Turbo upgrade
Quote »I don' think a GT25r will take you as far as a T3/T4 could only because of the tiny t2 exhaust.[/quote]i agree totally... the GT25R (GT25/40R) .86 will reach a limit of about 440hp - 390WHP where the T3/T04E with the .63 stage 3 turbine, could easily reach that at about the same boost, but cause of the bigger T31 turbine could handle allot more boost, and w/ the .86 turbine and a Stage 5 wheel it would easily see ~500whp but with more lag. but at that point i would try the GT30R or even the GT35R.
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boost_boy
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Quote »hell i think i have spent the most money and have the best/strongest built on the boards... and hope to have the most powerfull VERY soon.[/quote] You may have spent the most money, but you're gonna have to put your money where your mouth is on that last comment about your hopes of having the best and strongest build on the boards. You may put yours to the test before mine, but I look forward to an in-house power challenge.
The 50 lb/hr injectors were used as a reference because most guys here seem to think they are the way to go. They are if you're looking for 300whp. That's why I put 72 lb/hr injectors on my g/f's car. Mine will be using 96 lb/hr injectors. An dI'll assemble my car after this next NHRA even on the 17th-18th of this month.
Realistically, the talk of GT turbos in this forum is almost out of the question because of most people's budget constraints. Most guys want o thrash and revv on their engines and don't want the added stress of knowing there's a grave possibility that they're going to tear-up a $1400+ piece of equipment with no warranty.
Quote »sorry man i dont agree... at 20-24psi (around the max for the GT25R .86 & .64) you mean to tell me the CA will be making 300 at the crank??[/quote] No man, I didn't say that! I mean at 20-24psi and especially if the turbo can even keep up, it should make around 300+. We or at least I was talking about any turbo on a car that's not fortified to support the flow of the turbo. I don't care if you got a T88, you're not going to do anything if you don't have a supporting cast. And with a T25 or T28 and 16psi of constant boost, you will need more than those crappy 370cc injectors.
As for manifolds, I made the 312whp with a stock manifold and welded T3 flange that was leaking raw exhaust horribly. Quote »I think it should be stressed over and over that a GT25r has a T04S compressor housing.[/quote] With a T04S compressor, the CA will have it's work cut out and you will be working it. I'll say this and we'll move on, put the big turbo with the big back housings on your CA18s and come back and tell us how it goes.
Dee
The 50 lb/hr injectors were used as a reference because most guys here seem to think they are the way to go. They are if you're looking for 300whp. That's why I put 72 lb/hr injectors on my g/f's car. Mine will be using 96 lb/hr injectors. An dI'll assemble my car after this next NHRA even on the 17th-18th of this month.
Realistically, the talk of GT turbos in this forum is almost out of the question because of most people's budget constraints. Most guys want o thrash and revv on their engines and don't want the added stress of knowing there's a grave possibility that they're going to tear-up a $1400+ piece of equipment with no warranty.
Quote »sorry man i dont agree... at 20-24psi (around the max for the GT25R .86 & .64) you mean to tell me the CA will be making 300 at the crank??[/quote] No man, I didn't say that! I mean at 20-24psi and especially if the turbo can even keep up, it should make around 300+. We or at least I was talking about any turbo on a car that's not fortified to support the flow of the turbo. I don't care if you got a T88, you're not going to do anything if you don't have a supporting cast. And with a T25 or T28 and 16psi of constant boost, you will need more than those crappy 370cc injectors.
As for manifolds, I made the 312whp with a stock manifold and welded T3 flange that was leaking raw exhaust horribly. Quote »I think it should be stressed over and over that a GT25r has a T04S compressor housing.[/quote] With a T04S compressor, the CA will have it's work cut out and you will be working it. I'll say this and we'll move on, put the big turbo with the big back housings on your CA18s and come back and tell us how it goes.
Dee
boost_boy wrote:You may have spent the most money, but you're gonna have to put your money where your mouth is on that last comment about your hopes of having the best and strongest build on the boards. You may put yours to the test before mine, but I look forward to an in-house power challenge.
Oooo, i wanna watch you guys battle it out with some hot CA on CA action!
i am up for any challenge Dee, and i have always been know to back up my smack talk,... hope you ready to bring out the big guns, cause i got mine loaded,. and that lil .48 t3/t4 and cracked manifold aint gonna work.
and you saying that i am looking at the small picture when it comes to the CA18 being 186cc's smaller than the SR when you make these kinda comments all the time in your threads:
Quote »So for the record, the CA18DET will do just as much damage if not more than the SR with comparable mods. The FWD CA18DET will stomp a mud-hole in the FWD SR20DET engines in both design and all-out performance to include transmission. I can whack-off 120mph in 3rd gear@7500rpm and not worry about my gearbox flying apart, but who cares; no one. Who cares if people claim to pump x-amount of HP on a stock SR bottom end? [/quote]http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....+dyno
so i am thinking again that the SR only has a very few ponies on us with the same bolt ons.. we agree on that...
ANYWAY
i still say get the GT25R (some are calling it the GT25/40R on theri websites) from cheapturbo.com tell us how it works, get the .64 turbine..
and you saying that i am looking at the small picture when it comes to the CA18 being 186cc's smaller than the SR when you make these kinda comments all the time in your threads:
Quote »So for the record, the CA18DET will do just as much damage if not more than the SR with comparable mods. The FWD CA18DET will stomp a mud-hole in the FWD SR20DET engines in both design and all-out performance to include transmission. I can whack-off 120mph in 3rd gear@7500rpm and not worry about my gearbox flying apart, but who cares; no one. Who cares if people claim to pump x-amount of HP on a stock SR bottom end? [/quote]http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....+dyno
so i am thinking again that the SR only has a very few ponies on us with the same bolt ons.. we agree on that...
ANYWAY
i still say get the GT25R (some are calling it the GT25/40R on theri websites) from cheapturbo.com tell us how it works, get the .64 turbine..
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r34 gtr
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sorry to break up your fight, but i really dont know what exactly i should do for a turbo. i can get a gt28 from cheapturbo.com for $860, which would be nice, or i could go with a t3/t04e 48 trim for whatever i can find it for on ebay plus the cost of a manifold and wastegate. i think the gt28 would probably be more cost-effective. im not bothered about power as long as its above about 250 at the wheels and it looks like ill only have about 510cc/min injectors so i dont know if a t3/t04e is all that good an idea. im not worried about killing it, so spending alot on it doesnt bother me. i just want my car to be fun.
- tim
- tim
Quote »sorry to break up your fight, but i really dont know what exactly i should do for a turbo. i can get a gt28 from cheapturbo.com for $860[/quote]glad its gone back to the topic 
anyway, for the extra ~$200 (if yo can afford) you can get the GT25R and surpass the performance of the T28. it too is bolt on, internal wastegate, same oil/water lines, downpipe and o2 pipe all can be re-used, cheapturbo.com & extremeboost.com sell them for around a $1000, i think you can get a warranty on them too...
also have you looked at the Forced Performance (http://www.forcedperformance.com) BigT28, its a T28 hybrid that can make a little more HP than the S4/S15 T28 and alittle less than the GT25R but is still bolt up etc and its a new refurbished turbo, so it comes with warranty etc..
anyway, for the extra ~$200 (if yo can afford) you can get the GT25R and surpass the performance of the T28. it too is bolt on, internal wastegate, same oil/water lines, downpipe and o2 pipe all can be re-used, cheapturbo.com & extremeboost.com sell them for around a $1000, i think you can get a warranty on them too...
also have you looked at the Forced Performance (http://www.forcedperformance.com) BigT28, its a T28 hybrid that can make a little more HP than the S4/S15 T28 and alittle less than the GT25R but is still bolt up etc and its a new refurbished turbo, so it comes with warranty etc..
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r34 gtr
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thanks, im thinking something with a t25 flange and an internal wastegate would better suit me. and not that i would ever buy it, but what the crap is this thing? (was looking for gt series turbos on ebay and it came up).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...33742
- tim
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...33742
- tim
some hptos of the BigT28 from FP
Quote »Thank you, drive through.Our goal with the FP-Big28 was similar to its FP-T28/28 predecessor… to create a fast spooling, bolt on turbo that got up and went. We wanted to give the FP-Big28 a little more "umph" than the T-28, but when we strapped one on a 2G AWD and took it to the track, the results knocked us on our ***. At 21psi, the FP-Big28 pulled our full weight 99 GSX to an [email protected]. [/quote]
Quote »Thank you, drive through.Our goal with the FP-Big28 was similar to its FP-T28/28 predecessor… to create a fast spooling, bolt on turbo that got up and went. We wanted to give the FP-Big28 a little more "umph" than the T-28, but when we strapped one on a 2G AWD and took it to the track, the results knocked us on our ***. At 21psi, the FP-Big28 pulled our full weight 99 GSX to an [email protected]. [/quote]
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GoofyATX240
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GoofyATX240
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float_6969
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Tim, that is a VNT Garrett Turbo. VNT stands for Variable Nozzle Turbo. They're pretty cool and have almost instantanious spool time. Unfortunatly, they are generally used on econ/gasmizers for motors so they are generally pretty small. Chrystler played with them for a little bit in the late 80's too.
Go here for more info:http://www.technologie-entwick....htmlhttp://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_vnt.htmlhttp://www.thedodgegarage.com/....html
Go here for more info:http://www.technologie-entwick....htmlhttp://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_vnt.htmlhttp://www.thedodgegarage.com/....html
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r34 gtr
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yeah, thats what i thought it was ryan, just wanted to make sure. seemed wierd that it had "gt" in it though, thought maybe it was special.
i thought the dsm's exhaust flange was a little bit bigger than the ca's t25 flange, if this is the case then will that turbo even fit? i wouldnt want to get it only to have it not go on, as that would suck. also, what about the clearance issues with the compressor housing of the gt25r and the stock manifold? someone mentioned that the gt28rs only cleared the stocker by a miniscule amount.
if i go with a gt series turbo i will want to use the stock manifold, so i cant be dealing with fitment issues due to size of stuff.
- tim
i thought the dsm's exhaust flange was a little bit bigger than the ca's t25 flange, if this is the case then will that turbo even fit? i wouldnt want to get it only to have it not go on, as that would suck. also, what about the clearance issues with the compressor housing of the gt25r and the stock manifold? someone mentioned that the gt28rs only cleared the stocker by a miniscule amount.
if i go with a gt series turbo i will want to use the stock manifold, so i cant be dealing with fitment issues due to size of stuff.
- tim
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GoofyATX240
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r34 gtr
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oh, hey. something interesting i just happened across. apparently garrett makes a gt25r that is not much bigger than a sr t25, they call it the gt25r. the turbo everyone is referring to is the gt25/40r, or so garrett seems to call it. just wanted to let everyone know there is another gt25r thats just a lil guy only rated for 250hp.
i found the gt28r for a mere 750 bucks shipped, brand new, so i think im going to go with that. they say it flows 310hp and have maps to prove it. this should be exellent for me, especially for the price.
- tim
edit: i also found a map for the t3/t04e that dee is using and its good for about 380hp. got a map for the gt25/40r that shows its good to 450hp. i will give dee the upper hand though, because while the gt guys are sol over 450, dee can just throw on another (relatively cheap, too) t3/t04 and beat the pants off them, which im thinking is the idea.
i found the gt28r for a mere 750 bucks shipped, brand new, so i think im going to go with that. they say it flows 310hp and have maps to prove it. this should be exellent for me, especially for the price.
- tim
edit: i also found a map for the t3/t04e that dee is using and its good for about 380hp. got a map for the gt25/40r that shows its good to 450hp. i will give dee the upper hand though, because while the gt guys are sol over 450, dee can just throw on another (relatively cheap, too) t3/t04 and beat the pants off them, which im thinking is the idea.
I'd bet you got those 'facts' from ATP turbo right? Don't believe the hype.
And nobody is saying a GT25r (or GT25/40 if your shopping at ATP) is a suitable replacement for a T3/T4. We're just saying it will make over 300hp on a CA and bolts onto the stock manifold, saving people from having to get a top mount manifold and downpipe made. It's easily the largest bolt-on turbo for the CA. With D's manifold, he can rock a lot of much larger turbos.
And nobody is saying a GT25r (or GT25/40 if your shopping at ATP) is a suitable replacement for a T3/T4. We're just saying it will make over 300hp on a CA and bolts onto the stock manifold, saving people from having to get a top mount manifold and downpipe made. It's easily the largest bolt-on turbo for the CA. With D's manifold, he can rock a lot of much larger turbos.
what you want is that GT25R (i too posted that they sometimes call it the GT25/40R cause it is a copy of the HKS GT2540R series turbo) cehapturbo.com and extremeboost.com sell it, the version that http://www.atpturbo.com sells is a smaller GT25R, which really is just a T25 w/ GT center.
ther equivilant to the GT25R is the GT2871: 53.85mm turbine wheel 71mm compressor wheel good for the smae ~400 HP.
and a good example of these new GT turbos on a 1.8 are found on ATP website:
Quote »What happens when ATP takes a popular production Honda kit and tosses the T3/T4E for a GT28RS drop-in?
Even on the .82 A/R GT28RS, it makes boost 1500 rpm sooner than the .63 A/R T3/T4 and builds more power across the entire rpm band. Outlines the horsepower potential of the GT28RS and dispells the myths about large A/R's on small 4 cylinder engines!
Test Vehicle: '93 Acura Integra GSR with Brand X bolt-on turbo kit.
Fuel:-375cc RC Injectors-Vortech Fuel Management Unit-In Line Fuel Pump
Implementation:Old "T" Turbo: T3/T4E - .63 A/R Turbine housing New "GT" Turbo: GT28RS - ATP GT30 T3 Style drop-in - .82 A/R turbine housing[/quote]
GT28RS vs T3T4
GT28RS vs T3T4 with more fuel.
here you can see that the 1.8 GSR motor is making over 340 at the crank w/ this little GT28RS, full bosst by 3600RPM, then it;s all VTEC, but anyways, shows how well the GT28RS spools and the power potential, these test were at 10psi.. imagine 18psi !!! but that would require bigger injectors...
ther equivilant to the GT25R is the GT2871: 53.85mm turbine wheel 71mm compressor wheel good for the smae ~400 HP.
and a good example of these new GT turbos on a 1.8 are found on ATP website:
Quote »What happens when ATP takes a popular production Honda kit and tosses the T3/T4E for a GT28RS drop-in?
Even on the .82 A/R GT28RS, it makes boost 1500 rpm sooner than the .63 A/R T3/T4 and builds more power across the entire rpm band. Outlines the horsepower potential of the GT28RS and dispells the myths about large A/R's on small 4 cylinder engines!
Test Vehicle: '93 Acura Integra GSR with Brand X bolt-on turbo kit.
Fuel:-375cc RC Injectors-Vortech Fuel Management Unit-In Line Fuel Pump
Implementation:Old "T" Turbo: T3/T4E - .63 A/R Turbine housing New "GT" Turbo: GT28RS - ATP GT30 T3 Style drop-in - .82 A/R turbine housing[/quote]
GT28RS vs T3T4
GT28RS vs T3T4 with more fuel.
here you can see that the 1.8 GSR motor is making over 340 at the crank w/ this little GT28RS, full bosst by 3600RPM, then it;s all VTEC, but anyways, shows how well the GT28RS spools and the power potential, these test were at 10psi.. imagine 18psi !!! but that would require bigger injectors...
Quote »edit: i also found a map for the t3/t04e that dee is using and its good for about 380hp. got a map for the gt25/40r that shows its good to 450hp. i will give dee the upper hand though, because while the gt guys are sol over 450, dee can just throw on another (relatively cheap, too) t3/t04 and beat the pants off them, which im thinking is the idea.[/quote]the 50 Trim T3/T04E can make over 450hp easily with the .63 stage 3 T31 turbine (SR dynos were 463whp i think), and with the stage 5 wheel and .86 turbine over 500hp. the .48 will probably run out of breath around 350 i guess, if this is the one he has,
the 60 Trim can flow even more with its bigger compressor...
the 60 Trim can flow even more with its bigger compressor...
extremeboost.com has the GT25/40R i am talking about:
GT25R Roller Bearing Turbo (400hp)T04S Compressor (48 Trim) .70 A/RT28 Turbine housing (76 Trim) .64 & .86 A/R44 lbs/min (Includes Internal Wastegate)eXtremeBoost Retail: $1450
thats a big compressor and 4" inlet...
& little more expensive than cheap turbo but the same thing:
DUAL GT STEEL BALL BEARING CENTER SECTIONTURBINE SPECS: T25.86 A/R HOUSING76 TRIM GT SERIES WHEELCOMPRESSOR SPECS: TO4S HOUSING.70 A/R HOUSING48 TRIM GT SERIES WHEELCOMPRESSOR FLOW: 44 LBS/MIN4 INCH INLETNormal price: $1,495.00 OUR price: $1,089.00
GT25R Roller Bearing Turbo (400hp)T04S Compressor (48 Trim) .70 A/RT28 Turbine housing (76 Trim) .64 & .86 A/R44 lbs/min (Includes Internal Wastegate)eXtremeBoost Retail: $1450
thats a big compressor and 4" inlet...
& little more expensive than cheap turbo but the same thing:
DUAL GT STEEL BALL BEARING CENTER SECTIONTURBINE SPECS: T25.86 A/R HOUSING76 TRIM GT SERIES WHEELCOMPRESSOR SPECS: TO4S HOUSING.70 A/R HOUSING48 TRIM GT SERIES WHEELCOMPRESSOR FLOW: 44 LBS/MIN4 INCH INLETNormal price: $1,495.00 OUR price: $1,089.00
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r34 gtr
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i kept wondering where the hell they would put the wastegate actuaror on that thing! it doesnt look like it would even be able to try to clear the compressor housing! anyway, ive got the feeling a gt series will be better suited for my needs at this moment, i can always go with a hybrid t3/t04 at at later date.
the engine will be able to handle it, but ill only have those #51 or whatever MSD injectors ive still gotta send dee the money for, so i dont know what my fuel system will be up for safely. for $750 the gt28r sounds like a good deal, but im willing to go with the gt28rs or gt25r if someone can give me some good reasons.
im going to order the gt28r tonight if no one can persuade me otherwise.
- tim
the engine will be able to handle it, but ill only have those #51 or whatever MSD injectors ive still gotta send dee the money for, so i dont know what my fuel system will be up for safely. for $750 the gt28r sounds like a good deal, but im willing to go with the gt28rs or gt25r if someone can give me some good reasons.
im going to order the gt28r tonight if no one can persuade me otherwise.
- tim
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boost_boy
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I just went a step further by having a 60-1 wheel and a .60 A/R housing fitted to my stage 3 shaft and .48 rear housing. If you're chasing peak HP on a T3/T4 set-up, then go with .63 housing for our 1809cc wonder. But if you're out for the adventure and want to get into your power zone quickly, the .48 is the lick and if you can ever find a .36, you will have the quickest spooling monster around (I found one, but not sure if it's .36 or .39). Once again, a GSR 1.8 is no CA18DE or DET. Totally different platform and is a tad bigger and uses a mechanical/electrical additive (or VTEC) to increase power in the upper rpm range. That dyno seems biased and I really don't think that the power differences between the two is that great. And which T3/T4 are we referring to here? I've had the lowest of the low T3/T04B stage 1 and at 12psi of boost, my g/f's car put out 282.6whp and 240.2 ft/lbs of torque and I paid $400 for that turbo which was at full boost at 3300rpm. there needs to be more comparison of said turbos amongst other CA18DET owners than of others such as SR20DET, Honda GSR Vtec stuff, etc, etc.
I mean because there is no useable data in these dyno graphs that would help us see where the CA18DET will be. All we see is what those other engines did with a turbo that maybe of interest to us; but nothing that we can conclude or is concrete. Until someone takes a CA18DET and personally experiments with these units, it's going to be very hard to pedal info about these GT units using dyno graphs from other engines with different characteristics than the CA18DET.
I am convinced that the GT series turbos are efficient enough for the CA18DET, but I think the issue here is the cost-effectiveness of these units in such a budget-minded community. I was offered sponsorship on a GT3037, but at the same time was swayed by my turbo builder with the fact that if and when it broke, I would be forced to pay for a new one out of pocket.
I am rough and ragged when it comes to my turbos and engines and since I can get my turbos redone for nearly pennies on the dollar, I'll take my chances with the old faithful hybrids. The rich and crazy can run the ball bearing units. The unsung hero of the performance kingdom would have to be the T3/T4 hybrids which come in so many different configurations to suit all needs of the performance junky.
Dee
I mean because there is no useable data in these dyno graphs that would help us see where the CA18DET will be. All we see is what those other engines did with a turbo that maybe of interest to us; but nothing that we can conclude or is concrete. Until someone takes a CA18DET and personally experiments with these units, it's going to be very hard to pedal info about these GT units using dyno graphs from other engines with different characteristics than the CA18DET.
I am convinced that the GT series turbos are efficient enough for the CA18DET, but I think the issue here is the cost-effectiveness of these units in such a budget-minded community. I was offered sponsorship on a GT3037, but at the same time was swayed by my turbo builder with the fact that if and when it broke, I would be forced to pay for a new one out of pocket.
I am rough and ragged when it comes to my turbos and engines and since I can get my turbos redone for nearly pennies on the dollar, I'll take my chances with the old faithful hybrids. The rich and crazy can run the ball bearing units. The unsung hero of the performance kingdom would have to be the T3/T4 hybrids which come in so many different configurations to suit all needs of the performance junky.
Dee
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boost_boy
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Remember this guys, we are having a friendly discussion about engines and turbines, so please don't assume that I'm pissing on anyone. I love these discussions and I commend Aaron for bringing up good info on the ball bearing stuff, but I'm trying to be realistic and stay away from things that are out of the average CA owners price range. And no, I'm not saying ball bearing units are not strong; they are very strong. Just that if something accidentally got caught-up in your blower and ruined it, and you had just spent your school money to purchase it, you're up $hitz creek without a paddle. Alright, back on topic........
Dee
Dee
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boost_boy
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Quote »To r34) It's too small to warrant the price. Get a t28 and be happy.[/quote] Even I would accept this. I had a SR T25 done for one of our board member's CA motorset he purchased from me, but I had it twisted a bit. It now sports T3 blades and he got a fresh cartridge all for under $500 and I'm pretty sure that he should be able to see very close if not over 300whp. I used to use a similar turbo which allowed me to whack a WRX, smoke an audiTT, S2000 and a turbocharged IS300 on the highway at over 160mph. And even thought the turbo got killed shortly after, it was very cheap to rebuild, but I sold it to a guy with an SR20 in Tampa. Those sneaky little hybrids work just fine for the low-budget booster. It just that it's not wise to be sustaining 15-18psi on the highway for nearly an hours time. I enjoyed killing it:devil .
Dee
Dee
Quote » Once again, a GSR 1.8 is no CA18DE or DET. Totally different platform and is a tad bigger and uses a mechanical/electrical additive (or VTEC) to increase power in the upper rpm range. That dyno seems biased and I really don't think that the power differences between the two is that great. And which T3/T4 are we referring to here? [/quote]the turbo spooled way before teh v-tec even kicked in on this dyno, unfortunately i dont know what t3/t4 it was. sure it was T3/to4b 57 trim,.. .63 blah blah blah,,,
anyway it shows it on a 1.8 motor... with similar AF of 36lb/m
(and the SR is 40lb/m so it isnt that much of a difference in performance between the SR and CA ~40hp at MAX so SR's making 360whp w/ GT25R, Ca's should theriotically make 320whp at the smae boost)
also
how could you really reccomend the .48 or even the puny little .36, thats a terrible miss-match for the T04E compressor and will hurt any sort of flow that compressor may have.. the .48 will not flow enough exhaust gasses to reach any sort of effieciency zone, i think 12-14psi will be the max, where the T04E compressor with a 1.8 motor will be in wonderland around 20+psi boost (76-78% efficiency on the compressor map AF=36 and PR=2.4)
Quote »I am convinced that the GT series turbos are efficient enough for the CA18DET, but I think the issue here is the cost-effectiveness of these units in such a budget-minded community. I was offered sponsorship on a GT3037, but at the same time was swayed by my turbo builder with the fact that if and when it broke, I would be forced to pay for a new one out of pocket.[/quote]cost: huh?
T3/T04E - $600-$800Wastegate - $250+T3 custom Manifold - $500-$800custom 02 pipe & custom Down pipe - $200-300Flanges & Gaskets - $150Oil lines & Fittings - $100install - ???
bolt on solutions - GT28RS - $800 - (suggested HKS actuator)GT25R - $1024 - (suggested HKS actuator)
and GT series turbos dont just blow up, and most of them as being new, come with a waranty... the only one i have heard of letting go was movingviolations when his manifold broke and piece toasted his turbo, this is not the turbos fault,,, and would have lived for years like any other turbo.
T3/T4 hybrids are technology of the 70's, old things, desil truck turbos, time to step up to the future, and the GT series is the future of turbo technology, the new GT25R, GT30R, GT35R, GT40R and GT45R are taking over the compact world, and time will tell. i know i am right on this otherwise GARRETT and HKS would not be spending all this time and money developing the GT series for comapct cars..
Quote »(To r34) It's too small to warrant the price. Get a t28 and be happy.[/quote]I would reccomend the GT25R again for the same reason i ahd in the past, easy bolt on, allot of people are using them now with fantastic results. but if price is your thing the S15 T28 is a great option and proven quick spooler, good for about 280-300hp. but they are a bit expensive these days,
i think i have exhausted myself trying to keep up with this post, you are on your own buddy, i have posted the info, others have contested it, some have supported, you make the decision, but i am sure you'll be happy with either turbo series..
Quote » Boost_boy wrote:So what you're trying to tell me is that on a stock CA18 and GT25 series or A BIG T28 turbo, these guys are going to see 300hp? It is not just the turbo that makes these engines go, they just support it. And I guarantee you that any of those T2 small turbos on the CA18 will be straining to get anywhere near 300hp and I'm talking at the crank. Never said 300 was impossible, but who in the hell wants to be straining there precious and expensive GT turbo just to say "I got 300hp"![/quote]Quote »boost_boy wrote:Even I would accept this. I had a SR T25 done for one of our board member's CA motorset he purchased from me, but I had it twisted a bit. It now sports T3 blades and he got a fresh cartridge all for under $500 and I'm pretty sure that he should be able to see very close if not over 300whp. I used to use a similar turbo which allowed me to whack a WRX, smoke an audiTT, S2000 and a turbocharged IS300 on the highway at over 160mph. And even thought the turbo got killed shortly after, it was very cheap to rebuild, but I sold it to a guy with an SR20 in Tampa. Those sneaky little hybrids work just fine for the low-budget booster. It just that it's not wise to be sustaining 15-18psi on the highway for nearly an hours time. I enjoyed killing it .
[/quote]so can T25's make 300hp or not....
hmmmmmmmmmm......
anyway it shows it on a 1.8 motor... with similar AF of 36lb/m
(and the SR is 40lb/m so it isnt that much of a difference in performance between the SR and CA ~40hp at MAX so SR's making 360whp w/ GT25R, Ca's should theriotically make 320whp at the smae boost)
also
how could you really reccomend the .48 or even the puny little .36, thats a terrible miss-match for the T04E compressor and will hurt any sort of flow that compressor may have.. the .48 will not flow enough exhaust gasses to reach any sort of effieciency zone, i think 12-14psi will be the max, where the T04E compressor with a 1.8 motor will be in wonderland around 20+psi boost (76-78% efficiency on the compressor map AF=36 and PR=2.4)
Quote »I am convinced that the GT series turbos are efficient enough for the CA18DET, but I think the issue here is the cost-effectiveness of these units in such a budget-minded community. I was offered sponsorship on a GT3037, but at the same time was swayed by my turbo builder with the fact that if and when it broke, I would be forced to pay for a new one out of pocket.[/quote]cost: huh?
T3/T04E - $600-$800Wastegate - $250+T3 custom Manifold - $500-$800custom 02 pipe & custom Down pipe - $200-300Flanges & Gaskets - $150Oil lines & Fittings - $100install - ???
bolt on solutions - GT28RS - $800 - (suggested HKS actuator)GT25R - $1024 - (suggested HKS actuator)
and GT series turbos dont just blow up, and most of them as being new, come with a waranty... the only one i have heard of letting go was movingviolations when his manifold broke and piece toasted his turbo, this is not the turbos fault,,, and would have lived for years like any other turbo.
T3/T4 hybrids are technology of the 70's, old things, desil truck turbos, time to step up to the future, and the GT series is the future of turbo technology, the new GT25R, GT30R, GT35R, GT40R and GT45R are taking over the compact world, and time will tell. i know i am right on this otherwise GARRETT and HKS would not be spending all this time and money developing the GT series for comapct cars..
Quote »(To r34) It's too small to warrant the price. Get a t28 and be happy.[/quote]I would reccomend the GT25R again for the same reason i ahd in the past, easy bolt on, allot of people are using them now with fantastic results. but if price is your thing the S15 T28 is a great option and proven quick spooler, good for about 280-300hp. but they are a bit expensive these days,
i think i have exhausted myself trying to keep up with this post, you are on your own buddy, i have posted the info, others have contested it, some have supported, you make the decision, but i am sure you'll be happy with either turbo series..
Quote » Boost_boy wrote:So what you're trying to tell me is that on a stock CA18 and GT25 series or A BIG T28 turbo, these guys are going to see 300hp? It is not just the turbo that makes these engines go, they just support it. And I guarantee you that any of those T2 small turbos on the CA18 will be straining to get anywhere near 300hp and I'm talking at the crank. Never said 300 was impossible, but who in the hell wants to be straining there precious and expensive GT turbo just to say "I got 300hp"![/quote]Quote »boost_boy wrote:Even I would accept this. I had a SR T25 done for one of our board member's CA motorset he purchased from me, but I had it twisted a bit. It now sports T3 blades and he got a fresh cartridge all for under $500 and I'm pretty sure that he should be able to see very close if not over 300whp. I used to use a similar turbo which allowed me to whack a WRX, smoke an audiTT, S2000 and a turbocharged IS300 on the highway at over 160mph. And even thought the turbo got killed shortly after, it was very cheap to rebuild, but I sold it to a guy with an SR20 in Tampa. Those sneaky little hybrids work just fine for the low-budget booster. It just that it's not wise to be sustaining 15-18psi on the highway for nearly an hours time. I enjoyed killing it .
[/quote]so can T25's make 300hp or not....
hmmmmmmmmmm......
-
boost_boy
- Posts: 7051
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- Location: Miami, FL.
- Contact:
Quote »so can T25's make 300hp or not....[/quote] All depends on what you got to fortify it with. On the stock CA fuel system, forget it. The stock T25 ain't going to make no 300hp on a ca18det without some sort of serious compromise if at all. This T25 I speak of is not a T25 anymore. If it's using bigger wheels and have been modified, I can't classify it as a tee deuce and a five cent piece.
Quote »how could you really reccomend the .48 or even the puny little .36, thats a terrible miss-match for the T04E compressor and will hurt any sort of flow that compressor may have.. the .48 will not flow enough exhaust gasses to reach any sort of effieciency zone[/quote] Simple! The .63 provides more lag (considerably more) than the .48. With the loss of about 15--25hp, but gaining spoolability is no big compromise. I know because I've actually done the comparison and on more than one ocassion, so I speak pure facts on an otherwise stock CA18DET. Your motor is built and we have no real clue as to what was done to most other motors you use as a reference, so neither of them is any good to the general CA public. Someone needed to exploit the motor for what it was worth and have concluded that a stock CA18DET can take as much punishment as you can dish out granted it wasn't beat down before you got it. But you won't get anywhere fast with a turbo that's too big and that's for sure. You wait! I can't wait till you take your engine out for a spin. Maybe then and only then you will realize that our poor CA18s don't need a crap load of turbo and huge back housings to be effective at building power.
If I can take a hybrid T2/T3 and run off some big hp cars, or take a t3/T04B stage 1 and stomp off in the azz of Z06 vettes, C5 vettes, a Ferarri (for Christ's sake), turbocharged integras, boosted civic Sis, with a 60-1 and a JWT ecu smoke a 3rd gen RX-7 that was boosting 12psi to my 12 psi and make him pop his motor, anything is possible. But with the amount of lag I get from the T3/T04E 60-1 stage 3 with .63 backhousing, what makes you think your built motor with hot cams is going to do any better down low (it won't). You will build big power up in the rpm range, but you will suffer below 3500rpm, unless your compression has been raised and your timing is advanced enough in the lower rpm range to keep the engine from falling asleep from boredom below 4000rpm. That is the reason why I mentioned the .48 rear housing. It works and is the recommended back housing for 1800cc engines, at least by the folks that I deal with and most of these people are credible.
A friend of mine has a 12 second SR20DET powered S13 that uses a T3/T04E stage 5 with a .48 rear housing and he doesn't like the fact that his power doesn't come on till 4500rpm. He's not a big drag racer more of a drifter, but now he wants to sell his turbo for something more suitable. I could have a stage 5 wheel too, but why? More lag? The point I'm trying to make is certain turbos seem to tickle certain engine's fancy and do jack for others.
I'll tell you what, why don't you scrap your T3/T04E and go get one of the Ball bearing units and tell us how it goes. No one here is using a ball bearing unit at this time, so you will be a 1st.
Lastly, you strike me as a salesman trying to push a product that you haven't tested yourself. You have given all the technical mumbo-jumbo about what does what, but yet there aren't many CA guys who have even sniffed at the thought of a ballbearing turbo. Half the guys on this forum don't have the bread to even upgrade their fuel sytem to support that much turbo, let alone flinch at the thought of breaking one and having to buy another. At least there have been users of the T3/T4 series in the CA community (Movingviolation, drumma022) whom both have switched to SR20DET engines. As for myself, I am given the hardware (turbochargers) to experiment with on my motors and I have concluded that best bang for the buck is the T3/T4 series blowers for our beloved CA18DET motors.
Dee
Quote »how could you really reccomend the .48 or even the puny little .36, thats a terrible miss-match for the T04E compressor and will hurt any sort of flow that compressor may have.. the .48 will not flow enough exhaust gasses to reach any sort of effieciency zone[/quote] Simple! The .63 provides more lag (considerably more) than the .48. With the loss of about 15--25hp, but gaining spoolability is no big compromise. I know because I've actually done the comparison and on more than one ocassion, so I speak pure facts on an otherwise stock CA18DET. Your motor is built and we have no real clue as to what was done to most other motors you use as a reference, so neither of them is any good to the general CA public. Someone needed to exploit the motor for what it was worth and have concluded that a stock CA18DET can take as much punishment as you can dish out granted it wasn't beat down before you got it. But you won't get anywhere fast with a turbo that's too big and that's for sure. You wait! I can't wait till you take your engine out for a spin. Maybe then and only then you will realize that our poor CA18s don't need a crap load of turbo and huge back housings to be effective at building power.
If I can take a hybrid T2/T3 and run off some big hp cars, or take a t3/T04B stage 1 and stomp off in the azz of Z06 vettes, C5 vettes, a Ferarri (for Christ's sake), turbocharged integras, boosted civic Sis, with a 60-1 and a JWT ecu smoke a 3rd gen RX-7 that was boosting 12psi to my 12 psi and make him pop his motor, anything is possible. But with the amount of lag I get from the T3/T04E 60-1 stage 3 with .63 backhousing, what makes you think your built motor with hot cams is going to do any better down low (it won't). You will build big power up in the rpm range, but you will suffer below 3500rpm, unless your compression has been raised and your timing is advanced enough in the lower rpm range to keep the engine from falling asleep from boredom below 4000rpm. That is the reason why I mentioned the .48 rear housing. It works and is the recommended back housing for 1800cc engines, at least by the folks that I deal with and most of these people are credible.
A friend of mine has a 12 second SR20DET powered S13 that uses a T3/T04E stage 5 with a .48 rear housing and he doesn't like the fact that his power doesn't come on till 4500rpm. He's not a big drag racer more of a drifter, but now he wants to sell his turbo for something more suitable. I could have a stage 5 wheel too, but why? More lag? The point I'm trying to make is certain turbos seem to tickle certain engine's fancy and do jack for others.
I'll tell you what, why don't you scrap your T3/T04E and go get one of the Ball bearing units and tell us how it goes. No one here is using a ball bearing unit at this time, so you will be a 1st.
Lastly, you strike me as a salesman trying to push a product that you haven't tested yourself. You have given all the technical mumbo-jumbo about what does what, but yet there aren't many CA guys who have even sniffed at the thought of a ballbearing turbo. Half the guys on this forum don't have the bread to even upgrade their fuel sytem to support that much turbo, let alone flinch at the thought of breaking one and having to buy another. At least there have been users of the T3/T4 series in the CA community (Movingviolation, drumma022) whom both have switched to SR20DET engines. As for myself, I am given the hardware (turbochargers) to experiment with on my motors and I have concluded that best bang for the buck is the T3/T4 series blowers for our beloved CA18DET motors.
Dee
-
boost_boy
- Posts: 7051
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:28 am
- Car: B12 sentra w/built CA18DET, B12 sentra w/fully-built CA18DET, S13 coupe w/ CA18DET, S13 hatch w/CA18DET, 2002 maxima SE
- Location: Miami, FL.
- Contact:
Posted By CA19DET: cost: huh?
T3/T04E - $600-$800Wastegate - $250+T3 custom Manifold - $500-$800custom 02 pipe & custom Down pipe - $200-300Flanges & Gaskets - $150Oil lines & Fittings - $100install - ???
bolt on solutions - GT28RS - $800 - (suggested HKS actuator)GT25R - $1024 - (suggested HKS actuator)
and GT series turbos dont just blow up, and most of them as being new, come with a waranty... the only one i have heard of letting go was movingviolations when his manifold broke and piece toasted his turbo, this is not the turbos fault,,, and would have lived for years like any other turbo.
T3/T4 hybrids are technology of the 70's, old things, desil truck turbos, time to step up to the future, and the GT series is the future of turbo technology, the new GT25R, GT30R, GT35R, GT40R and GT45R are taking over the compact world, and time will tell. i know i am right on this otherwise GARRETT and HKS would not be spending all this time and money developing the GT series for comapct cars..
Quote »T3/T4 hybrids are technology of the 70's, old things, desil truck turbos, time to step up to the future, and the GT series is the future of turbo technology, the new GT25R, GT30R, GT35R, GT40R and GT45R are taking over the compact world, and time will tell.[/quote] So, you've put all these prices together, why didn't you just get one? I mean you are using a T3/T4 which is as you call it "70s technology" or "diesel truck turbos", so why don't you step up to the plate and introduce the CA GAng into the world of ball bearing turbos. You seem to have a lot of vast knowledge on the subject of ball bearing units, but we also see that you will be using an old T3/T4 diesel truck turbo. Basically, it's called practice what you preach.
Quote »i know i am right on this otherwise GARRETT and HKS would not be spending all this time and money developing the GT series for comapct cars..[/quote] In your mind, you might be right, but don't you realize that HKS and Garrett must pedal a product to make people buy them. If they don't they then go out of business. Unfortunately, Garrett won't because they could care less about the compact car community when they have so much success in the commercial industry. Either you buy their product for your compact car or you don't; business just goes on.
I love how you post up the compressor maps and everything, but I want to see you lead us into the ball bearing era by putting one on your car. And if not, then the validity of your info is only right in your mind........
Dee
T3/T04E - $600-$800Wastegate - $250+T3 custom Manifold - $500-$800custom 02 pipe & custom Down pipe - $200-300Flanges & Gaskets - $150Oil lines & Fittings - $100install - ???
bolt on solutions - GT28RS - $800 - (suggested HKS actuator)GT25R - $1024 - (suggested HKS actuator)
and GT series turbos dont just blow up, and most of them as being new, come with a waranty... the only one i have heard of letting go was movingviolations when his manifold broke and piece toasted his turbo, this is not the turbos fault,,, and would have lived for years like any other turbo.
T3/T4 hybrids are technology of the 70's, old things, desil truck turbos, time to step up to the future, and the GT series is the future of turbo technology, the new GT25R, GT30R, GT35R, GT40R and GT45R are taking over the compact world, and time will tell. i know i am right on this otherwise GARRETT and HKS would not be spending all this time and money developing the GT series for comapct cars..
Quote »T3/T4 hybrids are technology of the 70's, old things, desil truck turbos, time to step up to the future, and the GT series is the future of turbo technology, the new GT25R, GT30R, GT35R, GT40R and GT45R are taking over the compact world, and time will tell.[/quote] So, you've put all these prices together, why didn't you just get one? I mean you are using a T3/T4 which is as you call it "70s technology" or "diesel truck turbos", so why don't you step up to the plate and introduce the CA GAng into the world of ball bearing turbos. You seem to have a lot of vast knowledge on the subject of ball bearing units, but we also see that you will be using an old T3/T4 diesel truck turbo. Basically, it's called practice what you preach.
Quote »i know i am right on this otherwise GARRETT and HKS would not be spending all this time and money developing the GT series for comapct cars..[/quote] In your mind, you might be right, but don't you realize that HKS and Garrett must pedal a product to make people buy them. If they don't they then go out of business. Unfortunately, Garrett won't because they could care less about the compact car community when they have so much success in the commercial industry. Either you buy their product for your compact car or you don't; business just goes on.
I love how you post up the compressor maps and everything, but I want to see you lead us into the ball bearing era by putting one on your car. And if not, then the validity of your info is only right in your mind........
Dee
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r34 gtr
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ca19, where did you find the gt28rs for $800? i can only find the gt28r for less than a grand..
im not worried about blowing this turbo up, if it does ill buy a new one. i am willing to spend the money for a gt25r but just to be safe i would like to stay around 800-900 dollars in case i meet any unexpected expenses. i think the gt28rs is the way to go for my application.
my plan is to bolt it on and set it to about 15psi, probably 10 daily driver mode. whatever power it makes there will be what the engine will make. my car wont be rediculous because i need it to get around every day, i just want it to be fun and be able to really move when i want it to.
dee, i would prefer the versatility of a t3/t04 but after the cost of a new manifold, the turbo, a wastegate, custom downpipe, wg dump pipe, etc. it would be considerably more than a gt series turbo and i would probably still just set it at 15 and leave it.
thanks for the help guys, i really appreciate it.
- tim
im not worried about blowing this turbo up, if it does ill buy a new one. i am willing to spend the money for a gt25r but just to be safe i would like to stay around 800-900 dollars in case i meet any unexpected expenses. i think the gt28rs is the way to go for my application.
my plan is to bolt it on and set it to about 15psi, probably 10 daily driver mode. whatever power it makes there will be what the engine will make. my car wont be rediculous because i need it to get around every day, i just want it to be fun and be able to really move when i want it to.
dee, i would prefer the versatility of a t3/t04 but after the cost of a new manifold, the turbo, a wastegate, custom downpipe, wg dump pipe, etc. it would be considerably more than a gt series turbo and i would probably still just set it at 15 and leave it.
thanks for the help guys, i really appreciate it.
- tim