Top Mount Setups

[teddy]

Well my s15 turbo went out on me so I've decided to switch over to topmount for my own various reasons. I have a few questions though, and was hoping this could be an informative thread on top mount CA stuff in the process.

I'm gonna be running a t3/t04e hybrid and using the ever elusive SSautocrack mani. Have any of you ss users had problems with the turbo hitting the master cylinder or the hood?

I'm not sure what trim I want to use either. The turbo is going to be a stage 3 wheel, 270 bearings, .60 ar compressor housing/.63 turbine housing. I'm looking to hit 400whp as efficiently as possible, meaning I dont want to be maxed out. I'm looking at the 50, 54, and 57 compressor trims. What trim is going to get me there on the CA without having much lag(some is acceptable). Or should I be considering some different specs as far as the wheel and turbine sizes go?

Also for all you top mount CA guys, what setups have worked for you and what kind of numbers are you putting down.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

[Pumaking]

ouch 400whp with several people on here using t3/t04e setu[s are getting like 320whp at like 22psi, as for lag your gonna have it no matter what especially with that trim I think you'd be hitting full post around the 4000rpm's. If your looking for big hp and fast spool up you need to look into a different turbo which is in the $1000-$1400 range.

[[email protected]]

Not sure if this will be of much help, but I'm running a GT30 turbo with a GCG turbos (www.gcg.com.au) top mount manifold on my CA.

I was running around 26psi boost and getting 419bhp measured at the hubs on a dynopack dyno. Full boost is reached around 4500rpm. I'm now running 30psi, not sure what the peak power is at the moment, but its quicker

[themadscientist]

SSAC manifold at work zerothread?id=131371

[c-rad]

SSAC manifold at work zerothread?id=131371

Seems like an isolated incident though, and I question it a little.

[float_6969]

He's the only guy on here that's had a problem with it. I've been running mine for about while w/o a problem. Mine has been heat cycled enough times that if it was gonna crap out on me, I think it would have done it by now. There was one other member who did use the top mount specifically and he had problems with it clearing the Master Cylnder IIRC.

[CA19DET]

well i can chime in here from another perspective, i got a SSAC bottom Mount style copy made and i simply flipped it over and made it a top mount, now i am sure you can do this with their new design. there was clearence for it... here are some photos of my old top mount set up.













this is my new T3/T04E low mount with a modified TRUST manifold.





i like how that DC sports S13 SR turbo manifold looks, and i am sure by DC Sports quality control the quality would eb awsome, i would love to get one and put the CA flanges on it, but ti would loose its quality with all that cutting and welding.

[teddy]

well i used to have a bottom mount ss mani and I had no problems with it at all. Hitting full boost at 4grand is no problem for me. Full boost at 5 is too much though. 400whp is my long term goal I'm shooting for, I know I'm not going to get it immediately. But I have been poking around on honda-tech lately due to their massive amount of info on turbos and I've seen quite a few Gs-r's running a hybrid t3 putting out around the 350's. What would be a more reasonable turbo then without going to a ball bearing setup. I refuse to use it due to my last experience. I want to be able to rebuild if something happens. Should I upgrade to a t3/60-1, or maybe a Precision turbo of some kind, say the sc34.

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

[CA19DET]

for 400hp i would tell you the same turbo i got:

50 Trim T3/T04E w/ .63 A/R stage 3 Turbine; this turbo will allow you the flow to get to 400hp, it will get full boost by 4500rpm, you'll need to run 24psi or more to get into the 400's and some serious engine management upgrades.

you can use the .48 A/R Turbine in stage 3 or stage 1 even and get better spool/response (more arouond ~4000rpm or maybe less) and loose the high hp capability topping out at about 350 at ~20psi or so... to run more would be out of the efficency range of the turbine and ou may just be whipping the exhaust air into unusable turbulance..

at 20psi the 1.8 CA is right in the best island of the efficency map for the TO4E complressor map (76% or 72% if i remember), so its a good match at that boost level and slightly above, and combined with the right sized T3 housing A/R and stage wheel, you can either get really big number and/or really good response and drivability, the obvious choice for a street car is a little of both.

the .86 A/R would allow you to run more boost, and get allot more top end HP out of the turbo, but i dont think it will spool till 5000rpm or later depending on wheel trim. great for a drag car with loads of nitrous and head/valve work to get a good long power/rev range to work with (think 5-9krpm powerband)

the T3/60-1 is a bigger turbo (compresor) than the 50 Trim and that 60-1 compressor is huge,. and in most honda B18's it doesn't get going till 5000rpm+ but thats cool for them, cause their Vtec and engine seem to like that late spool, and the cam technology seems to help them spoool better than other engines,a nd CR has allot to do with it also..

Precision Turbo, Garrett, Turbonetics, ATP: any of those should eb able to answer you much better than i can, and they would reccomend you a turbo based on what "you" tell them you want... they all amke great tuebo and are priced around the same. good luck..

[float_6969]

well i used to have a bottom mount ss mani and I had no problems with it at all. Hitting full boost at 4grand is no problem for me. Full boost at 5 is too much though. 400whp is my long term goal I'm shooting for, I know I'm not going to get it immediately. But I have been poking around on honda-tech lately due to their massive amount of info on turbos and I've seen quite a few Gs-r's running a hybrid t3 putting out around the 350's. What would be a more reasonable turbo then without going to a ball bearing setup. I refuse to use it due to my last experience. I want to be able to rebuild if something happens. Should I upgrade to a t3/60-1, or maybe a Precision turbo of some kind, say the sc34.

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

Did you purchase a manufactured mani, or did you have one made locally?

[teddy]

I purchased the SSauto t28 mani from their site. No fitment problems and I actually used an sr turbo outlet and sr downpipe and had no problems with that either. the downpipe was about 3" away from the frame rail.

[teddy]

and thank you ca19det...thats exactly what I wanted to hear. I've got a custom t3/t04e with 50 trim lined up to buy from one of the engineers at Garrett.

[float_6969]

Man, I stil wish that you would have been able to finish the CA-Z32 project.

[CA19DET]

i heard turbonetics has a new line up of ceramic t3/t4 hybrids i would look into as well, i have been told about them by my engine builder who just got turbonetics dealership locally and he wants to try out a new turbo on my engine. the lighter ceramic wheel is supposed to help spool allot.. and flows heaps.

[fallen180sx]

hey ca19.. when you flipped the mani over.. howd you hook up your downpipe?

[NeedCAforS13]

he didn't exactly flip over the manifold... they put a t3 flange on a manifold that was designed like an ssauto manifold, but upside down. I think he brought the pictures of an ssauto manifold to a shop for them to look at.

Sean

[NeedCAforS13]

Man, I stil wish that you would have been able to finish the CA-Z32 project.

wrong person ryan... you're thinking of KaZ!

[CA19DET]

hey ca19.. when you flipped the mani over.. howd you hook up your downpipe?

he didn't exactly flip over the manifold... they put a t3 flange on a manifold that was designed like an ssauto manifold, but upside down. I think he brought the pictures of an ssauto manifold to a shop for them to look at.

Sean

exactly, i didnt jsut flip it over, it wasnt that easy, teh bolts wouldnt line up, i had to cut it off the runners off teh flange and flip it over, and it was a copy i had made, but hold them together and the bends were pretty much the same, and the runners were ~11" IIRC.. i did use a t3 flange,

honestly if my trust manifold gives me any more beans, and i cant find a HKS cast top mount T3 manifold, i am going to either switch to GT turbos using a SSAC or ported stock manifold, and ii have even been thinking of modifyling teh stock one to fit the t3/t4 and put an external gate on it too.. very tempted to do this..

[teddy]

yeah, im externally gating mine, which brings up another point. Is there any reason not to vent an external gate to the atmosphere?

[NeedCAforS13]

loud as crap, but it won't cause any running issues...

Sean

[NeedCAforS13]

honestly if my trust manifold gives me any more beans

what's wrong with it? that seemed like such a nice set up!

[float_6969]

I was just gonna ask that too. What's wrong with the trust mani?

[Nunook]

I purchased the SSauto t28 mani from their site. No fitment problems and I actually used an sr turbo outlet and sr downpipe and had no problems with that either. the downpipe was about 3" away from the frame rail.

Did it help with the spool up, or widen the powerband??? About how much did it help (rough estimate)? and did it move the turbo placement alot?

I have a sr t25g (.80a/r) and was thinking about getting this manifold, but i wanted to know if it helps reduce lag.

P.S. sorry for hoping in on a different note.

[teddy]

its alright. If you search through the CA archives, you'll find quite a bit on the SS manifolds. Basically what you'll read is that its a gamble to buy one. Some are nice, others are worthless. The manifold moved my turbo slightly closer to the block, which is why I think it helped my downpipe fit better. As far as widening the power band, I couldnt even tell you. I had the car running for maybe 2 miles when the turbo took a crap.