Turbo upgrade

[LoserbabyS13]

What do you guys think. I was thinking of this turbo.Ebay Turbo or saving up for GT28RS aka Disco Potato.

[Dori Dori]

What kind of power do you want?

[NeedCAforS13]

I would steer clear of THAT (SR20VET) turbo unless you can figure out if it is indeed the same as an s15 turbo. The price is the same as the s15 one, and its going to suck if it doesn't fit as nicely, or make as much power. If you want a t28, wait for a real s15 one:)

Sean

[LoserbabyS13]

I am only looking for around 300 whp.

[Dori Dori]

I wouldn't look at the T2 series of turbos then. You never want to be maxing out the turbo at your goals IMO. I'd be looking into something a bit bigger like the GT25r. You can get the one w/ the .64ar...it'll have pretty quick spool, good top end, and has the potential for 350whp. For a little more top end and sacrificing some spool, you can get the one w/ .86 ar. Sounds the the .64 is right up your alley though.

[sprfst240]

I think i heard someone on this forum mention a evoIII turbo for 500 on ebay....that would require a custom exhaust mani. though....although you would be able to easily put down 300whp with that turbo..... on a more realistic side you should look at the fp big28 turbo on the heavy throttle website...keep us updated on what you get...thanksblake keirnes

[Teerawood]

i dunno if its just me but one of the stems look bent

[Spectre23]

If you go bigger than the GT28R, expect to buy a new manifold, even if it is just the GT25R (has a bigger compressor housing than GT28R I think). I just put a GT28R (not the GT28RS) on my CA and the compressor housing only clears the manifold my 0.020". So of course no heat shields would fit back into place. So I would assume the GT25R wouldn't fit at all unless you got a new manifold or made a spacer for the stock one and got longer studs for it.

[r34 gtr]

damn... ill keep that in mind when i go shopping later this week.. how much should i expect to pay for one of those bad boys? because for $1350 i can get a whole trust td05-16g turbo kit including the trust stainless manifold, a trust external wastegate, a stainless wastegate dump pipe, a 3 inch stainless downpipe, 16g turbo, braided stainless oil lines and all the gaskets. you guys think i should jump on it like it was the last chopper out of 'nam?

- tim

[Spectre23]

I got my GT28R for free. But that's because I have the hook-up on turbos I have seen them for around $800 somewhere though. And there is that manifold people are talking about in another thread, but it sounds like a low quality unit.

[Nismo1182]

A GT25R should clear the manifold with no problems at all, thought it will be a tight fit. Expect to hack the motor mount also, but thats expected.

[boost_boy]

Ahh, the magic 300hp again! Wrong motor to be chasing 300hp with, especially using any T2 small series turbo. If you're not using an upgraded ECU with some sort of piggy back system, some bigger injectors, a FMIC, and not prepared to be straining your engine, well you will have to look at something bigger. Even if you have a T3, you'll need the upgrades to accomodate it or you'll blast your little CA18 chasing 300hp. Everyone wants spoolability? Well keep in mind that because it spools up fast, it will more than likely run out of breath quickly as well, hence the T2 family will offer you just that. Take my advice and start shopping for something in the T3 family because a T25/T28 ball bearing or not is just a waste of time and money if you're looking to make some serious power. And BTW, for a CA18, 300whp is some very serious power and that's why there aren't that many CA18 owners on this forum that have achieved that as of yet! Oh yeah, a similar discussion like this one is in the archives, so do a search and all you need to know with some of this same information is available.

Dee

[CA19DET]

i dont agree there at all.. you do not need a T3 turbo to get 300whp, the S15 turbo makes about 340whp on SR's at 20psi, and the GT25R makes way over that and has loads of potential. check out the dynos below,,,

Danno on Freshalloyspecs - Car has .86 gt25r, 264 step 1's, z32maf, 740cc, rspl, and profec B on stock SR20DET - 1.4bar boost

the .64 a/r turbine will spool faster but will not give as much power, thats probably more what you are looking for around 300whp.

MOvingViolation240.64 AR housing, intake manifold, 264 step 1 cams, 555cc injectors, stock turbo manifold. stock SR20DET Boost was set at 1.3 bar.

what more could you want, it bolts up to the stock bits...

get teh GT25R

[Spectre23]

But it isn't a CA

[rico05]

SO it has an aluminum block, varible timing, and .2l on us.

[Spectre23]

But it isn't the same engine, it's that simple. All boostboy was saying is that a CA will take more work to get 300HP out of. He didn't say it was impossible. Just that it would take more than a T28. And showing dyno charts of an SR does not prove anything for the CA. I can show you Supra dyno charts with huge turbos, does that mean it will be the same on a CA with that same huge turbo? I wish.

[CA19DET]

Quote »But it isn't the same engine, it's that simple. All boostboy was saying is that a CA will take more work to get 300HP out of. He didn't say it was impossible. Just that it would take more than a T28. And showing dyno charts of an SR does not prove anything for the CA. I can show you Supra dyno charts with huge turbos, does that mean it will be the same on a CA with that same huge turbo? I wish.[/quote]you really think 189cc's make that much a difference?? and i think pauls SR is a red top without valve timing....

so instead of getting 357whp at 19.3psi, run 21psi and make 348whp. i dont get it

. he's looking for 300whp, no manifold needed to be fabricated, use a SR downpipe and o2 pipe,,,

you really think the SR has that much on CA's??

[Spectre23]

you really think the SR has that much on CA's??

I like the CA, but the fact is, it is not the same engine. I am not arguing better or worse. I am just saying it is different. And when boost_boy says it takes more than just bolting up a T28 to get 300 whp out of a CA I would have to believe him. Seeing as how is is one of the few that have actually done it. And since I have the GT28R and I know I am not at 300whp, that means that like boost_boy, I know it takes more than just dropping a T28 on the CA to do that power. In fact I am already maxing out my stock fueling with less boost than stock boost on this new turbo.

[CA19DET]

the GT28R and GT25R are totally different turbos and the GT25R out flows the GT28R by far and there are MANY dynops that prove this, there were many comparisons of teh SCC GT28R disco potato on a SR and the same boost on a GT25R on teh same engine and the GT25R was all over the potato turbo, anyway...

i still think that good engine, HG, a GT25R, some 480cc's, Emanage, 300zx AFM, FMIC, Walbro, 3" exhaust etc, will make 300whp easy... add some cams and other stuff and you may be looking at a lil more....

i am shooting for 400-500whp, and have the motor to do it with so the old T3/T04E are great for me and will offer the same spool as the GT25R but they offer bigger turbines to allow me to shoot for more power,but are more tedious in installing i know cause i just made a T3 top mount manifold and all required stuff to install it, i know my tubo can make 400+whp withou breaking a sweat, infact i plan to max out the T3/T04E and then get a GT30R and be able to compare dynos etc,

i have been cehcking out turbos for a while and really dont think a T3/T4 hybrid is needed. but can easil;y do it.

i still vote for the GT25R... and the SR VE isnt that much better than the CA's so i only thhink the diff in power would be about 20whp at the MOST!!! so if the SR is making 387 @ 19psi i am sure teh CA can muster up a conservative 340whp at the same 19psi...

i really wish i had sold my t3/to4e and got the gt25r to see what it would do....

[quest]

u can go to the uk forum and literally pick a 300hp combo.... plug n play. S14/5 t28 is a popular ca upgrade there. Not much difference between sr and ca power figures, same mods.FP $750 big28 is bolt on and will make 300whp on a ca18. I'd use the sr core because of the 0.64 exhaust/ better compressor housings.

GT small frame turbos cost too much for what u get. The "right" t3/4, at substantially lower price would spank it, with equal or better response too.I don't like how guys push GTs, for the sake of high hp figures... look what happens to torque.. and they still lag.Most likely u will crave for more once u hit 300, then its manifold time. I'd go; mitsu evoIII now, 20g later... or t3 now, t3/4 laterjust keepin' it real

Spectre23 if u got the hookup, maybe u can supply t28 upgrade centers. Post a contact if...

[Spectre23]

I don't like how guys push GTs, for the sake of high hp figures... look what happens to torque.. and they still lag.Most likely u will crave for more once u hit 300, then its manifold time. I'd go; mitsu evoIII now, 20g later... or t3 now, t3/4 laterjust keepin' it real

Spectre23 if u got the hookup, maybe u can supply t28 upgrade centers. Post a contact if...

I don't push the GT turbos, I just have mine since it was free and as for my hookup, it kind of only works for me. My dad owns a company that makes turbo sysytems. So he gets a lot of free ones from Garrett since he does so much business with them. He gets things before they are available to the public to help Garrett do testing on them. Kind of like a beta program hehehe.

[quest]

lucky u!

no, I meant how some sr guys who run gt turbos go to 0.86 hotsides, add cams, change intakes, etc..... to chase that elusive 400whp I guess. I wasn't saying that guys actually "push" those turbos, as in promote em.

[Spectre23]

ah, gotcha

[boost_boy]

Once again, there seem to be some folks that think the CA is an SR and you got another thing coming. Take a post of mine that gave real time duty cycles of a 50 lb/hr injector on the CA18DET. Max power you will squeeze out of those puppies on a 110 CID motor is around 350ish and that's pushing the injectors outside the normal duty cycle range. So what you're trying to tell me is that on a stock CA18 and GT25 series or A BIG T28 turbo, these guys are going to see 300hp? It is not just the turbo that makes these engines go, they just support it. And I guarantee you that any of those T2 small turbos on the CA18 will be straining to get anywhere near 300hp and I'm talking at the crank. Never said 300 was impossible, but who in the hell wants to be straining there precious and expensive GT turbo just to say "I got 300hp"!

Bottom line is, the performance charcteristics of the SR and the CA really needs to be kept in the closet because these two engines are nothing alike. The SR can perform below 3500rpm which is what makes it a good choice and the choice of most people whereas the CA just wakes up around 3200 which makes it (IMO) not the best choice for a street racing motor. Putting bigger cams on it only makes it worse in the fact that you'll gain more power mid and top end, but you'll lose what little bottom end power you got.

And check this out, after looking at my all my dyno sheets and comparing them to those of the ones that were posted, it proved indeed that discussing what an SR does has very little meaning in the CA forum. Ca guys should not be studying SR20DET charcteristics and dyno sheets because your CA won't be doing things like the SR and when the SR does them. Hell, you may as well buy yourself one if you're sold on it's performance because we truly own a different kind of motor.

Quote »you really think 189cc's make that much a difference?? [/quote] You're looking at the small picture, but yes I do!

Quote »u can go to the uk forum and literally pick a 300hp combo.... plug n play. S14/5 t28 is a popular ca upgrade there. Not much difference between sr and ca power figures, same mods.[/quote] I don't visit these forums or no anything about them, So I can't really say a thing about what the guys do in the UK, but it's still a T2 small with a bigger hotside and you are still going to strain it. We got guys here "pulsar_gtr" for one, that has a T3, some 50lb/hr injectors and he's hasn't crossed 300hp yet. And I know he's running up to 15-16psi of boost. And l for you boys that gots the extra loot to blow on a GT turbo, go right ahead because when it blow, I hope you got extra loot to buy another one. GT turbo on everyday, fun-having CA18s is not worth it. Like quest said, the mitsu turbos are good, but I'd personally lean towards the economical, but highly effective T3/T4 series.

On my old set up with a T3/T04B stage 1 with a .63 rear housing, the car mustered up 312.5whp and 263.9 lb/ft of torque and that was an everyday setting (no race fuel here). Now with a T3/T04E, it's more efficient, somewhat lazy and spools up about the same, but is way more responsive with the .48 housing which will choke off some HP and TQ.

Aaron, you should've built you an SR because I see the glittering love you have for it's performance. Unfortunately, your CA is bad mama-jama, but it ain't no SR and I'm not saying the SR is in any way, shape or form better than the CA, just the fact that it is a different engine. I think if we had a 2 litre CA, you may very well be singing a different note. I left my bore stoke on my built motor (1809cc or 110 CID) and I assure you, it will not be one to disappoint because of it's physical size.

Why do you think I do so much R&D on my g/f's CA, so I can back-up what I post and not post what I read someone else post about because I've most definitely seen lies posted about Hp.

Dyno tuning is one thing " A reference " . When you can tune on miles and miles of highway then your car is more subject to real time weather, temperatures and load. If you want a dyno queen, then tune your car on the dyno. If you want something you can get in and drive and enjoy as well as appreciate, then do like I do and tune it on the fly.

Lastly, too many of these SR guys have no a/c and in some cases no P/S. Isn't it true that the A/C and P/S robs you of Hp? Well, my g/f's car have both functioning/frosty A/C and some P/S to boot, so for the comfort thing, we can afford to lose some HP.

Too many variables from too many engines to compare one to the other. And this is indeed factual;) !

Dee

[boost_boy]

And I'll add to my last post, I've compared those dyno charts to my own and I must say that my lines are much more smoother than those. Very rough and unstable. Seems like the engine is getting forced to do something it's not too happy about. I don't have a scanner so if anyone wants to compare my 306whp @ 15psi dyno to that of the SR guys especially moving violation's because he and I have similar mods, I'll take a picture of it and you can try and host it.

Dee

[Dori Dori]

One thing, a GT28R is not a Disco Potato, that's a GT28RS.

Second, a GT25r has a T04S Compressor housing. It is the only 'T2' series turbo I'd say to get for a 300whp-ish CA18 application. You won't be able to run the amount of boost you can on a t3/t4 because the exhaust is too small...the turbo is too mismatched, but you can run up to 20-ish psi which should be good for the 300+whp range. As I said in my first post and Boostboy has mentioned is that you don't want to be maxing out a turbo at your goals. It's a much better idea to go with a turbo that offers more than you want (not too much more of course). If all you want is 300whp, a GT25r would your starting block for turbos.

[Doogz]

Originally, i was shooting for 300whp and my weapon of choice would have been a T3/T04E 46 trim. However, i decided that i really didn't want to mess with the exhaust manifold yet and i'm just gonna slap on a GT28R turbo. I'm gonna set it somewhere between 12-15 psi and whatever power it puts out, then that is where it will stay and it won't be pushed any harder. It's really just a matter of how bad you want to hit that 300whp mark. If its not that important and you are just looking for a bolt on performance upgrade, then by all means pick up that turbo and purchase the necessary supporting mods and go. If you want bigger numbers, then you better start looking at a bigger turbo.

[CA19DET]

Quote »And I guarantee you that any of those T2 small turbos on the CA18 will be straining to get anywhere near 300hp and I'm talking at the crank. Never said 300 was impossible, but who in the hell wants to be straining there precious and expensive GT turbo just to say "I got 300hp"![/quote]sorry man i dont agree... at 20-24psi (around the max for the GT25R .86 & .64) you mean to tell me the CA will be making 300 at the crank?? so the UK guys making ~300whp with S14 & S15 turbos and supporting mods are doing somehting we are not, cause the GT25R way out preforms any of those.

i still say that these are the power available from these turbos based on what they can FLOW, not what engine they are on.. (assuming DOHC Inline 4 cylinder with decent VE)

300 whp - S15 turbo (GT28R)330 whp - GT28RS (.64 A/R!!!!)350 whp - GT25R (.64 A/R)400 whp - GT25R (.86 A/R)

i'm still going to support the new GT series turbos for chasing the 300-350whp level, from discussing this topic on Freshalloy with Enthapy and Vapour (Guys at Secret Services) and allot of other very knowledable turbo and nissan guys they have the most experiance with these turbos, Sr's and inline 4 turbo performance and at first they all shared your and at the time my skeptisism about the GT turbos, and all have been changed, including myself, who started the post about the GT25R vs the T3/TO4E shooting for 400whp,. and i was told the GT25R .86 would be a good pick for my CA with my mods (bigger injectors) runnin about 20-24psi.

and if 50lb injectors are too small get bigger, its easier than a manifold swap for a t3 family turbo, and allot cehaper cause you'll need to get bigger fuel mods if you got a t3/t4 anyway,

Quote »Aaron, you should've built you an SR because I see the glittering love you have for it's performance.[/quote]what a load of crap...i love the new GT turbos. i should have gotten a GT25R and proven all you wrong. and if the T3/T04E can be sold i jsut may weld a T25 flange on there and do it. and to be honest cant you see the "glittering love" i have for the CA's too, hell i think i have spent the most money and have the best/strongest built on the boards... and hope to have the most powerfull VERY soon.

[CA19DET]

and Danno's dyno was so shifty cause he was having an ignition problem,

boost boy i would host your photos, i would love to compare the boost level, whp, A/F, tourque curve etc....

[Dori Dori]

I think it should be stressed over and over that a GT25r has a T04S compressor housing. It's big!

I don' think a GT25r will take you as far as a T3/T4 could only because of the tiny t2 exhaust.