Tips on Winter Driving

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Yeah that does sound awful... I remember driving my 240 in the snow. It pretty much constantly understeered. I had to basically steer with the throttle. Lift off oversteer was pretty common too.. even when lifting smoothly (mostly in downhill sections).


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Ajax
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That depends on the condition of the slide. Numerous times, I've purposely gone too fast in an empty parking lot, understeering and spinning tires; then let off the gas or put the clutch in- immediately the car gains traction, begins turning, and control is fine. In a FWD, this is the situation they are referring to. Its not about sudden changes in tire speed, its about letting the tires go the speed they would naturally prefer to go, thereby increasing traction and control.

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Ajax wrote:That depends on the condition of the slide
And your tires. :yesnod

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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote: so run the skinniest tire recommended for your wheels.

This is a double edged sword.

Yes, skinny tires are more effective, look at WRC racing snow tires, but another very important factor is pliability. By stretching a skinny tire onto a wide wheel, you effectively stiffen the side wall of the tire. Snow tires have a soft side wall for a reason. The softness allows the tire to move around on the wheel, thereby maintaining traction when small changes in wheel speed or direction threaten to cause a loss of it.

Great for drifting, not for snow driving.

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185 65 15

;)

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PapaSmurf2k3
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Pretty much why I said "recommended'. Obviously stretching your tires isn't recommended by any tire professional, at any tire shop. I'm talking like the difference between a 205 and a 195 here...

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Ajax
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FlatBlackIan wrote:
PapaSmurf2k3 wrote: so run the skinniest tire recommended for your wheels.
This is a double edged sword.
Also remember that eventually most cities will plow the roads (IDK about Canada). Skinnier tires can certainly be advantageous in the snow, but keep it reasonable since most of the winter will still be driven on not-so-snowy roads.

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FlatBlackIan wrote:
PapaSmurf2k3 wrote: so run the skinniest tire recommended for your wheels.

This is a double edged sword.

Yes, skinny tires are more effective, look at WRC racing snow tires, but another very important factor is pliability. By stretching a skinny tire onto a wide wheel, you effectively stiffen the side wall of the tire. Snow tires have a soft side wall for a reason. The softness allows the tire to move around on the wheel, thereby maintaining traction when small changes in wheel speed or direction threaten to cause a loss of it.

Great for drifting, not for snow driving.
"Skinny" won't necessarily mean "stretched" unless you get really ridiculous... people need to keep in mind that as they go narrower, they need to increase the aspect ratio in order to maintain the same (or larger) overall diameter... pretty much the opposite of what we all do on our cars for looks and performance.

Getting up into a 75 or 80-series tire isn't unrealistic, and retains sidewall height (and therefore, flexibility).

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I thought of some other things for the article:
In my family, whenever we take long trips, we call once we get where we're going. While overkill on a trip to the market, its nice to let the people you just left know you got home safely through a blizzard.
Black Ice- usually occuring on on/off-ramps and at stops. Black ice, I've found, is a self-perpetuating thing, especially at one-way stops. You sit and wait ata stop sign while your engine melts the snow underneath you; then you leave and it refreezes. So brake early- don't try to stop when you get to the sign- be prepared by slowing early. It also makes it difficult to pull away- make sure you've got room to merge with traffic.
Find the apexes! your racetrack skills translate- because you want to have the smallest change in direction that you can (maintain speed on track, maintain overall traction in snow/ice). Obviously lanes and snow buildup on the curbs can limit your ability to carve the corners, but if you keep in mind the apex, etc; you'll be surprised how much traction your car can actually get in the snow.

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PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:Pretty much why I said "recommended'. Obviously stretching your tires isn't recommended by any tire professional, at any tire shop. I'm talking like the difference between a 205 and a 195 here...

I know you understand James. I was more explaining for other peoples benifit. :gapteeth:
AZhitman wrote:
"Skinny" won't necessarily mean "stretched" unless you get really ridiculous... people need to keep in mind that as they go narrower, they need to increase the aspect ratio in order to maintain the same (or larger) overall diameter... pretty much the opposite of what we all do on our cars for looks and performance.

Getting up into a 75 or 80-series tire isn't unrealistic, and retains sidewall height (and therefore, flexibility).
True story.

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:bigthumb:

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AZhitman wrote:"Skinny" won't necessarily mean "stretched" unless you get really ridiculous... people need to keep in mind that as they go narrower, they need to increase the aspect ratio in order to maintain the same (or larger) overall diameter... pretty much the opposite of what we all do on our cars for looks and performance.
Another benefit to taller sidewall is greater tread depth. Generally modern low-pro tires have pretty limited tread depth compared to ~65-ratio tires of old. Part of what makes a snow tire superior for snow driving is its ability to evacuate snow from tread gaps--same goes for mud tires. The deeper a tire's tread, the better its ability to evacuate debris will be and, by extension, the better the traction will be.

With the Q, I'd go from 245- or 255-45-17 in the summer to 215-65-15 in winter. Tread depth was significantly greater. Even looking at Blizzaks on the sale rack at a tire shop, you can clearly see the difference in tread depth between 65-ratio 15'' tires an 45 ratio 18 inch tires.

Also, another beneficial side effect of deeper tread in snow is increased heat buildup during tire flex, which can also help evacuation from tread grooves.

And, going back to your initial point, if you have TCS or stability control or anything like that, not adjusting your aspect ratio for tread width can actually cause problems. Enough difference from stock (and especially difference front vs rear) will cause most TCS systems to default and shut off because it throws off rotational calculations.

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Bumping this to the top for all the n00bs. Remember people, there's no shame in admitting you don't know how to drive in the snow. Getting out there and trying to with no guidance, well, that's a horrible idea. :couch

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nissangirl74 wrote: Getting out there and trying to with no guidance, well, that's a horrible idea. :couch
Funny, I was talking to Holli the other night and we agreed how screwing around in empty parking lots after fresh snowfall when we were kids was training for adulthood. I'd actually be interested to know the correlation between experience gained "back then" and how the experience and skills translated to accident free driving in inclement conditions as adults.

About 8 or 9 years ago when we were still living in Chicago (and I was daily driving the 240SX) I hit a patch of black ice out (Palatine Road near Lake Arlington for you locals). Did a full 360 and kept on going with no drama, no panic and no problems (due in part to light traffic). Without all that misspent youth in parking lots and industrial park areas I don't think things would have turned out quite the same.

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My tip for this year:
Stay out of Idaho. People here can't drive on DRY roads, let alone snowy ones. And parking? Good Hell. They can't make proper use of those lines on the ground when they can see them. If there's snow obscuring them, it's like some nightmarish horizontal version of Tetris. "But...But...cars don't come shaped like Ls and Ts" you say. That doesn't stop these people from trying.

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bigbadberry3
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If you can't drive or aren't sure if you're able to, don't.

Not safe for you or others.


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