vh swap in a J30

Discuss topics related to the VH41DE, VH45DE, VK45DE, and VK56DE engines.
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SuperHatch
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elwesso wrote:I still stand by my statement that US VH41s are almost different enough to not be considered VH's.
I don't agree with that statement at all. From what I've researched the USDM VH41's share their shortblocks with the JDM VH41's sans the girdle, which can be added. It appears as though the JDM heads would bolt onto the USDM block, as the cam setup is the same. The bellhousing/starter/exhaust manifold setups are all the same. The US VH41 is very much a VH, just castrated a bit due to OBD2 emissions requirements.

On topic, I'd bet the VH41 is an easier swap into all of the cars we're trying to put these motors into, especially the J...


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craigztoyz
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elwesso wrote:
I still stand by my statement that US VH41s are almost different enough to not be considered VH's.
I'd back that statement.

Superhatch, Easier is not always better. I'd be easy to drop in a 4 cyl into the Z, carb'd. But not worth it. The Vh45, balanced, is a monster, not that a 41 is not, but, not at all what I am looking for. But thats just me.

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SuperHatch wrote:
On topic, I'd bet the VH41 is an easier swap into all of the cars we're trying to put these motors into, especially the J...
Maybe a JDM VH41, but not a US VH41 for sure!! OBDII and all that BS or go standalone

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SuperHatch
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craigztoyz wrote:I'd back that statement.
So what then do you think the motor is more closely related to? A 1UZ? A LSX? It is very very much a VH, and that's the point I was getting across. The fact that you can interchange its guts with any other VH, swap heads with the JDM 41, etc. makes it a VH in my book.

The argument that the intake port/manifold is different so it's not a VH is like telling the Honda boys that a B18B isn't a B series motor because it doesn't have VTEC... Or telling the Chevy truck owners that the V8s in their rigs aren't really LSX motors because the cam and intake manifold is different...

You can very much say that the USDM VH41 isn't a powerhouse like the VH45, but you can't say it's not a VH. That's the point I was making.
craigztoyz wrote:Superhatch, Easier is not always better. I'd be easy to drop in a 4 cyl into the Z, carb'd. But not worth it. The Vh45, balanced, is a monster, not that a 41 is not, but, not at all what I am looking for. But thats just me.
If I could get my hands on a JDM VH41 I'd use it any day in a Z over a 45. In that case, easier is better. I don't ever recall talking about carb'd 4 cylinders though...
elwesso wrote:Maybe a JDM VH41, but not a US VH41 for sure!! OBDII and all that BS or go standalone
That's exactly what I meant. A JDM VH41 is an easier swap into ANY of the cars we're talking about swapping it into. A J? Judging from what we've heard... Probably a bolt-in affair. A Z? Not bolt in, but the fact that the accessories are in the right place, the manifolds are more compact, the accessories are higher for swaybar clearance, and the entire motor is more compact makes it a more logical swap. The JDM VH41 has none of the downfalls of the US VH41 and all of the upsides of the VH45. It's a win-win. Now we just need to find someone who will import them.

And all that "OBD2 BS" is very real for people who live in states where you can't remove it from a car that came with it.

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craigztoyz
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As you stated in dapter topic, different bolt pattern. Still a VH, just different.

Back to the topic.

The J's front may be higher with less weight (my Z is 1.5" higher), springs, I heard are not made anymore, does anything crossover from 240/300?

Looks like I will do one Automatic J45 first, so Mettler, got info on that 'Quick-shift-kit'? Any info woudl be appreciated.


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elwesso
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craigztoyz wrote:As you stated in dapter topic, different bolt pattern. Still a VH, just different.

Back to the topic.

The J's front may be higher with less weight (my Z is 1.5" higher), springs, I heard are not made anymore, does anything crossover from 240/300?

Looks like I will do one Automatic J45 first, so Mettler, got info on that 'Quick-shift-kit'? Any info woudl be appreciated.
Does anyone know how much power N/A Z guys can put to a 01A trans before it blows?

Fortunately, the RE4R01A is a real common transmission, used in more vehicles than just nissan (mazda MPV, etc etc) so valve body/shift kits are real easy to find, and cheap. Most of the time you can get em for 200 bones or so, you just send em your setup. Or if you're feeling lucky you can just get a template and drill out the valve body yourself. Thats really all they do to increase line pressure is slightly drill out some of the orifices, and maybe add this and that.

I bet the 01A could handle a VH45 with a cooler and a shift kit, no issues.

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craigztoyz
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Planning now on just using the Q's trans and beefing it up a bit to handle more spirited driving.

I have done my share of GM trans shift kits, and yeah incresing pressure is one part, but tolerances are a big part too, Sometiems more in the clutch packs,...

Also thinking that since this one is going to be ATX, I may just swap wiring end to end, That is how I used to do Manual to Auto conversions on SHO's,and it worked well, just PITA to pull 2 dashes, and swap everything, pulling interiors, and swaping everything, and knowing Nissan, the plugs at doors might work, but Q has seat adjust in door, J doesnt, sure there must be more too.

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The only issue that I see is you're going to have to swap driveshafts... well, make a custom driveshaft.. the 03A has a bigger output shaft than the 01A.. thats why I was saying I was just going to use the 01A until it gave up, then go manual..

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craigztoyz
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This customer needs an Auto.

Driveshaft was already going to be a must as a 1 piece is more desirable. That will be a piece of cake, Austin Drivetrain does Awsome work, at great prices.

Most everything else is doable, just a lot of FSM work first.

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Craig I think I'll ask you this on here instead of on the phone.

Based on what you know so far, you said some things will be harder and some things will be easier than doing it on a Z32. What do you think will be easier and harder? going into the project, can you give a summary of what you think

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craigztoyz
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Wes, from what I have found without getting too far into it, (havent even looked at the j's wiring yet) I had the Q eng and 5spd sat in for 2 minutes 6 weeks back or so, when it's eng was getting some help. Fit better then the Z because it has a better designed crossmember, and it's engine percehs allow space for the headers to clear easier. I had to lay c channel down in my crossmember to lower headers down where I wanted it.

The driveshaft is obviously longer, needs to be very strong one piece so its not the weak link in the chain of command. the Q's diff is a stronger unit, and i'd prefer it, but the j's should take a good beat'n. the hood is longer and their is more space in front of engine, to mount rad, and all easier, and with the hood on the j fitting it under hood easily is not too hard. Other then that, I dont remember right now, a lil late, almost 2am. I'm sure tomorrow I will have more.Craig

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AlabamaDan wrote:
still in the R & D stage so to speak...dont worry though...im sure well see pics soon enough...

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craigztoyz
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If things go better then the last 12 hours, I will have an engine back in for more testing next weekend. I had pulled J's engine/trans for seals r/r, and had VH sittng there ready to go, no trans, so had to try. Pics @3am are not even on my list of things to worry about. I build for me, and if I took pics of all the r/d I'd never be able to upload everything.

But now that I have the engine back in, its either sell it as is, swap in Vh, or wait more.

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craigztoyz wrote:If things go better then the last 12 hours, I will have an engine back in for more testing next weekend. I had pulled J's engine/trans for seals r/r, and had VH sittng there ready to go, no trans, so had to try. Pics @3am are not even on my list of things to worry about. I build for me, and if I took pics of all the r/d I'd never be able to upload everything.

But now that I have the engine back in, its either sell it as is, swap in Vh, or wait more.
sorry to keep you waiting bro...if you can sell the J then like i said before by all means go ahead...whatever you need to do to keep food on the table you know...anyways this weekend has been a rough one...ill give you a call 2morrow nite sometime-K

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I'm not waiting, I've had it just sitting here since Jan, and not too interested. Like I said, got too many cars to work on. But if yours is all rusty and you need a great donor to do it too, this is it, but I cant imagine selling it without swaping it first. It just belongs in there, and the power I had to day, would be awsome in there. Its all good, either way.

The last 12 hours----- I had a blast running my car, and then as usual, joy turned to stress as a 4yr old kid can do.

After hearing the open intake WWWHHAAAp to day, I am very eager to get its plates and inspectionsticker.

efeezie
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Got a few pics snapped.

Heres the car



Picture of the stock Q45 mount rotated 90 degrees.

Pic of the AC compressor clearance. The motor is tilted back so I wont know about that clearance until I bolt the trans in if it'll clear.

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Carl H
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dear god, why do people insist on using the intake plenum as a lift point?fwiw the drivers side engine slinger is ONLY 15$ at the dealer, please spare the runners the stress of 500lbs+ of engine hanging under them.

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kbflip02
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looks great...im jealous...are you converting to manual as well or keeping it automatic?

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nice, im sure you should be able to find some factory nissan mounts that are similar in design just shorter.

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Carl H wrote:dear god, why do people insist on using the intake plenum as a lift point?fwiw the drivers side engine slinger is ONLY 15$ at the dealer, please spare the runners the stress of 500lbs+ of engine hanging under them.
FWIW you can pick up a 800lb BBC by 4 1/4-20 carburator bolts...

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SuperHatch wrote:
FWIW you can pick up a 800lb BBC by 4 1/4-20 carburator bolts...
Threaded into a cast iron manifold, into cast iron heads...

cast aluminum makes me a little nervous, especially when the lift points are designed as they are. I actualyl didnt even use the bracket on the drivrs side, I just put in 2 14mm bolts right through the link of the chain, worked great.

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Hmmm...I guess the reason Q engines don't come stock with two lift points is because their designed to come out from the bottom.

Looks good makes me want to go spend $$$!

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AlabamaDan wrote:Hmmm...I guess the reason Q engines don't come stock with two lift points is because their designed to come out from the bottom.

Looks good makes me want to go spend $$$!
They do come stock with 2 lift points, but you have to buy the bracket for the front drivers side because if ti came installed it would realyl get in the way of a lot of things, in fact im not 100% sure youd be able to have the intake on, and I know for sure you woudlnt be able to replace the spark plugs with it installed.

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SuperHatch
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elwesso wrote:
Threaded into a cast iron manifold, into cast iron heads...

cast aluminum makes me a little nervous, especially when the lift points are designed as they are. I actualyl didnt even use the bracket on the drivrs side, I just put in 2 14mm bolts right through the link of the chain, worked great.
Aluminum Intake, Aluminum heads... 1000HP super gas motors. The lifting plate is brass and the bolts are standard carb bolts.

There is enough stength in the VH intake to pick up the whole car. Should you? No, but it's possible. If you saw how "small" the bolts are in the slings we pick up 30,000lb helicopters with you wouldn't think twice about picking up the VH by the intake manifold.

At the risk of sounding like Q45tech...

Plain A36 grade mild steel has a tensile yield strength of 36,000psi. Assuming each of the bolts holding the upper plenum to the lower plenum are 3/16" minor diameter, that gives us an area of 0.027" per bolt. There are 16 bolts, so that's a total area of 0.44 sq. in. Multiply that by the 36,000lb tensile strength and you can pick up 15,896lbs. Of course, this is assuming that the bolts are mild steel, which I'm sure they're a higher grade than that.

The tensile strength of a seatbelt is around 30,000lb as well...

Back to human speak. I would feel very comfortable pulling the VH by 4 of the intake manifold bolts.


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elwesso
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touche mr. engineer man, I can understand that kind of talk!!!


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Carl H
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yeaaaah but the plenum to runner bolts are aluminum.

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Wow this got OT pretty quick

KBflip- It will stay auto.

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SuperHatch
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Carl H wrote:yeaaaah but the plenum to runner bolts are aluminum.
Yes, and heat treated aluminum, say 2014-T6 (which a bolt would need to be heat treated to be able to be used more than once) has a tensile yield strength that is 60% higher than A36 grade mild steel. So it would be able to hold 25,000lb...

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efeezie wrote:Wow this got OT pretty quick

KBflip- It will stay auto.
that sounds great...exactly what im planning...still working out the financial details as well as debating if i want to try any type of forced induction on the VH as well...definately keep us updated with pics on how the swap is going...craigztoyz is who i will be commissioning to do the swap for me...his work w/ his vh z32 is outstanding....very excited for you...oh yeah before i forget once you get it mounted let me know if the front end of the J sits higher than the rear being that the VH is lighter than the VG...that will have to be something i need to compensate for in one way or another....either way pics look great and very promising


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