Hi, as some of you know, I'm running about 8 psi in my KAT right now with a Garrett/AiResearch T3. The thing I love about it is that it makes all of its boost down low, ie, it's in full boost from about 2250 RPM to 4500 RPM. However, past 4500 RPM, in any gear, the boost starts dropping off to about 5/6 psi...I know the boost is supposed to drop of gradually, but dropping 3 psi past 4500 is a lot, and it makes it useless to rev the engine past 4500. I want power up top as well as down low, and the turbo I'm using right now isn't working at that. It's a T3 off of a 2.0 liter Saab, with a .42 A/R turbine and a .48 A/R compressor.
I was browsing around ebay today and found this turbo, which sounds beautiful for the price, hell, it even has a 90 day warranty!
The turbo he is selling for $290 is a remanufactured T3 super 60, with a 51 trim, .48 turbine, .60 compressor. I'm not familiar with what the "trim" number is, or what "51 trim" is. The FAQ suggested that turbo for an engine 100-150 CID, which is what the KA falls into.
The thing is, I never could really read a compressor map, nor did I fully understand the A/R or trim numbers, so I'm asking for some "professional" help, especially from those running simialarly sized turbos. Would this turbocharger restore my boost at high RPMS as opposed to my old T3? I was thinking that the exhaust A/R, .48, is still rather low, so it would be quick spooling, and the .60 compressor size is much higher than .48, so it'd be able to boost at higher RPMs/CFMS, although i know it's not as easy as how I just put it. Basically I'm asking...how would this shift my powerband (if at 8 psi it was around 2000-4500 RPM) with this different turbo? I'd rather have a full 8 psi from 3000-5500 RPM than from 2000-4500 RPM, although I'm not a big fan of lag.
Please help me out before I make a $300 purchase. (BTW, the only reason I'd consider replacing it is because the one on ebay is a T3 as well, so it'd bolt right up...)
Thanks a lot in advance!Marc
Turbo selection question...My small T3 isn't cutting it. PLEASE HELP!
reading through my SCC, it says that the A/Rs should be within 15% IIRC, just a bit of info...
Also, IIRC, the Garret/AiReaserch T3 is a really small one, with A/Rs in the low 40s, isn't that equivelant to running a T25 just with larger housings? (probably wrong, but it sounds good to me
)
The Z31 T3, which people are getting pretty good results from, has A/Rs in the low 60s, as does the T3/T4 hybrid IIRC, the compressor may be smaller, I really can't remember, someone may be able to reinforce my comment, or even discredit it,
Also, IIRC, the Garret/AiReaserch T3 is a really small one, with A/Rs in the low 40s, isn't that equivelant to running a T25 just with larger housings? (probably wrong, but it sounds good to me
)The Z31 T3, which people are getting pretty good results from, has A/Rs in the low 60s, as does the T3/T4 hybrid IIRC, the compressor may be smaller, I really can't remember, someone may be able to reinforce my comment, or even discredit it,
Yes, I'm aware that the T3 i'm running right now has really low numbers...which is why I want to get a T3 with higher numbers...there's nothing wrong with the T3, the A/R's are just too low for a 2.4 liter (it was meant for a 2.0 liter).
How would you calculate the 15% between the A/R's? ie, between .48 and .60, is how much of a difference?
I don't think I need anything bigger than the one on ebay, I don't want to lose low-end torque/quick spooling time.
What does IIRC mean? (n00b question)
How would you calculate the 15% between the A/R's? ie, between .48 and .60, is how much of a difference?
I don't think I need anything bigger than the one on ebay, I don't want to lose low-end torque/quick spooling time.
What does IIRC mean? (n00b question)
-
TrunkMonkey
- Posts: 3190
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
- Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator
a .48 turbine sucks on the KA. it's going to kill top end performance no matter what you do.
in most cases, a .63 turbine will start boosting around 3k rpms which is the lowest rpm where you should be launching anyway. this will give you a decent spoolup, and allow the KA to breath on the top end.
-demetrius
in most cases, a .63 turbine will start boosting around 3k rpms which is the lowest rpm where you should be launching anyway. this will give you a decent spoolup, and allow the KA to breath on the top end.
-demetrius
So what does the "51 trim" mean? Demcj, do you think the one on ebay is a good size? The .42 I have starts boosting around 2k RPM.... .48 will be much better than .42, again...I don't want FULL BOOST at redline...but I'd love to have full boost up to 5500 RPM, I never really shift above there anyhow, I'm not into drag racing or anything...
Marc
Marc
-
TrunkMonkey
- Posts: 3190
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
- Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator
-
TrunkMonkey
- Posts: 3190
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
- Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator
a T3 super 60 should have a 60 trim.MarkEmark wrote:The turbo he is selling for $290 is a remanufactured T3 super 60, with a 51 trim, .48 turbine, .60 compressor. I'm not familiar with what the "trim" number is, or what "51 trim" is. The FAQ suggested that turbo for an engine 100-150 CID, which is what the KA falls into.
do you have a link?
-demetrius
tinted wrote:its that a question?
Sort of...I'd like some COHERENT input on everything I posted...:rolleyes
Here's the link...some bastard bid on it before me, but I think he has another unit available...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...91923
It's the same thing that the sticky on the top of this board suggests...
-
TrunkMonkey
- Posts: 3190
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
- Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator
i'm no expert on this, so maybe i'm missing something. but they rebuilt a t3 super 60 with a 51 trim compressor? unless i'm missing something, that's no longer a super 60. and by looking at a 50 trim compressor map, it's still not good enough for what you want.
maybe someone else will chime in and correct me if i'm wrong. me personally, i'd try to find t3 with a 60 trim.
-demetrius
maybe someone else will chime in and correct me if i'm wrong. me personally, i'd try to find t3 with a 60 trim.
-demetrius
-
TrunkMonkey
- Posts: 3190
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
- Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator
Okay...well basically I wanted to know how much this turbo would shift my powerband if it used to be 2k-4.5k with a .42/.48 T3... and how high in the RPM range it would still be at full boost, and I still don't have a definitive answer. The FAQ recommends this exact turbo, except the one they recommend has a .63 compressor. I guess I'll just have to buy it and find out.Exar-Kun, c-kwik, and WDRacing especially, what are your thoughts?
Hey man, here's a compressor map, do you know how to use one? If you dont know how to read one Ill help you out..
here is an Ebay for for a plain old super- 60
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=6755
edit: sorry I did not read your first post again. I see. I'll figure it out later this night and post in the morning (if no one has yet)
here is an Ebay for for a plain old super- 60
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=6755
edit: sorry I did not read your first post again. I see. I'll figure it out later this night and post in the morning (if no one has yet)
Yeah, I'll admit, I really have no idea how to read one of those maps..the one on ebay that you showed me had the "51" trim wheel as well...it's the same one as the link I posted except the one I posted didn't have a 2- bolt pattern for the intake...
$290 is a damn good deal no matter how I cut it, I'm definitely going to get it just to try it out, anything will be better than what I'm using now.
I told him the dimensions of my T3 and asked him if the super 60 had the same dimensions (ie, same OD of the inlet, compressor, oulet, etc) and he said it did..can anyone confirm that?
Thanks
$290 is a damn good deal no matter how I cut it, I'm definitely going to get it just to try it out, anything will be better than what I'm using now.
I told him the dimensions of my T3 and asked him if the super 60 had the same dimensions (ie, same OD of the inlet, compressor, oulet, etc) and he said it did..can anyone confirm that?
Thanks
-
aleph1
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:08 pm
- Car: 1990 240SX hatch MODS: class.
- Location: Fort Collins CO
I got this excel spreadsheet a while ago, in which you enter in the cc of the engine, throttle position, boost and what rpm you want that boost to come in and it calculates the two variables (I believe PR and lbs/min) for you to plot on the map. Then you see which "island" of efficiency it falls into, the higher the better....I cant host the spreadsheet...sorry
UPDATE
Well, I just got done installing the T3 super 60B...what a beauty...according to the seller it was remanufactured...but the thing looks...and performs...like it's brand new, not a stitch of carbon even in the exhaust housing...blades were perfect, NO shaft play...$290...damn good deal IMO.
My new T3 actually has the same turbine A/R as my old T3 (In fact, I swapped the exhaust housing from the old one and put it on the new one because it had a slightly smaller outlet/was shorter all together, and I didn't feel like making up a new DP)....
So, while the new T3 does spool not as quickly (the other one had power always on tap, no lag whatsoever), it still spools pretty damn quickly, is at full boost at 3000, and really flings you back in your seat...i was at about 2500 in second on a straightaway and just mashed the throttle, by 3500 the wheels were spinning and it chirped third at only 5k RPM...DAMN! And while the tires I was using certainly weren't high-performance sticky compounds, they were still almost brand new thick, meaty all-season pirelli's (205's)....needless to say, I'm sure the 235 Khumos on my new wheelset should do a reasonably good job keeping her hooked
Anyway, in conclusion, I'd highly recommend the T3 super 60 B for a KA...it built fool boost all the way to 6000 RPM
My new T3 actually has the same turbine A/R as my old T3 (In fact, I swapped the exhaust housing from the old one and put it on the new one because it had a slightly smaller outlet/was shorter all together, and I didn't feel like making up a new DP)....
So, while the new T3 does spool not as quickly (the other one had power always on tap, no lag whatsoever), it still spools pretty damn quickly, is at full boost at 3000, and really flings you back in your seat...i was at about 2500 in second on a straightaway and just mashed the throttle, by 3500 the wheels were spinning and it chirped third at only 5k RPM...DAMN! And while the tires I was using certainly weren't high-performance sticky compounds, they were still almost brand new thick, meaty all-season pirelli's (205's)....needless to say, I'm sure the 235 Khumos on my new wheelset should do a reasonably good job keeping her hooked
Anyway, in conclusion, I'd highly recommend the T3 super 60 B for a KA...it built fool boost all the way to 6000 RPM
do you want to sell your old turbo? I was about to buy one on eBay, the exact same one from all I can tell. I dont really mind the whole drop off at 4500 rpm deal, just as long as it doesn't HURT the performance (i.e. perform worse than if no turbo was on there at all). Did you run any E.T.s with it on there?
I am selling my old turbo/....I'm looking to get $200 for it (I know I can get that much for it...)...it has brand new exhaust housing, never used, everythings in great condition, very little shaft play fore or aft, spins freely, holds oil and up to 14 psi no problem...the wastegate diaphragm/actuator are also brand new...and I'll include a downpipe flange too...
let me know[email protected]
No, i have no ideas about ETs....I know that it did 6.5 to 60 on the stock clutch at 7 psi with this turbo...and that was only the second time i've EVER tried to launch the car hard...with a better driver it'd be much quicker.
let me know[email protected]
No, i have no ideas about ETs....I know that it did 6.5 to 60 on the stock clutch at 7 psi with this turbo...and that was only the second time i've EVER tried to launch the car hard...with a better driver it'd be much quicker.