You're not dad. You're simply a pretender spouting generalities you learned from him

Gee, I have an idea. How about you answer the API 350 question, and show us how you worked the equation assuming Ft for the chains exceeds that of the valves and reciprocating parts. If you want people here to think you actually know anything, that would be a start.

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:04 am

spewing more personal attacks that further highlight the weakness of your position.

One more thing. I don't use pejoratives and at no time have I called you any names. I have called you an imposter trading on your father's reputation to represent that you have knowledge you don't have. That's manifestly true, and by now everyone here can see it. The truth may hurt, but it isn't a personal attack.

Your lack of respect for engineering expertise you clearly will never have is offensive. I don't talk in generalities, I talk in specifics. My engineer father taught me well and he taught me to be able to recognize someone like you who doesn't have his engineering expertise. Because of this, my cars are well maintained and I know when I'm being sold a "bill of goods' like you're doing right now. Your hostility towards facts you don't like is offensive. FYI, the mechanics will never know more than the engineers. You seem to be unable to read and end this thread. Your bad information offers no help to the OP.

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:19 am

You seem to be unable to read and end this thread. Your bad information offers no help to the OP.

There are three ways this thread will end:
1) you quit replying
2) You admit you're a poser with no detailed engineering knowledge
3) You bring your dad into his conversation, who does have detailed engineering knowledge and I will be happy to debate as an engineer
Absent one of those, I'm content for this thread to continue indefinitely. People should know when they're getting fraudulent information from an imposter, which you, sir, plainly are.

So sorry but you've admitted that you're an electrical engineer and not an automotive engineer. How many times do I have to tell you that you'll never know more than the automotive engineers because you're not an automotive engineer? You're the one who is giving out bad information because of your lack of automotive engineering experience. When are you going to get the message?

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:04 am

So sorry but you've admitted that you're an electrical engineer and not an automotive engineer. How many times do I have to tell you that you'll never know more than the automotive engineers because you're not an automotive engineer? You're the one who is giving out bad information because of your lack of automotive engineering experience. When are you going to get the message?

When will you get the message that you aren't an engineer at all, or even a repair tech? Manifestly, what you are at this point is a fraud trying to cover your butt with your dad's blanket.

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:04 am

You're the one who is giving out bad information because of your lack of automotive engineering experience.

It's worth noting that Nissan (with all their engineers, whose collective experience dwarfs your father's and mine) doesn't recommend prophylactically changing chains even on VQ engines, which do frequently exhibit wear issues. Neither does any Nissan tech or field engineer I know (and I know plenty). You change them when they're worn or broken, and on late model Nissan engines they all give plenty of warning. Your advice is not only bad, it's completely ignorant of the real world.

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:04 am

When are you going to get the message?

There are three ways this thread will end:
1) you quit replying
2) You admit you're a poser with no detailed engineering knowledge
3) You bring your dad into his conversation, who does have detailed engineering knowledge and I will be happy to debate as an engineer
Absent one of those, I'm content for this thread to continue indefinitely. You, sir, are a fraud.

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:27 pm

I'll be happy to debate with you further when you have more than 4 decades of engineering work experience like my father had. As of now, you don't have that so let's just end this thread now. The OP asked a good question to begin with.

Unless your parent is willing to drop in and discuss this topic with the guy who's been driving this train for 20 years and has been maintaining a fleet of Nissans for far longer than that, I'm going to end this now.

Absent symptoms, there is no reason to incur the unnecessary expense of replacing a timing chain on an otherwise properly functioning and well maintained modern engine. Period.

Let this be the end of the discussion. The blatant misrepresentation of my moderator's actions does NOT sit well with me. This isn't Facebook, we don't tolerate hearsay or conjecture, and unless you have a double-digit list of engine rebuilds under your belt, you're ill-equipped to debate the topic further, at least with me.

Thanks, and good night.

I find the reaction disappointing. It's clear that bullying behavior and a lack of respect for engineering expertise is the norm here. For the record, my engineer father had more than 40 years of aviation and engineering work experience. Mercedes-Benz, the inventor of the automobile recommends changing timing chains at 100,000 miles. Mercedes-Benz was building cars way before Nissan showed up. The poster who claims to be an expert has no where near the level of engineering work experience that my engineer father had. It's unfortunate that people with no such engineering expertise are allowed to get away with giving bad advise to people who write in asking for help. That defeats the purpose of the forum and that's a shame.

I thought I was abundantly clear.

My dad says your dad is wrong. He was a mechanical and nuclear engineer for 47 years.

There, is that better?

Can't believe I'm having this discussion with someone who's never removed a timing cover and drives a car with a warranty and a CVT.

I suppose now you're an expert on running a forum?

Sorry you didn't get your way. You've not been bullied, but if you'd like to be, I can certainly oblige.

Best regards.

I find the lack of respect for solid engineering expertise to be highly offensive. That's exactly what you're doing despite the fact that you have no such engineering expertise. I will change my timing chain by the time my Versa gets to 156,000 miles. The internet is filled with videos of broken timing chains that resulted in destroyed engines. I suggest you Google them. Your personal attacks further show the weakness of your position. It's long overdue for this thread to be closed. When will you get the message to close this thread? Allowing and participating in such blatant bullying is no way to run a forum.

I'll close the thread when I'm good and ready. Tell your father he might be a brilliant engineer, but he raised a petulant little twit.

When will YOU get the message that you don't tell someone else how to run their business?

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 02, 2023 9:10 am

Mercedes-Benz, the inventor of the automobile recommends changing timing chains at 100,000 miles. Mercedes-Benz was building cars way before Nissan showed up.

You could try just getting your facts right. MB only recommends timing chain replacement on the early M271 engines, due to a crap timing chain design which eats up cam sprockets. The vast majority of MB's have no such recommendations. It took me zero rocket science and 5 minutes of googling to find this, read it and learn something:
https://www.ammstar.com.au/mercedes-spe ... n-failure/

AZ is right, you're nothing but a petulant child.

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:56 am

I find the lack of respect for solid engineering expertise

Only one of us has owned 121 vehicles in his lifetime, and has countless restorations and repairs under their belt. The otyher one is a Master Tech, which isn't handed out like a participation trophy. But you wouldn't know that, because you have no idea what it takes to earn that. Here's a hint: Google it.

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:56 am

...to be highly offensive.

Karen called. She said that's her line. Shall I bring in a cavalcade of automotive engineers to play "my Daddy says" ?

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:56 am

I will change my timing chain by the time my Versa gets to 156,000 miles....I'm not sure what the mileage recommendation is for changing the timing chain.

Good. You should do that. You'll easily double its value.

Per Nissan, way back in 2011: "The 2007-2011 Versa comes with a 1.6L (HR16DE) or 1.8L (MR18DE) engine. Both are double-overhead cam (DOHC) motors with a timing chain. Unlike a timing belt, a timing chain doesn't need to be replaced at regular intervals."

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:56 am

The internet is filled with videos of broken timing chains that resulted in destroyed engines.

The Internet is also filled with videos of smoking hot chicks who strip naked and service their plumber. Let me know if that ever happens to you.

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:56 am

Your personal attacks...

Such as, telling two seasoned, experienced guys (both twice your age) that your invisible daddy's expertise exceeds our collective knowledge? Yeah, that's not personal at all. Classroom accolades are no substitute for actually dismantling and rebuilding broken stuff.

2019Versafan wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:56 am

Allowing and participating in such blatant bullying is no way to run a forum.

...says the guy who simply cannot accept being told no?

BTW, we've been here since 2002. I don't take kindly to being told how to run this ship, considering you had no issue with it until you didn't get your way. However, I suspect you were a mere glimmer in Daddy's eye back then, or at least smearing poo on the walls.

A little respect and a healthy dose of skepticism will take you a looong way. Remember, your parents probably told you all about the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, Jesus and the Easter Bunny too.

With that said, tell Pops he owes us a beer for doing what he may have been too busy to do. Or, he's welcome to pop in and thank us in person.

Guaranteed that link won't get read, VStar.

So that this thread is returned to usefulness and functionality, here's something for all to ponder.

I won't get too technical, out of respect for those who don't get their pretty hands dirty or use a third pedal:

Timing chain guides require inspection, especially, as VStar mentioned, on the 90's Nissan / Infiniti engines that inexplicably used a liner that seems to have been made of porcelain sourced from Wish. When they inevitably fractured, they'd create internal mayhem, often causing the PERFECTLY FINE timing chain to skip one or more teeth and rendering the engine toast... [see also: 90-96 Q45 VH45DE premature failure]. Historically, I've done this with a borescope, because a TC replacement is often an unnecessary expense. The guides, however, should be inspected and replaced if wear is present (typically, grooves or stress marks from a failing tensioner).

A chain can stretch a bit (almost immeasurable, but let's pretend it's visibly different). That's what a tensioner is for. Old ones were spring-actuated, modern ones are hydraulic (and even electromechanical, I believe). So, even if a chain were to "grow" by a few mm (which is patently impossible), the tensioner is designed to take up that slack, much like the derailleur assembly on a multi-speed bicycle rear sprocket.

One need not possess some mystical framed piece of paper to understand the inner workings of a modern car.

V, what's the highest-mile engine you've seen (not with a lame belt) with its original chain? Mine was a 98 Corolla with 610k miles, front cover had never been removed.

I don't think I ever saw one go that far, but we do have an '09 Pathy that got the bad chains replaced around 70K and now it's at almost 500K (I think 486K the last time he was in, but don't hold me to it) without being touched again. That's pretty remarkable for a VQ. The change in guide material that Nissan made around the same time as the chain fix seems to make a huge difference. We also regularly see a whole bunch of Altimas, Sentras, and Versas between 250~400K on original chains. With the new materials and general improvements in oil technology, I expect we'll see cars like gen5 Alties going further than that if the CVT's are well cared for and the electrical systems hold up. The latter is truly my big question. With silicon everyplace in the car, the copper wire gauges seem to shrink with every new model. I think harness fatigue and unavailability of silicon parts will be the major junkyard drivers of the future, and I pity the guys who will have to diagnose the resulting gremlins fifteen and twenty years from now. I'll be retired and glad of it!

Spoken by people who aren't engineers and who don't even own Versas. I have every right to speak out about the lack of respect for engineering expertise that I'm witnessing as well as the offensive bullying I'm experiencing. I was raised to value and respect expertise and to always stand up against bullying. You need to get over yourself if you think you know it all about running a forum. You clearly don't. I will always choose my engineer father's recommendations along with Mercedes-Benz recommendations. They continue to keep my cars well taken care of. You need to get off of your ego trip. You're not providing a forum that provides factual information or a forum that doesn't tolerate bullying. Every time I've posted, I've always focused on helping the OP with suggestions for the issue they're asking for help with. It's clear that others don't have helping OPs with their issues as a priority.

AZhitman wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:55 pm

Guaranteed that link won't get read, VStar.

Yep, you're right. He didn't.

Snowflake n. slang: Term for a person implying that they have an inflated sense of uniqueness, an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are overly-emotional, easily offended, and unable to deal with opposing opinions.

Source: Wikipedia

Hmm, I know some feet those shoes will fit. No bullying needed.

There you go again with your same disrespect for engineering expertise you don't have and for your pathetic, bullying personal attacks. You can't stand it if someone dares to disagree with you. Your behavior is shameful and unacceptable. Your behavior continues to show the weakness of your position. You need to get a life.

My "position" is "master technician and engineer", yours is "obvious snowflake". I had no idea sitting in daddy's lap and doing your own oil changes qualified anyone as an expert. By those standards I must be expert in dozens of subjects I had no idea I knew about. Go cover your Versa with "MB Wannabe" stickers and play in the snow.

PS - Yes, the above might constitute bullying. If so, it's because you've asked for it and richly deserve it. Cry to daddy, because no one here with half a brain is listening to you.

There you go again recycling your pathetic personal attacks because you have nothing else to post. Excuse me but your lack of respect for engineering expertise you'll never have and your bullying behavior towards me for daring to disagree with you continues to show the weakness of your position. There was very little traffic on this section of the forum before your bad behavior in this thread and now there'll be even less because no one will want to ask for help with an issue and no one will want to post a response that you pathetic posters will disagree with. Again, when your timing chain breaks because you refused to change it and your engine is destroyed for not changing the timing chain, I won't waste my time saying I told you so.