I found more info on that high mileage M56.

The high pressure fuel pump was replaced one time, at 273K miles. A thousand miles later, the timing cover had to be replaced due to the HPFP lifter.
It seems logical to me that paying attention to your car and raising/addressing issues when they come up will keep the car running healthy without incurring unnecessary expenses.

For a replacement vehicle.....If you want V8 power in a 4 door sedan with relative same comfort level, technology and reliability...the list becomes pretty short (IMHO).

BMW 5 series
Mercedes (not sure on which series)
Lexus
Audi A6/A8
Maserati Quattroporte GTs

Sure there's a few more but those are the main ones. But, I'd say most of those listed above don't meet the "reliability" requirement, or certainly reasonable costs of ownership.

However, for my money I'd look for a 2014-2017 Chevy SS. If you don't know about them (most people don't)...research them. They're imported from Australia and are a rebadged Holden Commodore VF2. I own one and bought the infiniti as a commuter. It checks all the boxes I listed above and then some. LS engine platform has TONS of aftermarket support and they can be built to stupid power levels and they're sleepers, VERY reliable very comfy and have quite a bit of tech in the car. You can even get them in a manual. With simple bolt ons (long tube headers, exhaust, intake) and custom tune I've got 420HP at the wheels on mine.

I can see the BM 5 series. The M5 has been regarded as the ultimate saloon / sedan back in England since the first year it was available. The trouble with Mercedes and Audi are all the low quality plastic parts in the engine bay - (covers and even hoses!). They cost a bloody fortune after they break - and they DO. The Maserati Quattroporte is my fav saloon car but it's very well known for unreliability and constant repairs. Which leads me to my philosophy on buying a car.
1) a new car - do NOT buy any new cars - just lease so that maintenance / repairs are not on you, then give it back and NEVER purchase at lease end. Any new luxury car will lose at least 1/2 it's value after 5 years. That's a huge loss if you paid the new car price and try to trade / sell. You lose less on a lease because you pay only for the years you use (3 years of value instead of 100% value new) - the repairs and maintenance as well as the low resale value becomes the dealer's problem.
2) a used car - get a warranty to last long as possible and trade / sell near the end of warranty. Any late model car is going to be a money pit after 60k miles or 4 years.
I also advise against any of the new little engines with turbos, direct injection, etc. I don't care what they claim, that much pressure and stress on a little engine will never last as long as a V6 or V8 without a turbo or GDI. I am already expecting to buy the extended warranty on the Misses' Q60 when the time comes and we run full synthetic Mobil 1 with a K&N oil filter every 3,000 miles in spite of the recommended interval.

I will never get a German car due to the crippling never ending maintenance of ownership of these awesome cars

I really do like them and they are real affordable on the used market but I don’t like the repair costs.

Do we know if It’s all the M56 models that have this issue it is it mostly with the 2011?

Andy

Malbec 56 Beast wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:58 pm

I will never get a German car due to the crippling never ending maintenance of ownership of these awesome cars

I really do like them and they are real affordable on the used market but I don’t like the repair costs.

Do we know if It’s all the M56 models that have this issue it is it mostly with the 2011?

Andy

Most of the feedback I've seen here and on other sites seem to be indicative of the 2011 models...maybe because it was the 1st year production, and/or they are the ones that are coming up in the higher mileage category. The 2012 and 1013 models may start having issues once they reach the mileage that the 2011's are at now. Mine is a 2012, and I am so close to 110k miles. It's been a great car so far, and even with the engine issues that have recently cropped up on this site and online, I plan on keeping mine for now. Like previously mentioned, most folks (including me) bought these cars used, the damage may have been already done, you really don't know if the previous owners did their due diligence even though the cars were serviced regularly, it's what's checked in between that really counts. If they didn't check the oil level in between and the dipstick was dry (someone mentioned that that happened to them somewhere on this forum) then its possible that the damage was done. I noticed that the low oil light does not come on even if the dipstick is dry, so folks may have assumed that all was good so they didn't bother to check. I know because it happened to me once and only once when I first got my car. Also, Nissan is constantly upgrading parts like the HPFP that seems to be an issue. Yes if you look that part up it has been redesigned. Maybe the newer models have the upgraded one.



Yeah the German cars are nice. As far as V8 sedans, the Mercedes E550, the BWM 550 and Audi A7 come to mind as comparable in size and performance. The M5 is a high performance variant 5 series, and it's not really fair to compare that to an M56. The Audi RS6 would be more comparable in performance than the A6. barbastard mentioned the Chevy SS as a domestic option, plus there is also the Dodge Charger SRT/Scat Pack if American muscle is an option. The Genesis G80 and G90 seem to be nice V8 options, and the Lexus GS-F is also comparable.

Forgot....used Lexus IS-F is also an option. I explored those for a while before settling on the M37S.

What's the power difference between the M56/37.

I know the numbers but what does it feel like I'm comparison. Might need to drive one next weekend

Malbec 56 Beast wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:51 pm

What's the power difference between the M56/37.

I know the numbers but what does it feel like I'm comparison. Might need to drive one next weekend

I've driven a Q70 3.7 as a loaner. I believe the transmission is the same but the rear differential is geared lower than the 5.6 so that helps with the acceleration. I can still tell a difference but it's more subtle and not a neck snapping difference. When you load the 3.7 with 4 adults and luggage, and turn the A/C on you can tell the difference vs the V8.

Since there is a lot more aftermarket performance parts, plus a tune, you can probably get close or even pass V8 specs. You should drive one and see for yourself.

Here's my online calculator to chart speeds in each gear--the default settings are for the M37, however you can select the rear-end and tire sizes to meet what you've got (it also has selections for 370Z trannies and final drives):

http://www.paladinmicro.com/SpeedInGearCalc-M37.htm


This one calculates how much HP it take to hold steady at a given speed;

http://www.paladinmicro.com/HPvsSpeedCalc-M37.htm


These are both modified versions of calculators I have used for nearly 15 years with Mustangs--they have proven to be surprisingly accurate...

I can vouch for needing to check the oil level. I had to add 2 quarts the other day

I hope this is allowed, but if you need new parts, I've found that this infiniti dealership sells parts at a pretty good discount:
https://www.discountinfinitiparts.com

Malbec 56 Beast wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:30 pm

Larz

I'm hoping that the light that was put on this issue have me a little hope and I may keep the car.

I have it up for sale in a local online site so I'm not 100% wanting to sell. I will continue to monitor the fuel pump and go from there.

I was thinking of Lexus myself but they are pricey so I was thinking about the Infiniti Q50 3.0T or a red sport but I don't know much about either one so I'll jump on their forum and do some looking around.

My concern with my car is how quick the oil becomes dirty. The dealer is using Mobil one full syn but it is way dirty or more than what I experienced with the G37xS I owned.

Let me know if you all have the same issue with the oil becoming dirty with a full syn.

I do my oil changes at Infiniti about every 4-5kmi.
It doesn't seem to go down a lot but maybe between the full and add lines, sometimes closet to the ad.

Thanks
Andy

From browsing through several oil forums, a dirty looking visible signature is a typical characteristic of full synthetic. As long as there isn't any metal shavings or other abnormal materials in the drained oil, you're good to go. The V8 is a DI engine, vs the G37, so that alone will make your oil more dirty.

I just changed mine last night at 110k; it was black as coal but other than that, it was fine. (5k)

FWIW, since I replaced my PCV valves, I'm trapping way less oil than I was before. I barely covered the bottom of a 1/4 measuring cup after 2500 miles, from both catch cans. I do need to disassemble the cans to make sure the stainless steel mesh diffuser material is not clogged. I don't think it is, or else I would probably get a DTC. I am contemplating going back to the original PCV set up.

Thanks Army,

I appreciate the news. Knock on wood the car is running great and smooth as butter. I'm getting my snow tires put on my car tomorrow before winter really comes around the corner and it takes ten hours to get them installed on the car. I drive to work on occasion and they aren't real good at clearing the roads and it's a 95 mile round trip so I don't mess around. I've always ran two sets of wheels and tires since the early 80's. I just like the peace of mind and the control I have running a dedicated at. Plus they scratch your wheels and it costs almost $100 per time. So it is a $200 cost every year.

I get (3) full synthetic oil changes with tire rotation and waking of the car at my Infiniti dealer for $90-100 for all three. Never thought it would be cheap like that at the dealer so I take advantage of it every year.

Andy

Malbec 56 Beast wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:11 pm

Thanks Army,

I appreciate the news. Knock on wood the car is running great and smooth as butter. I'm getting my snow tires put on my car tomorrow before winter really comes around the corner and it takes ten hours to get them installed on the car. I drive to work on occasion and they aren't real good at clearing the roads and it's a 95 mile round trip so I don't mess around. I've always ran two sets of wheels and tires since the early 80's. I just like the peace of mind and the control I have running a dedicated at. Plus they scratch your wheels and it costs almost $100 per time. So it is a $200 cost every year.

I get (3) full synthetic oil changes with tire rotation and waking of the car at my Infiniti dealer for $90-100 for all three. Never thought it would be cheap like that at the dealer so I take advantage of it every year.

Andy

No worries. Personally you should keep your car; you have a unique model xS and the Malbec color, plus your's is a '13 model. As far as the HPFP, you probably have the upgraded part, plus being a '13 model, a lot of the issues that seem to plaque the earlier models may not even manifest.

Keep doing like you're doing, pay attention to the dipstick in between oil changes, air filters, and yep the gas mileage. It will be a little less in the cooler months, as cold air is more dense, so you'll use more gas. If your fuel pump starts acting up, I'm sure your gas mileage will go down plus you performance too. You'd be surprised how many folks will keep driving the car anyways. Larz mentioned using a good quality fuel, and he may be on to something there. I switched from BP 93 to the Shell 93 V power gas a while back. I have a little over 1000 miles since I switched, and the P0420 code that has randomly shown its face has not popped up, so I am excited about that.

EdBwoy wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:18 am

I found more info on that high mileage M56.

The high pressure fuel pump was replaced one time, at 273K miles. A thousand miles later, the timing cover had to be replaced due to the HPFP lifter.
It seems logical to me that paying attention to your car and raising/addressing issues when they come up will keep the car running healthy without incurring unnecessary expenses.

I found another high mileage 2011 M56 RWD, parted out on Ebay:

265,345k miles, RWD, VIN JN1AY1AP6BM520667, white QX1 color code.

The seller had a set of air cleaner intake boxes. They came complete (both halves) with MAF sensors and K&N filters.

When I first bought my car, I had drilled a series of holes in the outer halves to increase air intake. I decided to go back to the original set up, so I found these complete units for less than half of what just a new outer half costs.

FWIW, the K&N filters that were in the intake boxes were extremely oily and so dirty that the pleats were hardly visible. I don't see how that car was able to get any air.

I guess my questions regarding both of these high mileage cars are this:

1. Are both motors original, or did they at one time experience failures and were replaced or rebuilt?

2. Are the other drivetrain components original (transmission, rear diff, etc.) This would speak volumes as to powertrain longivity.

I have to wonder if the HPFP lifter, fuel pump and engine failures all go back to the one common denominator - lack of proper oil maintenance.

armybrat wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:54 am

EdBwoy wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:18 am

I found more info on that high mileage M56.

The high pressure fuel pump was replaced one time, at 273K miles. A thousand miles later, the timing cover had to be replaced due to the HPFP lifter.
It seems logical to me that paying attention to your car and raising/addressing issues when they come up will keep the car running healthy without incurring unnecessary expenses.

I found another high mileage 2011 M56 RWD, parted out on Ebay:

265,345k miles, RWD, VIN JN1AY1AP6BM520667, white QX1 color code.

The seller had a set of air cleaner intake boxes. They came complete (both halves) with MAF sensors and s.

When I first bought my car, I had drilled a series of holes in the outer halves to increase air intake. I decided to go back to the original set up, so I found these complete units for less than half of what just a new outer half costs.

FWIW, the s that were in the intake boxes were extremely oily and so dirty that the pleats were hardly visible. I don't see how that car was able to get any air.

I guess my questions regarding both of these high mileage cars are this:

1. Are both motors original, or did they at one time experience failures and were replaced or rebuilt?

2. Are the other drivetrain components original (transmission, rear diff, etc.) This would speak volumes as to powertrain longivity.

I have to wonder if the HPFP lifter, fuel pump and engine failures all go back to the one common denominator - lack of proper oil maintenance.

Are you saying that the fuel pump was damaged due to lack of oil?

reggiebrown40 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:50 pm

Are you saying that the fuel pump was damaged due to lack of oil?

I'm saying it's possible. All this was initially brought on by the timing chain rubbing on the oil jet, causing lack of lube on the lifter valve. Combination of that and the HPFP pushrod wearing on the lifter valve with less than normal lube, so much so that it was wearing directly on the cam lobe. So yeah, maybe lack of oil indirectly damaged it.

EdBwoy wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:18 am

I found more info on that high mileage M56.

The high pressure fuel pump was replaced one time, at 273K miles. A thousand miles later, the timing cover had to be replaced due to the HPFP lifter.
It seems logical to me that paying attention to your car and raising/addressing issues when they come up will keep the car running healthy without incurring unnecessary expenses.

I respectfully disagree. I believe that many of us have voiced our concerns with Infiniti on the ticking, tapping, hesitation, poor idling issues only to be met with a "this is normal" -"no issue found" response. At least I know I have. Assuming I have no technical automotive background it is fair to say that I've done all an owner should be expected to do. I believe at one point you felt that something else was in play in regards to the engine failures. Not sure what changed your stance.

R.

reggiebrown40 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:42 pm

EdBwoy wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:18 am

I found more info on that high mileage M56.

The high pressure fuel pump was replaced one time, at 273K miles. A thousand miles later, the timing cover had to be replaced due to the HPFP lifter.
It seems logical to me that paying attention to your car and raising/addressing issues when they come up will keep the car running healthy without incurring unnecessary expenses.

I respectfully disagree. I believe that many of us have voiced our concerns with Infiniti on the ticking, tapping, hesitation, poor idling issues only to be met with a "this is normal" -"no issue found" response. At least I know I have. Assuming I have no technical automotive background it is fair to say that I've done all an owner should be expected to do. I believe at one point you felt that something else was in play in regards to the engine failures. Not sure what changed your stance.

R.

Reggie,
The context of the quoted text above was in response to Malbec saying he wants to sell his car because 2-3 people (at the time) had mentioned engine failures related to the HPFP here. My advice was for him to remain a good steward of his vehicle and be attentive to it, and things should go well. Hence the statement, "...It seems logical to me that paying attention to your car and raising/addressing issues when they come up will keep the car running healthy without incurring unnecessary expenses."

Now, I agree that sometimes you do all you can and the car still screws you over. I agree that you do not need to have an automotive engineering degree to operate a passenger vehicle, but if an owner isn't going to take the vehicle to the dealership to maintain the vehicle their way at their recommended intervals, then the owner better do their darndest best to do more than the minimum in maintaining the vehicle; that includes frequent oil level checks & top ups in the case of the VK56VD among other proactive approaches.
Not that following their recommendations to the Tee will guarantee longevity to 100%, but it sure lends a crutch if things go sideways.
I wasn't digging for dirt, but in going through the entire thread to refresh my memory as to why I said that, I came upon this quote:

reggiebrown40 wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:59 pm

...
I understand. I mean, if I had the insight I have now 6 months ago, I would have sold. Hindsight is always 20/20. The only issue I see is there is no way to tell what damage has already been done internally to your motor. At this point you may be putting ketchup on a burnt steak. Remember, I had no warning signs of engine failure until about six months ago when the engine started tapping lightly. At that point I thought it was the heat shield or something else muffler related.

It is honestly commendable that you were perceptive enough to note that the car was acting different, but on one hand someone could ask why the assumption was made that it was exhaust related, and why nothing had been done in 6 months.
On the other hand, we can respond that for a vehicle that we have been told that all manner of engine noises are normal, how were we supposed to know that this specific tapping was to be treated more urgently than the groaning, mooing, rattling & whining of everyday?
These are just my objective observations going on.



***
Actually, my stance has not changed. I asked this question back in 2016, way before I bought my first M56 and I still stand by it, until I get positive affirmation of the negative:

EdBwoy wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:54 am

armybrat wrote: ...
As far as taking your car in for the recall work, only way to get a new engine is if the oil jet hole is too deep. They check it with a go-no go hole gauge pin. If it goes in more than 3mm, they replace the engine. AFAIK, I haven't heard of anyone getting a new motor.

[There was a photo attached here - thanks Photobucket]
Armybrat, I found your other post on the oil jet, thanks for the pic. I pretty much make repair/replace decisions for a living so that's my angle. What worries me is that Infiniti is letting some engines get the work done but which will suffer accelerated wear. I don't know how deep the gauge should go in a new engine. 1mm, 2mm, 3mm? I have no idea.BlackCat, would you have this info?
Say if the gauge would only go into the hole 1+/-0.5mm from the factory. Then they test an engine during the recall work and find the hole depth at 2mm. Why wouldn't they consider that an off-spec engine? Would it have any ill effects to oil circulation or performance? Maybe their tolerance for the holes from the factory is upto 3mm anyway, then my concerns are irrelevant.

One reason my crusading against Infiniti hasn't been as evident in public is due to the lack of support I get on such matters. Most times I try to lean on a technical topic for the benefit of the community, I am met with disinterest or in some cases, plain pushback. I know you and I have communicated privately, and I appreciate that, along with the various ways a few other members have worked with me at little-to-no financial gain on their end.

I am not absolving Infiniti of any responsibility, but since they have told us to kick rocks, I was hoping we could come together to figure out exactly what they did wrong, and what we can do to buy us time. I mean, we are not too far removed from the VK45DE of the Infniti M45. It started out as an admired powerplant due to its performance, to being dubbed "very unreliable" due to the apparent oil issues, and now we are back to people loving it and throwing it into various swaps due to the renewed appreciation. Credit goes to a lot of different people who have been working to make ownership of these engines seem less mysterious.

To that end, I am still working on the VK56VD engines. I kept hanging around people's engine failure threads like a vulture, but ultimately found it easier to handle this a different way. That's why I have 3 Infiniti M56s to my name parked at my residence. One has 294K on the clock with a damaged engine, hopefully with teardown to begin soon because I want V8 owners to not have to worry about unnecessary stuff:

• Longevity of the timing chain recall repair
• High pressure fuel pumps
• Catalytic converters
• Excessive oil consumption
• whatever else we get to learn with time

If I find any obvious design flaws, then I will be better equipped to confront Infiniti, but until then, I prefer to sit down gathering evidence. I am also saying that statistically speaking, good maintenance practices will keep our cars running longer despite any screw-ups by Infiniti.

Unfortunately you didn't respond directly back to the OP so I interpreted or mis-interpreted your statement as a blanket statement towards all owners. If that's the case then it was a simple misunderstanding. No harm done.

In regards to your second post - tapping, lightly or heavily is a sign of a failing motor. Doesn't matter when i take it in - 6 months or yesterday, the timer is ticking on that motor. Your options at that point are to put heavier weigh oil or additives in and to drive your "fast" car "slow."
The issue I was having is/was two-fold -- Heat shield and motor knock. Given that Infiniti's push-back is so prominent I am now reluctant to taking my car in for fear of them making matters worse or simply not finding the problem.

The screw up by infiniti in regards to the timing chain is what started all of this mess. If you see my car it has 84K miles and is in immaculate condition, other than the motor. I am not abusive to the motor and I routinely change the oil every 3k -3.5K miles. I believe the motor was damaged by issues related to the timing chain recall and will stand by that until proven otherwise. I'm patiently waiting for you to tear down your blown motor to see what you find. I think based on your previous video where you replaced the lifter on the HPFP (yes, I watch your youtube channel) that you will find more than a bad HPFP.


P.S. I met resistance when I challenged the house-tech on the timing belt initially. I said I question everything and didn't necessarily agree that the sole issue at hand was the failing timing belt. I stepped aside and let things play out and now more failures have occurred, some reporting the HPFP, but nothing 100% definitive. In my opinion when random things start failing it's usually a case of poor design. Maybe the failures stop with me. Only time will tell.

Regards,

R