see this car in person!

Post by **SuperHatch** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:39 am

qsiguy wrote:I agree, those should be nice safe starter maps. What's the redline set at? With that rich an AFR you'll probably max the injectors at about 5.5-6k rpm. Are you using the knock maps or disabling them? Will you just make the no knock and knock maps the same? You can also set the TP and RPM knock filtering levels really high which will effectively disable knock sensing.

Thanks. The redline is actually set to 8000, since this was actually built off of the expanded RPM tables that I built for my cam'd motor. Jerry, I should have lowered it back to 6800/7000 before I sent it out and I didn't. I will talk you through it when you recieve the package. It is very very simple in Nistune.

I did not alter the TP and RPM knock filtering levels.

qsiguy wrote:The stock fuel map has 5.88 in the low RPM/TP range so I left mine the same. I noticed you changed them to 14.7. Do you know why they have 5.88 there?

I actually didn't change them from 5.88, if you notice on the bottom of the window the drop down box says "Target AFR", if I had chosen raw values, they would have shown up differently. The reason that your software shows them at 5.88 is because of the way the software decodes the HEX values. At all of the points where your fuel map is showing 5.88, the ECU is monitoring O2 feedback and applying fuel trims to maintain stoich AFR at cruise/idle. In Nistune those cells are "flagged" but the software decripts them to show up at the target. I can actually change the targeted cruise AFR, but since a narrowband O2 can't "see" anything other than stoich, that wouldn't really work.

The same flags appear on the timing tables as well. The cells where the timing shows crazy values are the cells where the ECU is monitoring KS feedback. If you are on the high octane map and the KS detect knock in a cell outside of those designated cells, the ECU will continue to run in the no-knock map. It is only if the ECU detects knock within those cells that it will switch to the knock map.

qsiguy wrote:What software are you using for your tuning? Is that NisTune?

Yes it is...

qsiguy wrote:Here's a screenshot of my wideband log from a couple months ago. This is with the summer tune shown above at 114*F ambient. My current rev limit is set to 6900 RPM.Modified by qsiguy at 9:46 PM 9/20/2009

Looks like you're keeping it good and rich, which is the safe way to be. I have tuned a number of cars at 10.8:1 versus 11.8:1 (boosted applications) and have seen virtually no (<5HP on a 500+HP car) increase in HP from the alteration of ARF, and this is with proper timing adjustments to account of the change in flame speed at different AFRs. If the power gains will be negligible, why run it lean? Keep it rich so the additional fuel can act as a combustion chamber coolant and leave it be. Granted, there is a limit here. At high boost (20+psi) extremely rich mixtures become difficult to ignite, but high 10's are still achieveable with a healthy ignition system.

Anyway, Jerry, everything looks awesome. I can't wait to see some full throttle pulls with this ECU installed. Don't forget to set your base timing back to stock once you get the ECU!!!

Post by **gs14racer** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:36 am

Thanks again, i really cant thank you enough for your help in this, i cant wiat to do some pulls neither lol, i hope to have it tuned and dynoed asap.

One question though, does the standard wide style o2 bung work with the wideband sensor, id like to get one installed so that it will be read, i think i have one laying around somewhere.

Post by **SuperHatch** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:09 am

Well I sent it out today on my lunch break priority mail, so you should have it Wednesday, Thursday at the very latest.

Yes, the WBO2 uses the same bung as the OEM Nissan O2 Sensors, and every sensor I know of for that matter. Make sure you weld the bung between the 10 O'Clock and 2 O'Clock positions for moisture rejection, 3 and 9 at the worst case.

Post by **1WheelWonder** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:04 pm

Absolutely badass Jerry, always a fan of your car!

Post by **gs14racer** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:30 am

question for you boost guys, what spark plugs are you running 1 or 2 steps colder? also what plug gap, i was thinking around .30?

I ordered a larger supercharger pulley as mine gave 9 psi at 6500rpm which would only get worse by 7000rpm, the one i ordered should give me 6-7 psi at 7000rpm.

Post by **kingkilburn** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:51 am

I would love hear this beast roar up to 8k.

You know you want to keep those cams.

Post by **gs14racer** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:01 am

lol, your right.

Post by **Carl H** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:31 am

i'd go with the copper equivalent plug in a 7 heat range being a high comp engine...standard gap should be ok for those boost levels.

Post by **SuperHatch** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:21 pm

gs14racer wrote:question for you boost guys, what spark plugs are you running 1 or 2 steps colder? also what plug gap, i was thinking around .30?

I ordered a larger supercharger pulley as mine gave 9 psi at 6500rpm which would only get worse by 7000rpm, the one i ordered should give me 6-7 psi at 7000rpm.

Jerry,

NGK BKR6EIX-11 or BKR7EIX-11 are 1 or 2 steps colder, respectively, and iridium. You can also run BKR6E-11 or BKR7E-11 which are the copper equivalents. The stock gap is .044" which at 6psi would be fine with the iridium plugs. With the coppers, I would take it down to .036-.038".

Reason being, the Iridium plugs, by nature, have a lower resistance to spark (will ignite more easily) and as such shouldn't misfire with the stock ignition system at such low boost levels. The Copper plugs are marginally more difficult to spark, so tightening up the gap will help things.

Either way, avoid platinum plugs in boosted applications. The platinum tip is typically hotter than copper or iridium and can cause preignition. I know that platinum was used stock in Z32 TT's and other boosted cars of that era, well, we've gotten smarter since then.

Post by **XJared** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:23 pm

For plug gap, I've found the larger you can go without a misfire will produce more power. Don't just gap them down because you think you have to, just if you do encounter a misfire.

Post by **gs14racer** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:59 pm

well the 4 inch pulley is on, took me like 10 different belts till i finally found one that fit, its funny how the same size belts in different brands are different sizes.

So now i hit about 5 psi at 6k should do about 6-7 at 7k like i had hoped for, hopefully the ecu gets here tommorow and we can get to the dyno to see if i can break 400whp, fingers crossed.

At least i already have the pulley and belt for 11 psi so when i upgrade injectors and maf that one can go back on

Post by **qsiguy** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:36 pm

I'm using the NGK Iridium BKR6EIX-11 plugs which is 1 step cooler as stated above. Seem fine to me but I really don't have anything to compare it to since this is all I've had since adding the turbo.

I'm guessing you'll hit at least 425-450 whp. I have to get mine dyno'd this winter. I keep putting it off for one reason or another. Remember that Jeff Taylor managed 446 whp @ 6 psi on his VH powered 240..
Modified by qsiguy at 11:43 PM 9/23/2009

Post by **Carl H** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:25 am

jeff also has a rather larger compressor working for him...

Post by **gs14racer** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:18 am

OMG ive been at this for 14 hours straight already, i need some sleep.

Ill say this when it wants to run, its FAST!!and the one time it ran, the tp went to the last column from 3500-6000

Post by **Carl H** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:41 am

yikes...not good that its railing out that early.

Post by **gs14racer** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:46 am

day 2 of the debacle

dear diary frustration has set in...

Post by **CrazyTrance** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:27 am

Jusst keep motivated man! Think of the outcome.. s*** will work out eventually.

Dude i'll bet that thing sounds mean as hell with a s/c on there.. waiting patiently for a sound clip. 400+hp VH. Yes PLEASE

Post by **Yellow4g63** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:11 pm

gs14racer wrote:day 2 of the debacle

dear diary frustration has set in...

Careful you don't get a leak in the stock maf. If you do just upgrade to the Ford Lightning maf and buy a blow through adapter like what I have on my car.

Post by **qsiguy** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:21 pm

I wonder if you are not getting good linear flow through the MAF due to the size transition so close to the MAF? That could be making some turbulance as well as the velocity in the center of the tube being faster directly on the sensor as the air has not had a chance to disperse evenly.

If my theory is correct that could explain why your TP is shooting up so fast. Is the mesh screen still in place on the inlet side of your MAF? Have you done any data logging yet to watch your MAF voltage to see if it's coming up smoothly or if it's erratic?

Modified by qsiguy at 6:48 PM 9/25/2009

Post by **Carl H** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:34 pm

transition like that should not affect maf metering capabilites...i have my rb car set up the same way in a blowthru configuration and its working just fine.i'd say the load mapping is incorrect.

Post by **SuperHatch** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:12 pm

qsiguy wrote:I wonder if you are not getting good linear flow through the MAF due to the size transition so close to the MAF? That could be making some turbulance as well as the velocity in the center of the tube being faster directly on the sensor as the air has not had a chance to disperse evenly.

If my theory is correct that could explain why your TP is shooting up so fast. Is the mesh screen still in place on the inlet side of your MAF? Have you done any data logging yet to watch your MAF voltage to see if it's coming up smoothly or if it's erratic?

Jerry and I spoke about this on the phone yesterday. I had the same diagnosis as you. The increased velocity at the center of the maf will translate into unusually high TP readings.

Modified by qsiguy at 6:48 PM 9/25/2009

VH45 s14 S/C

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